GRADO Vs Audio Technica

[dwaller131]

I have had the opposite experience with my Grado G1+ on a Denon DP-1200. It sounds head and shoulders above either the AT or Ortofon carts I have had on it and the Pioneer ttl I have. The Grado imo has much better midrange and vocal presence and the highs are very crisp and pronounced without being harsh. The AT less so but in comparison the Ortofon was just plan not listenable. Hoping to try an OM-30 soon and see how it compares to the previous cart.

This is why both are still in business
In fairness, last night I wound up mounting a 1/2" adapter to my Rotel RP850 and listened to both of these carts on there (versus the old p-mount table). The Grado fares much better here (the low end of these carts is so sweet), but still suffers that nagging IGD (even after realigning it a few times, trying different protractors). The AT cart does sound a little thin compared to the Grado, but no IGD whatsoever. But everyone's ears are different, which is why audio is so much fun for many of us!

To answer the OP, I'd get a Grado stylus and see how you like it before plunging into a whole new cartridge.

EDIT: You'll eventually wind up with more than one cartridge because, well, it just happens: "Wonder how this one sounds?".

 

[beatcomber]

Re: Grado mistracking...

Assuming alignment is correct, mistracking again indicates an arm mismatch. Yes, they can be fussy.

Grados are not particularly universal, but when the match is right, they can be pretty special.

 

[chris_f]

This is why both are still in business
In fairness, last night I wound up mounting a 1/2" adapter to my Rotel RP850 and listened to both of these carts on there (versus the old p-mount table). The Grado fares much better here (the low end of these carts is so sweet), but still suffers that nagging IGD (even after realigning it a few times, trying different protractors). The AT cart does sound a little thin compared to the Grado, but no IGD whatsoever. But everyone's ears are different, which is why audio is so much fun for many of us!

To answer the OP, I'd get a Grado stylus and see how you like it before plunging into a whole new cartridge.

EDIT: You'll eventually wind up with more than one cartridge because, well, it just happens: "Wonder how this one sounds?".

Exactly. Any why many people who stroll down the rabbit hole even end up using different carts based on the musical selection. One cart sounds better with classical, vocals and acoustic performances, something else sounds better for heavy rock or electronic music, etc. Its all in fun

 

[marcmorin]

I have had the opposite experience with my Grado G1+ on a Denon DP-1200. It sounds head and shoulders above either the AT or Ortofon carts I have had on it and the Pioneer ttl I have. The Grado imo has much better midrange and vocal presence and the highs are very crisp and pronounced without being harsh. The AT less so but in comparison the Ortofon was just plan not listenable. Hoping to try an OM-30 soon and see how it compares to the previous cart.

well, the G-1+ is a bit special to begin with as a stylus. It gets even more special if it's in the black body with the silver coils. However, the compliance of that stylus is pretty high, so it will like a fair amount of arm damping. Which I believe your Denon 1200 has.

 

[dwaller131]

Re: Grado mistracking...

Assuming alignment is correct, mistracking again indicates an arm mismatch. Yes, they can be fussy.

Grados are not particularly universal, but when the match is right, they can be pretty special.

I love the sound I'm getting from my Gold cart, UNTIL the final 2-3 minutes of an album side. Then I get sad

Also, is it common for Grados to have less output, volume-wise, than other carts?

 

[chris_f]

I love the sound I'm getting from my Gold cart, UNTIL the final 2-3 minutes of an album side. Then I get sad

Also, is it common for Grados to have less output, volume-wise, than other carts?

Mine did until I got it loaded down, glad BrocLuno and marcmorin prompted me to do it. I had to load mine down to 16K to get a good balance but it picked up volume and there is a subtle but very pronounced increase in definition. Of course in my case that was coming from the Ortofon which I absolutely hate now that I have listened to something else.

 

[marcmorin]

I love the sound I'm getting from my Gold cart, UNTIL the final 2-3 minutes of an album side. Then I get sad

Also, is it common for Grados to have less output, volume-wise, than other carts?

what alignment are you using? Depending upon which Grado cart it is, as they produced (in the plastic bodies) anything from 1.5mv to 5mv
The Gold body should be 5mv

 

[dwaller131]

what alignment are you using? Depending upon which Grado cart it is, as they produced (in the plastic bodies) anything from 1.5mv to 5mv
The Gold body should be 5mv

I've done the Berwald, the Stevenson, and then a mirror-device thingie I got from LPGear. Seems the mirror-thing works best, as IGD is less there than with the others. Also, the others are paper, so I'm not too sure of their (or my) accuracy

I have the gold body. The output isn't dramatically different, as I only noticed it when I was recording an LP to Cd and saw that even though I had jacked the record level as high as it would go, it was still not getting near the optimum setting. (For example, with the AT cart, I can record somewhere in the 8-9.0+ db level. The Grado requires the max of 12.0+db to achieve the same level).

 

[NOMTW]

UPDATE: I got an old Audio Technica P-Mount relatively cheap, put a new stylus on it, and it sounds pretty similar to the grado, the only differences being that its a bit louder than the grado (which i like) and theres more treble. I did get a new stylus for the grado and it also sounds really nice, but i think id like to use it more for classical or jazz records than hard rock or pop music, since it does have a warmer, less detailed sound

 

[Wirehead]

UPDATE: I got an old Audio Technica P-Mount relatively cheap, put a new stylus on it, ...

Yep - that's the way to go. The only way to have lots of stylus options.. You can go from conical, to sharp nude ellipticals, JICO Shibata's, to boron/microline or berylium fine line.. That's a winner right there!

 

[mjw21a]

It's P mount, so the AT120 won't fit.

An AT120EP would fit just fine. I sold mine a year ago. Having said that I've never really enjoyed Audio Technica carts although I think the AT3482P with carbon cantilever and conical stylus is surprisingly good for the price. I can't comment on Grado as I've never tried one of their products mount carts.

 

[ETI_5000]

Re: Grado mistracking...

Assuming alignment is correct, mistracking again indicates an arm mismatch.

As an engineer, I don't agree that it always means that.

In fact, my experience, as someone with a database of approximately 250 tonearm/cartridge resonance combinations, is that Grado cartridges invariably have the largest resonance of any cartridge brand, which is why I'm not surprised they have problems with mistracking. Of the four Grado cartridges I've got resonance peak measurements for, all of them are above the average resonance, and three are by far the worst (17dB, 17dB and 21dB. That's terrible, and all three were more than twice as bad as the average. That's why they track terribly on un-damped tonearms on less-than-perfect records. Now, as you know, an average has to be made up of high and low samples, but the Grado cartridges stand out in my database as the only brand which is consistently bad, and worse than average (the ideal resonance is zero, for the best tracking).

One of those measured was a current-model Grado measured within the last year, while the others were measured in the 1980's, but they seem to still have the same problem of a very undamped cantilever. Perhaps it may produce exciting sound to some ears, but it also causes problems with tracking and.less-than-perfect fidelity, as the cantilever isn't being controlled properly by what's on the record.

 

[Wirehead]

Can you link to that sheet? Valuable info - I'm curious if it's consistent with what my ears hear

 

[dutchflea]

Count me in on that database too, yes please.

 

[bluemooze]

This is incredible. I've just read through here and seen each cartridge described in opposite terms. Not to each other, but to itself. Amazing.

 

[mjw21a]

This is incredible. I've just read through here and seen each cartridge described in opposite terms. Not to each other, but to itself. Amazing.

Not too surprising. We all hear things differently. Different bodies and different brains to process the sounds. I believe this is why everyone prefers something different in their component mix.

 

[kirk57]

Having had Grado MCZ, 8Mz, GTE+1, I decided I prefer AT cartridges.
Started with AT71, and now at the at150mlz/ AT OC9-II plateau.

I suppose part of it depends on your room and system, but I ended up finding the Grado sound a bit lifeless. Happier now with the AT sound. It wasn't due to poor setup or arm mismatch, either.

 

[marcmorin]

One of those measured was a current-model Grado measured within the last year, while the others were measured in the 1980's, but they seem to still have the same problem of a very undamped cantilever. Perhaps it may produce exciting sound to some ears, but it also causes problems with tracking and.less-than-perfect fidelity, as the cantilever isn't being controlled properly by what's on the record.

It's an indication of the restorative forces put back into the cartridge suspension system (and when) from the arm. Followed by the restorative forces of the suspension system (and when) back into the arm.

 

[ETI_5000]

Can you link to that sheet? Valuable info - I'm curious if it's consistent with what my ears hear

If I knew how to do an online database, I would, but I don't. It's in an MS Access file at the moment.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

The no brainer option is the utter bargain AT92ECD, around $25 delivered, for a
0.3x0.7 elliptical that tracks very well at standard TP4 weights, around 1.3 to 1.5 g.
(I've fitted several to TP4 and lighter arms decks, it really is super good for the price.)

For twice the price you can get a bottom level Grado stylus, which relatively
will sound somewhat warmer with a bouncy bass and not much real treble,
possible hum issues and dubious tracking margins at standard TP4 weights.

rgds, sreten.

You are being faced with a load of contradictory opinions and quite frankly
some technical garbage regarding arm matching affecting Grado's. It is
quite the other way round for TP4, the cartridge should match the arm.