Grado

[cason]

I’m not so naive as to believe Grado cartridges are for everyone. Just as LOMCs or Ortfons or Linn turntables or any other piece or make of gear will or should be universally accepted. But if one loves the way a well set up Grado cartridge mated with the right amplification and speakers presents music, then I believe they are worth the effort. (to overcome their challenges) .

For the Grado curious, let me suggest an introductory path. Get a decent P-mount turntable (they’re cheap), add a Grado p-mount silver or gold cartridge and try it with your favorite amp and speakers. If you don’t like what you hear, post the turntable and cartridge on the bay or Barter Town or some other marketplace and get most of your money back.

The real point of my original post was not to promote Grado cartridges to everyone, but to celebrate the joy their rendering of recorded music has given to me. And to let y’all know what a great wife I have. (51 years this past November)

 

[cafe latte]

I've had mixed success with Grado. When they work they're really good, I like them. When they don't work, what I get is mistracking and/or sibilance.

I had success mounting them in:

SME 3009 III + fluid damping
Pioneer PL-71
Pioneer PL-4 (straight "polymer graphite" tonearm)
Linn Basik Plus tonearm

I had problems in:
SME 3009 II non-imp
others, can't remember now.



I bought a Grado Gold3 needle based on your posts lauding the new 3 series. Of course, I believe you. I'm yet to test the Gold3 needle, it's in box.



The longhorn mod is a very good mod, i mean, it makes sense, and should benefit many cartridges, not just the Grado.

To me, the "problem" is obvious: the way the Grado stylus assembler is made, the cantilever will have little damping; it does not have the strong damping of -say- Shure cartridges (which made them general-purpose for almost any arm). Thus, the Grado cartridges are more demanding of tonearm condition and matching.

My experience is that the tonearm mass is not the problem, but how well the tonearm copes with the energy released back by the Grado cartridge.

You need the whole 3 cartridge as the difference is in the body.
Cheers
Chris

 

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I have a Grado G-1+ with an 8MZ stylus mounted in a Denon DA-50 arm on my Rek-O-Kut Rondine B-12. It tracks beautifully and sounds amazing! I also have a Shue V15 RS (Radio Shacks version of a V15 type V MR but with a hyper-elliptical stylus and minus the machined aluminum body. The Grado makes the Shure sound bland. I rarely use it anymore. The Grado hums very slightly with the big AC induction motor but can't be heard the minute the music starts. It hums much more in a Thorens TD-145 I have and wouldn't be usable there.

Dave

 

[Mr Boochie]

The Van Alstine Longhorn mod was an attempt to get rid of the "dancing"!

Seems like he's adding mass to the headshell/cartridge end of the tonearm. Maybe using a heavier headshell or adding weight to the top will do the same thing?

You will prolly need a heavier counterweight to compensate for the added mass. Then use a test record to find the resonance frequency.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I’ve been a fan of Grado cartridges for about thirty years. I played in the Silver and Gold arena for a number of years before moving up to the Reference Platinum. I know, “Grado hum,” “Grado dance,” but I’ve always had turntables that were not affected by these issues, although the Technics SL-1200Mk II does require fluid damping to tame the dance. I have and use other cartridges, Shure M91 with fine line tip, Ortofon 2M Blue, Denon DL-110, Sumiko Oyster among others. But there’s something just downright pleasing and satisfying about Grado’s interpretation of the phono pick-up. It’s always just a GOOD listen. So, where am I going with this? Well, my dear wife gave me a Grado Sonata 3 for my birthday, Dec. 7, and I will tell you I am truly enjoying this step up in the Grado line. I won’t call it a giant leap above the Platinum, but it’s a notable and pleasing improvement, at least to me, in all the qualities by which we grade phono cartridges. It’s quiet, it’s lush, vocals and acoustic instruments have very real tones and textures, but it can rock electric when you want it to. Mine is not broken in good yet but I’m very pleased and I just felt like giving Grado a big thumbs up.

I've found the Grado Woodies I've heard to be very nice. But expensive. The Sonata is excellent. I prefer Nagaoka MP-series over the Grado replaceable styli models. Much better HF extension, and everything that Grado line does, but better. And stylus replacements easier and no tool needed.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Seems like he's adding mass to the headshell/cartridge end of the tonearm. Maybe using a heavier headshell or adding weight to the top will do the same thing?

You will prolly need a heavier counterweight to compensate for the added mass. Then use a test record to find the resonance frequency.

A 10 gram headshell works well for most Grado offerings on Technics turntables.

 

[Mr Boochie]

A 10 gram headshell works well for most Grado offerings on Technics turntables.

Can you use the stock counterweight? Or do you need to add an auxiliary one?

Thanks!

 

[Mr Boochie]

I've found the Grado Woodies I've heard to be very nice. But expensive. The Sonata is excellent. I prefer Nagaoka MP-series over the Grado replaceable styli models. Much better HF extension, and everything that Grado line does, but better. And stylus replacements easier and no tool needed.

I tried a Grado Red 3 cartridge a while back and didn't like it.


I liked the Nagaoka better. But eventually, went to MC cartridges.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Can you use the stock counterweight? Or do you need to add an auxiliary one?

Thanks!

With the stock counterweight, it did fine.

 

[fpharryc]

I have collected all kind of Grado bodies, with or without stylus, to the extent I dare not confess to anybody, including all the Grado friends here. Can anybody tell me why? Or know why?

 

[zwuttoo]

I have collected all kind of Grado bodies, with or without stylus, to the extent I dare not confess to anybody, including all the Grado friends here. Can anybody tell me why? Or know why?

The ways of the individual are inscrutable!

 

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I have collected all kind of Grado bodies, with or without stylus, to the extent I dare not confess to anybody, including all the Grado friends here. Can anybody tell me why? Or know why?

I have 2 Grado G-1+ carts. Don't know why I bought the second one. Also have an XF1 and a Blue. Maybe I'm starting to come down with the same affliction...

 

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I have a Grado G-1+ with an 8MZ stylus mounted in a Denon DA-50 arm on my Rek-O-Kut Rondine B-12. It tracks beautifully and sounds amazing! I also have a Shue V15 RS (Radio Shacks version of a V15 type V MR but with a hyper-elliptical stylus and minus the machined aluminum body. The Grado makes the Shure sound bland. I rarely use it anymore. The Grado hums very slightly with the big AC induction motor but can't be heard the minute the music starts. It hums much more in a Thorens TD-145 I have and wouldn't be usable there.

Dave

I have an update: I discovered the my turntable ground wire had fallen off the preamp. After reconnecting it, there is zero hum. Amazing considering the very big AC motor. The motor must be well sheilded.

Dave

 

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Seems like he's adding mass to the headshell/cartridge end of the tonearm. Maybe using a heavier headshell or adding weight to the top will do the same thing?

You will prolly need a heavier counterweight to compensate for the added mass. Then use a test record to find the resonance frequency.

It's not a matter of mass. The longhorn works the same as a tightrope walker. The long pole is used to balance the cartridge to prevent the wobble. The most mass is at the tips of the longhorn. It's very effective. I had a Grado Blue years ago that would occasionally wobble (dance) mounted on a Grado wooden pro tonearm. I built a longhorn following the directions exactly. No more dance. Tracked beautifully. I only sold the tonearm because on records that had whoop-de-doo warps, the massive tonearm would literally launch out of the grooves.

Dave

 

[RE604]

Grado cartridges aren't shielded. They can act like an antenna and pick up AC hum. Depends on proximity to AC source.

Grado dance is what they look like when they resonate on certain tonearms. They can "quiver" violently enough to jump out of the groove. This has to do with the cartridge's compliance and the tonearm's effective mass.

Grado cartridges can also pick up DC, for example from the more modern 24V DC Rega motors.
The motor of the Rega P8 is shielded with permalloy to the top.

As somebody wrote even with the Linn LP12 there were problems concerning hum. This could well be if the LP12 has an internal PS such as the Valhalla.
As soon as such a PS is in an external housing, the hum is gone. I had this problem in an extreme way with the Linn Axis of a friend. I wanted to give the
(cheap and not so good) Basic + tonearm a better cable (tried several, v.d.Hul, Audio-Note, Cardas) but only with the original coaxial cable there was no hum.
It was the internal PS of the Axis. To bring this external is quite "an operation" because the motor sits on it but I carefully took the motor off and placed it on a multilayer birch plywood board, closed the open parts of the chassis and built the PS in an external housing after overhauling it (a must).
The (positive) difference was huge. Did the same to another Axis but with a Geddon-Clone PS (33rpm only). Same improvement and non-sensitivity for a Grado.

So the sensivity of Grado MI's is not so much a Grado fault but a problem of the tt because of acrylic/plastic- or glassplatters, motors (such as double or triple motordrive like Voyd tt's, Alphason Sonata is immune*)

I never had the chance to have a v.A. Longhorn here, but regarding the "dance" which for sure has to do with incompatibility with a given tonearm:
The Elite Rock and other tt's by Max Townshend had this special silicon damping trough with the paddle/outrigger on front of the tonearm underneath the cartridge.
One can buy the trough and paddle alone, not cheap but a worthwhile investment. It can catapult a (rewired, which is a must) Rega RB300 or other Rega into a new dimension.
I also had good experiences with Well Tempered tonearms which of course a always damped but .... never sound damped.
The SME 3009 improved is not a tonearm I like very much and single knive-edge bearings might not be the best solution for a Grado anyway, SAEC tonearms with their double knive-edge bearings don't fit with their effective mass. SME knifeedge tonearms are anyway very critical if the lateral balance is not perfectly aligned. I love the 3009MK1 and 3012MK1 but for SPU, Koetsu and similar low compliance MC's.

*Mike Knowles understood the problem of the second motor right underneath the cartridge and shielded the platter of the Sonata with a thin permalloy sheet, so similar what Rega does in the P8 and P10 but just on top of the motor.
The Sonatas platter shields very well, zero hum there. Anyway a great turntable, particular with an external PS for the motors.
Guy Adams of course did this like nobody else in the days of the large Voyd tt's, his external split PS was in a 19" housing. But he used the great these days unavailable Papst motors, unbeatable!

 

[RE604]

I have 2 Grado G-1+ carts. Don't know why I bought the second one. Also have an XF1 and a Blue. Maybe I'm starting to come down with the same affliction...

I know why: THe G1+ was a great Grado, tappered cantilever and Twin-Tip diamond (Grado style)
I am not so keen on the new series which started with the Black, Red, Green, Silver and Gold. All use bonded elliptical tips.

A naked diamond is just that much better as Audio Technica showed long time ago. Even the cheap VM95 line can show the difference.
I repaired a few of the AT95 derivates by Suchy / Clearaudio. Cheap but black ATN95e stylus (the black one was made for the Thorens AT95e version).
replacing it already with the bonded EX was already better but a ATN95ML or SH is way way better.