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Grado

cason

AK Subscriber
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I’ve been a fan of Grado cartridges for about thirty years. I played in the Silver and Gold arena for a number of years before moving up to the Reference Platinum. I know, “Grado hum,” “Grado dance,” but I’ve always had turntables that were not affected by these issues, although the Technics SL-1200Mk II does require fluid damping to tame the dance. I have and use other cartridges, Shure M91 with fine line tip, Ortofon 2M Blue, Denon DL-110, Sumiko Oyster among others. But there’s something just downright pleasing and satisfying about Grado’s interpretation of the phono pick-up. It’s always just a GOOD listen. So, where am I going with this? Well, my dear wife gave me a Grado Sonata 3 for my birthday, Dec. 7, and I will tell you I am truly enjoying this step up in the Grado line. I won’t call it a giant leap above the Platinum, but it’s a notable and pleasing improvement, at least to me, in all the qualities by which we grade phono cartridges. It’s quiet, it’s lush, vocals and acoustic instruments have very real tones and textures, but it can rock electric when you want it to. Mine is not broken in good yet but I’m very pleased and I just felt like giving Grado a big thumbs up. :thumbsup:
 
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I was just revisiting a Grado Silver (not sure whether 1 or 2) the last day or so. I agree that Grado has a great tone and I appreciate that they're made in the US. I'm tempted by the Prestige3 line but haven't bought one yet. Thanks for the post on Grado, which doesn't get discussed as much on AK as in the past.
 
I was just revisiting a Grado Silver (not sure whether 1 or 2) the last day or so. I agree that Grado has a great tone and I appreciate that they're made in the US. I'm tempted by the Prestige3 line but haven't bought one yet. Thanks for the post on Grado, which doesn't get discussed as much on AK as in the past.
The 3 series is a lot better than the 1 and 2. The 2 had better highs than the 1 but they were prone to go open circuit.
The 3 has much better highs than the 1 or 2 and are very reliable. The Opus 3 is the bargain of the range and if you have enough gain the low output version is the one to get.
Chris
 
Grado cartridges aren't shielded. They can act like an antenna and pick up AC hum. Depends on proximity to AC source.

Grado dance is what they look like when they resonate on certain tonearms. They can "quiver" violently enough to jump out of the groove. This has to do with the cartridge's compliance and the tonearm's effective mass.
 
My Statement Sonata3 used to dance itself right out of the groove with my SME 3009 S2 (Unimproved) arm. I've read the two are incompatible because of the knife edge bearings and that a damping trough is necessary.
It turned out that I hadn't set the arm's lateral balance correctly. Once corrected, the cartridge tracks steady and the sonic image is more focused.
I never tried a damping trough.
 
The Van Alstine Longhorn mod was an attempt to get rid of the "dancing"!



I fashioned and used a longhorn on a Grado years ago, a Prestige Blue I think it was. It looked kinda cool to me but I couldn't discern a difference in performance. The only time I've ever noticed mistracking on a Grado was with tonearm resonance tracks on one of the Shure test records. Even when the stylus wiggled/danced it continued to remain in the track to the end. Was cool to look at though!

I'd really love to try one of the new Grados but am in cheapo mode lately and own more cartridges than I can use anyway. I threw on an older Silver (maybe Silver2?) on my main rig last week but it didn't do much for me and it came off a few hours later. Sounded a bit dull and rolled off in the moment. The stylus on it has ~250 hours on it. Wonder if it would sound much better with one of the Gen3 styli.
 
Sounded a bit dull and rolled off in the moment.
that's grado sound for you...i don't know why such fascinations with grado, but maybe i do, hand made in brooklin, u.s.a, yadda, yadda, yadda...and some of them have wood body...

even their own rankings are fishy, we made some crap carts ( but, don't forget hand made), and we called them grado black...if they are not such crap they become grado green...if some of them are even better they are grado red...or blue...or whatever....gimme a break...
 
I fashioned and used a longhorn on a Grado years ago, a Prestige Blue I think it was. It looked kinda cool to me but I couldn't discern a difference in performance. The only time I've ever noticed mistracking on a Grado was with tonearm resonance tracks on one of the Shure test records. Even when the stylus wiggled/danced it continued to remain in the track to the end. Was cool to look at though!

I'd really love to try one of the new Grados but am in cheapo mode lately and own more cartridges than I can use anyway. I threw on an older Silver (maybe Silver2?) on my main rig last week but it didn't do much for me and it came off a few hours later. Sounded a bit dull and rolled off in the moment. The stylus on it has ~250 hours on it. Wonder if it would sound much better with one of the Gen3 styli.
The Gen 3 cartridge is what has changed no so much the stylus.
The 3 series have way better highs
Chris
 
that's grado sound for you...i don't know why such fascinations with grado, but maybe i do, hand made in brooklin, u.s.a, yadda, yadda, yadda...and some of them have wood body...

even their own rankings are fishy, we made some crap carts ( but, don't forget hand made), and we called them grado black...if they are not such crap they become grado green...if some of them are even better they are grado red...or blue...or whatever....gimme a break...
I agree the rankings are crap, but thry new 3 series are very good indeed.
Chris
 
I fashioned and used a longhorn on a Grado years ago, a Prestige Blue I think it was. It looked kinda cool to me but I couldn't discern a difference in performance. The only time I've ever noticed mistracking on a Grado was with tonearm resonance tracks on one of the Shure test records. Even when the stylus wiggled/danced it continued to remain in the track to the end. Was cool to look at though!
I've only heard a Grado in three turntables. In my dad's Toshiba SR-230, it (I no longer remember which model of Grado it was) wiggled and danced spectacularly! In the Ittok LVIII/2 arm I had on an LP12, there was no visible dance with a Grado Green1, but, while chamber music was usually fine, tracking large-scale orchestral music was a bit uncertain even at Grado's 2 gram maximum (their older models had a vtf range of 1-2 grams with 1.5 grams recommended). In the damped arm of a Well Tempered Record Player, the Green1 tracked everything flawlessly at the recommended 1.5 grams.

Audio by Van Alstine re-introduced their Longhorn-modified Grados about 15 years ago, and I bought a Longhorn Green1 to try out. I don't recall hearing a marked difference in performance on the Well Tempered, but there was a nice improvement on the Linn, which now handled everything just great at 1.7 grams and with better detail retrieval and dynamics (which were already pretty darn good prior to the Longhorn). As produced by AVA, the Longhorn also included internal damping of the stylus itself and the coils inside the cartridge body.
I'd really love to try one of the new Grados but am in cheapo mode lately and own more cartridges than I can use anyway. I threw on an older Silver (maybe Silver2?) on my main rig last week but it didn't do much for me and it came off a few hours later. Sounded a bit dull and rolled off in the moment. The stylus on it has ~250 hours on it. Wonder if it would sound much better with one of the Gen3 styli.
I haven't heard any Grado newer than the Green1, but there were things I liked about it even before I had the Longhorn version. An old post said, "Despite the less than stellar tracking and the low level hum I got with the Linn as the arm approaches the innermost part of the record, I liked a lot of what the Grado Green did: (1) even at low volume levels, the tonal balance really is rich and full: bass and percussive instruments have good visceral impact, the orchestral colors of Bartok and Richard Strauss seem almost magical, and the timbre of individual instruments is well preserved, making it easier to distinguish one from another; (2) there is good stereo separation and stable focus of the stereo image; this delineation of instruments in space as well as timbre makes it easy to follow different instrumental lines; (3) the Green reveals nuances of pitch and dynamics, even for low-level background voices and instruments, that make a recording sound more like real musicians playing real instruments."

Now that I've installed the last stylus I had on hand for my VM95, I'm thinking about trying a new Grado, too, but I am a bit scared off by statements about "much better highs" in the 3 series. Years ago, people in the forums talked about getting "better" highs from the M97xE through different loading and/or after-market styli, but by better, they really meant brighter, which I wouldn't care for. The OP, though, didn't mention that kind of difference, at least not with his 3 series Sonata.
 
Over the years I have had a few Grados, I have never experienced their dancing or humming myself, but I witnessed at a friend's house how a Grado Signature model (can't remember which one) literally danced out of the record track and took to the sky.In the early eighties I had a Grado Signature 8MR as my main cartridge and liked it very much, even more than some of the moving coils in my collection. Like all cartridges, Grado has its pros and cons, but all the models I have listened to have something that is to my liking (the reproduction of voices is fantastic).
But taste and opinions are as we all know like "assxxles" everyone has one!:cool:
The models I have had an experience with: F3E+,F1,FTE,Van Alstine Longhorn,Signature 8MR,RED,REF Sonata,GOLD-2/8MZ stylus,GOLD-3/8MZ stylus.
All are gone except the GOLD-3 with the 8MZ stylus which I still have in my cartridge collection and play with occasionally, to my childish delight.

PC300002.JPG
 
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Now that I've installed the last stylus I had on hand for my VM95, I'm thinking about trying a new Grado, too, but I am a bit scared off by statements about "much better highs" in the 3 series. Years ago, people in the forums talked about getting "better" highs from the M97xE through different loading and/or after-market styli, but by better, they really meant brighter, which I wouldn't care for.
hear, hear...for many brighter sound means "more details", and i didn't care much about it as well...of course, grado dull sound isn't solution as well...it's not easy to find something in between...
 
I’ve been a fan of Grado cartridges for about thirty years. I played in the Silver and Gold arena for a number of years before moving up to the Reference Platinum. I know, “Grado hum,” “Grado dance,” but I’ve always had turntables that were not affected by these issues,

I've had mixed success with Grado. When they work they're really good, I like them. When they don't work, what I get is mistracking and/or sibilance.

I had success mounting them in:

SME 3009 III + fluid damping
Pioneer PL-71
Pioneer PL-4 (straight "polymer graphite" tonearm)
Linn Basik Plus tonearm

I had problems in:
SME 3009 II non-imp
others, can't remember now.

The 3 series is a lot better than the 1 and 2. The 2 had better highs than the 1 but they were prone to go open circuit.
The 3 has much better highs than the 1 or 2 and are very reliable. The Opus 3 is the bargain of the range and if you have enough gain the low output version is the one to get.
Chris

I bought a Grado Gold3 needle based on your posts lauding the new 3 series. Of course, I believe you. I'm yet to test the Gold3 needle, it's in box.

The Van Alstine Longhorn mod was an attempt to get rid of the "dancing"!

The longhorn mod is a very good mod, i mean, it makes sense, and should benefit many cartridges, not just the Grado.

To me, the "problem" is obvious: the way the Grado stylus assembler is made, the cantilever will have little damping; it does not have the strong damping of -say- Shure cartridges (which made them general-purpose for almost any arm). Thus, the Grado cartridges are more demanding of tonearm condition and matching.

My experience is that the tonearm mass is not the problem, but how well the tonearm copes with the energy released back by the Grado cartridge.
 
hear, hear...for many brighter sound means "more details", and i didn't care much about it as well...of course, grado dull sound isn't solution as well...it's not easy to find something in between...

My Grado MCZ cartridge couldn't be described as "dull" at all. I'd describe it as "butter smooth and detailed". Truly one of the best cartridges i've heard.
 
Huge fan of Grado cartridges and headphones here. What's key to getting the most out of each is what turntable/arm you install the cartridges in, and what HPA you use to plug the headphones into.
 
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