Graphic Equalizer fact or fiction?

[H/K crazy]

In a perfect world, everyone would listen to their music flat....no bass and treble controls....no EQ... AND that's if everything was recorded perfect, if everyone's room acoustics were perfect, if everyone had the perfect sound system, if everyone's hearing was perfect.....

 

[2manyspkers]

I think it's funny that a guy "running the mixing board for a local band" becomes a professional sound engineer in a few short posts, maybe the real picture is he blew out some equipment by incorrectly using equalization so he began to caution his friends of the dangers of using an equalizer, seems pretty plausible.

We have all seen, heard of, or know someone who has damaged equipment by overdriving components in the system both with and without equalization, it can cause a problem when the volume overall or in one particular frequency is driven past the capabilities of the speakers. We should alway caution people to recognize the signs that you've cranked up the signal beyond the capacity of your speakers, equalizers just make it a little easier to do this.

Given that equalization and mixing are a sound person's primary tools, I would think that most would not take away the equalizer from the system to protect the equipment, they simply have a much better idea how to use these tools to enhance the sound and compensate for the changes in different venue's.

Personally I have an equalizer in my basement system and it does help a little to adjust the sound to the room, and it's fun to play with. My main system(s) I don't use an equalizer and don't plan to add one, I have connected one and didn't feel it added much enhancement. Then again I'm not a professional sound engineer although I did design 100's of PA systems, the goal was totally different than a music sound engineer would encounter.

 

[2manyspkers]

In a perfect world, everyone would listen to their music flat....no bass and treble controls....no EQ... AND that's if everything was recorded perfect, if everyone's room acoustics were perfect, if everyone had the perfect sound system, if everyone's hearing was perfect.....

So you're saying my hearing isn't perfect, I heard that !

 

[Mr. Soundman]

I hear EQ's make your farts smell bad ... pass it on.

Anything audio can be dangerous in the wrong hands though. Set the bass sliders to +12db, and you may be in for a BIG surprise depending on what you're listening to and how loud you make it. Ditto for the top controls ... good way to fry tweeters if your system can pump out enough decibels in that range.

And of course, goes without saying, no amount of EQ can make Justin Beiber sound good, and your woofs might just shred and your tweets melt just to put themselves out of their misery ...

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

[drumbum]

I can see why the vintage crowd kinda gravitates to EQ when putting their system together. Pretty much the same reason people shopping for "Home" audio 40 years ago. It looked cool, it made them look like they knew what they where doing in front off friends, it made the system look bigger and better, this is a professional system your looking at buddy. The manufacturers did the same thing, "look at our rack system, professional grade!!" and then they liked the fact it's more they can sell to the buyer.

Did anyone ever notice that during say the 60s....no EQ, except for the phono.

How about a lot of the 70s, when receivers where big and in wood boxes, was there any stand alone EQ built in a wood case to go with your receiver, tuner and integrate...Nope no EQ

Then all of a sudden the rack mount gear showed up, a roll around cabinet, separates, EQ, rack mounting R2R.......Reverb...Strobes...Audio Mixers... The Manufacturers loved it since Quad took a dump and they couldn't sell the idiots a bunch of supporting gear for it. Hey lets build a bunch of crap that looks professional and they will buy it....idiots 95% of those buyer didn't know how to use half that crap and still don't....


McIntosh has a Room correction component, that you run a sequence with a microphone and the computer sets parameters for the system in that room. With that said please do tell me one high end manufacturer that sells a EQ with their system today....none!!!!

So either the equipment suck so bad in the late 70s and 80s one needed a EQ
Or the music sucked so bad in the late 70s and 80s one needed a EQ
Or the rooms sucked so bad in the late 70s and 80s one needed a EQ

The one constant I can think of.... the same idiots are around

I still wonder how some members get away with skirting the AK rules.

How many members are you calling an idiot?
How many members are you accusing of owning crap?
Most of the posts you make are dripping with condescension. Certain descriptive words come to mind when I read your drivel. I find your boorish behavior tiresome.

 

[ConradH]

I had a Soundcraftsman back in the '70s and I know the shop sold a lot of them. Here's my take on equalizers- if you have a frequency response problem, they can help. But, many room problems are the result of modes (location sensitive) and the lack of sound deadening materials or having them in the wrong locations. Bad reverb times. An eq can't fix that stuff. I think more rooms suffer from the latter sorts of problems and you need to address those first. After you do, the "need" for an eq may suddenly disappear.

FWIW, my wife won't let me have an equalizer because when I did, I had to get up and fuss with it on every other song.

 

[Frank Sol]

I had a Soundcraftsman back in the '70s and I know the shop sold a lot of them. Here's my take on equalizers- if you have a frequency response problem, they can help. But, many room problems are the result of modes (location sensitive) and the lack of sound deadening materials or having them in the wrong locations. Bad reverb times. An eq can't fix that stuff. I think more rooms suffer from the latter sorts of problems and you need to address those first. After you do, the "need" for an eq may suddenly disappear.

cannot count the number of times over the years I've seen friend's speakers pushed back all the way to the front wall... They complain about their system

 

[Beatnik]

I just sat five eqs out to the curb this morning. Damn that was close, in the 40 years I've been using them I could've fried a tweeter !

 

[2manyspkers]

I can see why the vintage crowd kinda gravitates to EQ when putting their system together. Pretty much the same reason people shopping for "Home" audio 40 years ago. It looked cool, it made them look like they knew what they where doing in front off friends, it made the system look bigger and better, this is a professional system your looking at buddy. The manufacturers did the same thing, "look at our rack system, professional grade!!" and then they liked the fact it's more they can sell to the buyer.

Did anyone ever notice that during say the 60s....no EQ, except for the phono.

How about a lot of the 70s, when receivers where big and in wood boxes, was there any stand alone EQ built in a wood case to go with your receiver, tuner and integrate...Nope no EQ

Then all of a sudden the rack mount gear showed up, a roll around cabinet, separates, EQ, rack mounting R2R.......Reverb...Strobes...Audio Mixers... The Manufacturers loved it since Quad took a dump and they couldn't sell the idiots a bunch of supporting gear for it. Hey lets build a bunch of crap that looks professional and they will buy it....idiots 95% of those buyer didn't know how to use half that crap and still don't....


McIntosh has a Room correction component, that you run a sequence with a microphone and the computer sets parameters for the system in that room. With that said please do tell me one high end manufacturer that sells a EQ with their system today....none!!!!

So either the equipment suck so bad in the late 70s and 80s one needed a EQ
Or the music sucked so bad in the late 70s and 80s one needed a EQ
Or the rooms sucked so bad in the late 70s and 80s one needed a EQ

The one constant I can think of.... the same idiots are around

The modern Equalizer was developed in 1971, perhaps rather than saying people were idiots, maybe a new and expensive at the time technology was not widely available to the general public for this reason and not because they were idiots. So are all the audio engineering people using equalization to enhance the recording of music also just idiots ? If music doesn't need equalization I suggest you go and record your favorite band live and without a sound guy manipulating the sound via equalization and see exactly how great it sounds. Maybe your concept of equalization needs some equalization, you might not need it in your home system, only because it was used to create the recording you are listening to...

 

[sKiZo]

I just sat five eqs out to the curb this morning. Damn that was close, in the 40 years I've been using them I could've fried a tweeter !

Only five? <G>

Here's a stack of graphics EQs that I tried along the way before seeing the light. Of these, the Yamaha Q2031 came out on top ... more bands IS better.

A couple more not in the pic. Thing is, they all showed promise in taming my room (except for the soundshaper ... that was an unmitigated piece of shite), but all came up short. Did I give up entirely on EQ? No ... final solution was a good parametric ...

That's set based on actual frequency sweeps of the room using a calibrated microphone and Room EQ Wizard software. The Technics SH9010 does the duty for all my analog sources (the difference is literally night and day for sound quality), and I use a DSP solution ( the very same REW sweep data, imported to jRiver's "convolution" plugin) for my digital sources. The DSP plugin is way more accurate, but with some careful fine tuning, the SH9010 does a very respectable job of taming the big lumps in concert with an MQ104 environmental equalizer that really makes the big box McIntosh speakers sing.

Finally got it right, and haven't felt the need to tweak anything in a couple years since.

 

[pdm4606]

In some cases the use of a graphic equalizer is needed.
My case of use is to tame down a room bump at around 400 to 600 hz. It sounds so bad to have the boominess and the only way I found was to decrease frequencies in this range.
Not much. Just enough to make the sound pleasant.

 

[sKiZo]

Probably worth throwing in here ... an equalizer is a very handy tool for fine tuning your environment, but DO keep in mind, actual room treatments are your best approach to taming the big lumps. I had a KILLER standing wave in my over square listening area that benefited greatly from the addition of floor to ceiling insulated fiberglass drapes to pad out the entire front wall. Not perfect, but it did calm things down to where the electronic EQ didn't have to be as drastic.

Also worth mentioning (repeating?) ... moderation in all things. The more you adjust a slider on a graphic EQ from center flat, the greater effect it will have on the adjacent bands as well. That's where a parametric shines ... not only can you target an exact center frequency, you can also adjust the bandwidth affected. You can also apply multiple filters to the same band if necessary.

 

[JoeESP9]

In a perfect world, everyone would listen to their music flat....no bass and treble controls....no EQ... AND that's if everything was recorded perfect, if everyone's room acoustics were perfect, if everyone had the perfect sound system, if everyone's hearing was perfect.....

Everything was recorded perfectly according to the engineers and producers. That you don't agree with the engineer/producer is irrelevant. If you set up/acquire a system that reproduces the input with minimal effect on the output you logically can't ask for more. Anything beyond that is personal preference.

I had a Soundcraftsman back in the '70s and I know the shop sold a lot of them. Here's my take on equalizers- if you have a frequency response problem, they can help. But, many room problems are the result of modes (location sensitive) and the lack of sound deadening materials or having them in the wrong locations. Bad reverb times. An eq can't fix that stuff. I think more rooms suffer from the latter sorts of problems and you need to address those first. After you do, the "need" for an eq may suddenly disappear.

FWIW, my wife won't let me have an equalizer because when I did, I had to get up and fuss with it on every other song.

Constantly tweaking the sliders is IMO one of the major problems with in home playback via an octave (or any) equalizer. Most everyone thinks their personal response curve is better than what's actually on the recording. The reality is that equalizing for flat in room response is almost always more accurate than equalizing for personal preference. Sure, your personal preference may be pleasing to you. However it most likely bears little resemblance to what the artist engineer intended. Of course if you don't care what the intended sound is supposed to sound like do whatever you want.

 

[Northwinds]

Hmmm, I thought for sure Soundcraftsman had 10-band octave equalizers in the 70s in wooden boxes. Well, I guess I've been edumacated now. So many things I don't recall correctly from long ago. I'm sure glad others have much superior memories of the past. Oh well....

They did and EQ's go back a ways through the early 70s

A EQ used properly will help your sound, the important thing is to match the perceived volume the same as when the EQ is not in use. If a EQ is set flat, there is no volume difference... when you start boosting/cutting frequencies, that either increases perceived volume or lowers it so you have to use the EQ level control to bring everything back to same listening level. IE defeat the EQ and engage it, there should be no difference in loudness

EVERY mastering studio has used EQ's, they have their place. EVERY band has used EQ's in their PA's. You can help correct a bad listening space with careful use of an EQ

 

[Frank Sol]

OT a little...

I thought the bass was too much on Jakob Dylan's Women + Country

Some say it is just T Bone Burnett's 'sound' - the Producer

I ripped the cd to wave... reduced the bass and burned to cdr

Depends on the system but 80% of the time I prefer my rip over the original - Just me

 

[Northwinds]

The modern Equalizer was developed in 1971, perhaps rather than saying people were idiots, maybe a new and expensive at the time technology was not widely available to the general public for this reason and not because they were idiots. So are all the audio engineering people using equalization to enhance the recording of music also just idiots ? If music doesn't need equalization I suggest you go and record your favorite band live and without a sound guy manipulating the sound via equalization and see exactly how great it sounds. Maybe your concept of equalization needs some equalization, you might not need it in your home system, only because it was used to create the recording you are listening to...

You end up with a soundboard recording and we know how shitty they sound. Straight sound out of a board sounds like crap, think about almost every bootleg soundboard recording you may own and then compare it to a studio recording. BIG difference. ALL live recordings are EQ'd or it would sound absolutely terrible

 

[JoeESP9]

ALL live recordings are EQ'd or it would sound absolutely terrible

All recordings, except DtoD or equivalent regardless of provenance are heavily EQ'd.

 

[WaynerN]

I'm not against the "proper" use of a quality EQ, however there are some thoughts to consider. If you are using it to correct for room problems, maybe you should fix the room problems (and not with an EQ). Secondly, if you are trying to fix the sound of a particular recording, there certainly are some bad recordings.

Along those same lines of thinking (and we all do think differently), I always wondered why someone would own a battery charger for the car. If the battery is giving you problems, then get a new battery. If you have deep cell marine battery, I could understand the need. So to those ends, what was the EQ suppose to fix? Maybe the audio guys just didn't like the sound they were getting from their systems. In the case of a band playing at a local Legion club, I can understand that, God knows what kind of acoustical hell they must encounter, and every venue is different, hence the need, if you care about your band's overall sound.

I had 2 EQs in my life, the first one was a 5/7 band EQ from JVC (SEA-XX ??) or something like that, and later I had a Soundcraftsmen DX-4200 (I think or maybe a DX-4100). The neat thing about the Soundcraftsmen was that after you set the EQ, you had output compensators (1 for each channel) so that the EQ did not act as an amplifier, which is where the whole EQ thing kind of went off the tracks. They simply were abused by their owners that really didn't understand them, nor understood how they worked and what happened to equipment down-stream (amps, speakers).

'ner

 

[stevo137]

They EQ'd and mixed the recordings and so we shouldn't need to.

Many recordings suck and I pretty much don't listen to those.
There are bands that had great potential that came up short of their potential due to poor recordings and bad mixing during concerts.

A classic example is the band "Angel".
A very good to great band with crappy recordings IMO.

The question here is do you use an EQ with your listening system or is it beneficial to use one, I think that's the topic?
Or can an EQ damage speakers?

Yes, and your ears are also being damaged if you damage your speakers!

I don't use one and listen mostly flat except a few crossover tweaks.
Others might and if that works for them, very good, be happy!

 

[Dave_1962]

I have three EQs - in my closet gathering dust.