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Grado MF-3 P-Mount to 1/2" Adapter

boreas

"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Somewhere along the way I picked up a Grado MF-3 cartridge with a nackered stylus. It's a P-mount based on what's now the Prestige body and has "ears" integrated into it, just like those on the Prestige, so you can mount it to a 1/2" headshell without any sort of adapter. Grado, however, chose to complicate matters by designing a "tonearm decoupler" which was to be inserted between the cartridge and headshell, providing for only 3 points of contact between the two pieces: one at each of the mounting bolts and a third center front on the cartridge. This can be seen http://www.vinylengine.com/library/grado/m-series.shtml.

This still leaves the connecting pins unaddressed. Conventional P-mount pins are considerably smaller in diameter than those on a 1/2" cartridge. Grado's solution to this was to provide little slip-on "sleeves" that fit over the existing pins and "fattened them up" to the size needed for regular headshell wire connectors.

Needless to say, both these sleeves and the tonearm decoupler long ago became NLA. I confirmed this through an email to Grado. I also asked John if mounting the cartridge directly, without the decoupler, or with the use of a conventional P-mount adapter was advisable. He said it wasn't and suggested (of course) that I buy a new cartridge from current production.

Well, based on this information, I essentially punted and tossed the cartridge into the box containing my ragtag collection of orphaned cartridges but, with a fair amount of downtime over the holidays, I started looking for little projects. The Grado got the nod.

I essentially ruled out the use of a regular P-mount adapter because a: the mounting holes in the adapter didn't line up with those in the Grado body (figures) and b: using the adapter would increase the inherent VTA of the cartridge and c: I reasoned that, since the body is the same in all important respects to the current Prestige line, mounting the MF-3 directly would result in the same situation as that currently recommended by Grado.

But what about the pins? I couldn't find anything at my local electronics supplier that would serve in place of Grado's sleeves. There are those in a P-mount adapter, of course, but I doubt that you could remove the pins without destroying them.

That left modifying the standard P-mount adapter as seemingly the best option, so I did. Basically, I cut away everything but the back portion of the adapter and beveled the top surface of what remained so that it only the cartridge and not the adapter contacts the headshell. The modified adapter I ended up with weighs 0.7g, making the total installed weight of the cartridge 7.2g.

Photos attached. I'd love some feedback from those of you more familiar with Grados (I'm not at all) as to whether this is a viable approach. If it's not, then I won't bother with a new stylus but if it is, maybe it'll help someone else facing a similar situation.

Thanks!

John
 

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Did you ever get your MF3 working? How do you like it? I have one on an old Technics SL-D2 that I am considering putting into service.
 
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Did you ever get your MF3 working? How do you like it? I have one on an old Technics SL-D2 that I am considering putting into service.

No, never did. Sorry. I've still got it and also an F3+ with a bum stylus. One of these days I'll get a Blue stylus and check both of them out.

Since you've resurrected this old thread, it occurs to me to ask the Grado experts out there whether the F3+ and MF3 bodies are electrically close enough that their characteristics would be the same or nearly so. If that's the case, it would make sense for me to keep the MF3 as a P-mount and remove the modified adapter. :dunno:

John
 
Could this be that decoupler? I always thought it was just an extra weight since it weighs exactly 1 gram. It came with a ½" mount Grado on a thrift find.

picture.php
 
Could this be that decoupler? I always thought it was just an extra weight since it weighs exactly 1 gram. It came with a ½" mount Grado on a thrift find.

Yes, it is. I'd love to hear your impressions of that cartridge with and without the decoupler.

John
 
Yes, it is. I'd love to hear your impressions of that cartridge with and without the decoupler.

John

Grado supplied those with carts up through the early 90's. They aren't needed. I've played my 8MZ with and without it.....since sold the decoupler to somebody about 4 years ago that just couldn't live without one. ehh.:scratch2:

to your other question about bodies.....the F seris body should have around 700 ohm motors in it, the M series 485-490 range. The F series will have a slightly deeper sound field, the M series slightly shorter but slightly wider.

Think sitting mid-theater for the F series, 4 rows back from stage for the M series.

Don't waste your time with a blue stylus........wait till I get to send you this 8MZ to try.
 
Think sitting mid-theater for the F series, 4 rows back from stage for the M series.

Thanks, Marc. That's a very clear analogy.

Don't waste your time with a blue stylus........wait till I get to send you this 8MZ to try.

Right! I'd forgotten about that. It'll be fun trying that out in both these bodies. Thanks again for including me and thanks for the tip on the Blue.

John
 
Can you tell me how you cut up the P-mount adapter? Looks like you got very clean cuts.

I'm about to butcher one myself in an attempt to convert a Beogram 4004 to P-mount and haven't worked out a good way to cut it to the shape I need.
 
Can you tell me how you cut up the P-mount adapter? Looks like you got very clean cuts.

Japanese razor saw, I think, followed by sandpaper. Use a fine enough grit and the piece looks as if it were made that way.

Good luck on that project!

John
 
Marc, I have a ZF3 'P' mount. I assume the 8MZ stylus will work in it should someone offer a loaner to test-drive?
 
Marc, I have a ZF3 'P' mount. I assume the 8MZ stylus will work in it should someone offer a loaner to test-drive?

Hi Buddy,

Actually I'm sending an 8MZ cartridge (*original signature 8 body with 8MZ stylus*) to Beatcomber this week so he can compare it against his Gold-1. Then the whole cart will be shipped off to you to play in your HK. Then it's off to Boreas. I would prefer the stylus stay in the body. The cart should give all of you a pretty good idea of the "flavor" should any of you decide to upgrade an existing body with the 8MZ stylus.


* the original signature 8 body was 700 ohm/55mH. This is electrically the same specs as the F and G bodies. Albeit better matched coils.

The ZF3 body you have would be comparable to the "Red" body DaveyW used to record samples on his site with an 8MZ stylus. Your coils should measure 475ohm/45mH.
 
Actually I'm sending an 8MZ cartridge (*original signature 8 body with 8MZ stylus*)...... I would prefer the stylus stay in the body.

Ah! I feel a lot better about this. I thought you were sending just the stylus. Removing Grado styli from the cartridge body can be a bit tricky and I was understandably nervous about the job since it involved someone else's (your) stylus.

John
 
You may have the decoupler if you're still curious.

Thanks for the offer but I think a stylus first, no? ;) Actually, since marcmorin indicated that they were essentially useless (and since I had more or less concluded that on my own), I think I'll pass on your generous offer.

John
 
No worries then, I will leave it as-is. I actually still have a stylus puller but can't find any of the stylus guards, dunno where they go.


Hi Buddy,

Actually I'm sending an 8MZ cartridge (*original signature 8 body with 8MZ stylus*) to Beatcomber this week so he can compare it against his Gold-1. Then the whole cart will be shipped off to you to play in your HK. Then it's off to Boreas. I would prefer the stylus stay in the body. The cart should give all of you a pretty good idea of the "flavor" should any of you decide to upgrade an existing body with the 8MZ stylus.


* the original signature 8 body was 700 ohm/55mH. This is electrically the same specs as the F and G bodies. Albeit better matched coils.

The ZF3 body you have would be comparable to the "Red" body DaveyW used to record samples on his site with an 8MZ stylus. Your coils should measure 475ohm/45mH.
 
Marc, where would an F3+ body fit into the heirarchy of Grado? I have a body with no stylus. Considering the 8MZ since I hear much good about it, but I don't want to put a better stylus on than I'm actually going to be able to make use of.
 
to your other question about bodies.....the F seris body should have around 700 ohm motors in it, the M series 485-490 range. The F series will have a slightly deeper sound field, the M series slightly shorter but slightly wider.

Playing with my new toy, I decided to check DCR and inductance on these two bodies. Here's what I get:

MF3
DCR: 765 ohms L, 764 ohms R
Ind: 87mH L, 86mH R

F3+
DCR: 721 L, 728 R
Ind: 74mH L, 72mH R

This squares fairly well with the info in the VinylEngine's Cartridge Database. It puts the DCR for the MF3 at 800 ohms and inductance at 55mH. The F3+ is put at 700 ohms DCR and 55mH inductance. So DCR is quite close but inductance is off by 50 or 60%. :dunno:

John
 
Playing with my new toy, I decided to check DCR and inductance on these two bodies. Here's what I get:

MF3
DCR: 765 ohms L, 764 ohms R
Ind: 87mH L, 86mH R

F3+
DCR: 721 L, 728 R
Ind: 74mH L, 72mH R

This squares fairly well with the info in the VinylEngine's Cartridge Database. It puts the DCR for the MF3 at 800 ohms and inductance at 55mH. The F3+ is put at 700 ohms DCR and 55mH inductance. So DCR is quite close but inductance is off by 50 or 60%. :dunno:


John

Odd. Second odd thing......The only M series body I owned was an M-1. (morphed into silver) Those coils measured 485 a side. Sorry if I gave bad info earlier. Seems that within a series production run in those years, Grado did a little more than just closer tolerance coils as one moved up the food chain.

The inductance measurements are still so low that cable and input capacitance is meaningless.
 
Marc, where would an F3+ body fit into the heirarchy of Grado? I have a body with no stylus. Considering the 8MZ since I hear much good about it, but I don't want to put a better stylus on than I'm actually going to be able to make use of.

My best answer, and this might get a little long but I want the information to be the best I can give. The 8MZ stylus will extract a lot more micro information, and reach futher up and further down in the frequency(s) than the "exact" replacement stylus for your body. Will an upper-crust body make a difference as well? Yes, and there was a thread on that subject some months ago. The other posters had been using the 8MZ on a bottom barrel Black body. With good results. But the question was will the upper bodies make a difference. I sent out an M-1 body to one AK member, and a NOS P mount G2 body to another member. They didn't send them back :thmbsp:.
Did the body make as much difference as the stylus change to the lower bodies?.....Ummm no. But still a discernible quality difference was heard.
The write up DaveyW gives for the 8MZ sylus is in a body near yours in the product line. With the caveat that I mentioned earlier. To me, in my system, the older higher internal res/inductance bodies exhibit a deeper soundstage front to back with you the listener being mid auditorium vs the later bodies which put you closer to the stage. Some might call that recessed vs forward.
To more directly answer your "unstated" question.....I have to answer with a question. Why spend 3/4 of the money to get 1/2 the music out of the body you have? :scratch2:
 
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