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Hafler XL-280 versus "professional" amplifiers

Ealyb11

Ealyb11

Well-Known Member
I like my Hafler a lot, but my Maggies (MMG) could use a tad more juice. How do the professional amps like the Crown XLS series, Yamaha P series, and QSC pro amps work with a 2 channel music only system? (open to other as well, those just seem to be popular) Are they going to ravage my Halfer in sound quality? Or will it be the other way around? I know I can just go buy one and find out, but humor me here, not all of us can just toss 3-400$ out the window for an experiment. I am aware some pro amps have loud fans. Does anyone use and enjoy pro amps for their 'audiophile' system?
 
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I use nothing but pro amps nowadays... The crown xls series are very good amps. Lot people shun them cause they're class d design amps but, i find them very good amps even for hi-fi use. Been running an xls 2500 on my large altecs for a year now and it never left out doing stereo duty. Really like it and can't complain.
 
I thought my Hafler DH-220 was great with my MMGs. Are you running a sub? Although I always let my MMGs run full-range with my sub (a Hsu STF-2), I think the sub's contribution still adds to perceived loudness. Remember, doubling the power only gets you one click louder. That said, if you want to try 2000 watts/side, it's a lot more feasible now than ever before...
 
Running 2 of 3 amps in a tri amp hifi setup that are Crown CTS permanent installation type amps. Sound very good and can recommend without hesitation.
 
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Ealyb11 said:
I like my Hafler a lot, but my Maggies (MMG) could use a tad more juice. How do the professional amps like the Crown XLS series, Yamaha P series, and QSC pro amps work with a 2 channel music only system? (open to other as well, those just seem to be popular) Are they going to ravage my Halfer in sound quality? Or will it be the other way around? I know I can just go buy one and find out, but humor me here, not all of us can just toss 3-400$ out the window for an experiment. I am aware some pro amps have loud fans. Does anyone use and enjoy pro amps for their 'audiophile' system?
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I have several and often mix-match them in different systems.
If you want to get a flavor of something (hard to say what they might have) look up sound reinforcement type of businesses around you to see if they have something you could rent for a weekend. That's how I got my first taste. Rented a Crown K2 for a weekend. Cost me like $20 or $25 bucks for the whole weekend. Granted, that was several years ago now but still heck of a lot cheaper than buying. They didn't have $150 XLS DriveCore amps back then. :)
 
I'm currently using a Crown XLS 1500 to drive my EV Sentry 500's. A one word description is "superb". Outstanding audio quality, lots of real power and weighs a fraction of what my big BGW and Crest amps do. Personally I consider them a steal with all factors considered.
 
There is a local shop here that advertises power amp rentals. They stock Peavey and Yamaha. Going to swing by tomorrow and see what it would cost to take maybe a P-5000S home for a weekend.
Wish they had Crown. Reading the specs the XLS-2500 is only 11 pounds. That's lighter than my CD player almost. I've been nothing if not a bit snobby about my 'hifi' gear and heavy has always been preached to be better. I suppose I'm just wondering how an 11 pound amp will be as far as build quality compared to a 30 or 50 pound amp.

BobbyBluz you mention Crest. I see the CA-6 fits both my power and budget needs (used of course) but I see many many threads about how terrible Crest amps are with something like an 80% failure rate. What has your experience been?
 
I just say amp just does its job. Nothing offensive about it and no grain or glare to be detected as well. I heard lot of amps from different makes and lot bothered me a lot due to upper end top end graininess. The xls doesn't and actually surprised me when I went to give it a test run on full range use on my altecs. Build quality is good. Dropped it several times accendently from bout 3 ft onto concrete and couple 6ft drops when was placed on top of stuff. Only ended up couple light marks can barely see on rack ears and still plays like it came out of the factory.

Its 11lbs basically cause the metal used for the chassis the most. It uses a switch mode power supply for reason being so light and being class d using very fast MOSFETs, the need for very large heatsinks is not necessary. They stay very cool even when stressed beyond use and running full output for hours under heavy loads. Never had one issue. Fans are temperature controlled and never heard it at all in quiet moments of music. Only saw fan move once and that was when I was pushing it at maximum output for good few hours.
 
The Crest FA901's I have are from the early 90's. I bought 8 of them used and none has failed yet. After my experience so far with the Crown XLS though that's the only one I'd recommend at this point in time for performance as well as cost.
 
Ealyb11 said:
There is a local shop here that advertises power amp rentals. They stock Peavey and Yamaha. Going to swing by tomorrow and see what it would cost to take maybe a P-5000S home for a weekend.
Wish they had Crown. Reading the specs the XLS-2500 is only 11 pounds. That's lighter than my CD player almost. I've been nothing if not a bit snobby about my 'hifi' gear and heavy has always been preached to be better. I suppose I'm just wondering how an 11 pound amp will be as far as build quality compared to a 30 or 50 pound amp.

BobbyBluz you mention Crest. I see the CA-6 fits both my power and budget needs (used of course) but I see many many threads about how terrible Crest amps are with something like an 80% failure rate. What has your experience been?
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If your gauge of build quality is weight then you're already predisposed to a bad vibe.

Weight is indicative of method and material, but not inherently of quality.
 
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Talked with a local dealer.

He recommended the Crown Comtech 810 if I can find one used.

New stuff he likes the Crest CC1800 and the Yamaha P5000S that fit in my spec and price range. These two are my favorites.

He did not recommend the XLS series of Crown amps. New crown amps he liked best are The CDI 1000 and 2000 but those are getting above my price range quite a bit.

Also found a QSC GX5, but I'm not sure about QSC.
 
Did you ask him why he recommended what he did and what he didn't?

I find it a bit strange that he recommended primarily install-type amps from Crown, often used in distributed type sound systems. Probably his bread and butter operation.

As far as QSC, I'm sure about them. Never used a GX-series, but I have several higher models from the PL and PLX series. They're good amps. They're more expensive though. Typically a clean, used older mid-size PLX like a PLX 2402 will fetch $400, give or take. May find better price if you don't mind one that's more beat up. The current like model, 2502, new is $900-1000 each.
 
Don't know why he wouldn't recommend the xls series since I never had issues with them. Qsc are very good amps as well. A friend of mines uses nothing but, Yamaha p series amps and likes them but, he told me he found them bit soft/lacking in the high end but, me personally don't know and never used them so, can't say.

The cdi are nothing more then commercial versions of the xti series. Same design,same software, same number scheme. just different connectors and chassis look. I own a xti 4002(same as cdi4000) and love that amp as well and past few months owning it and pushing it I never had issues or complaints bout it either.

Never used crest but, always heard complaints from other users on pro side but, that's with their class d stuff. I don't know bout that amp that was reccomended by the guy so I can't say since never used it. Know older ca series were reliable power houses. My friend who does lot of measurements and waterfall CSD plots on headphones on his site uses a ca6 for home hi-fi use.

Crown comtech are commercial amps that use barrier strip connectors but, are good amps and can actually be found pretty darn cheap second hand.

See what guy has and see how you like them. That's all I can tell you as advice and best option. All I can tell you my little experience and opinion with stuff and that's it.
 
I've a Crown X3000. I guess it sounds neutral not much preamp section in there. The fans are inaudible in stage one. This amp will impress you with it's effortless sound/ power. run run.
 
What I didn't see on the QSC was 5 way binding posts.

I simply asked him for his opinion based on his dealings in pro audio and that's what he gave me based on the costs and specs I said I wanted.

So he claimed, the installation style amps are superior in sound quality to the regular audio amps.
 
Not sure how that would be materially so, since the two Crowns he mentioned are just variants on other models.

Not unlike Micro Tech vs. Macro Tech. Same amp circuits, just different features.

Also, a lot of amps these days don't have true 5-way binding posts due to safety regulations.
 
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It looks like the P5000, GX5, and CC1800 all include binding posts now that I study some pictures of them.

How does one pick one of these amps or companies?

I'm very drawn to the Yamaha for both its looks and the name. The QSC GX5 has an attractive price tag and rave reviews most places.
The CC1800 came fairly highly recommended by the local shop here in town. I guess you just have to go with one and hope for the best?
 
Yeah, but they're almost certainly the touchless/EU style binding post with no exposed metal areas, not a 5-way like you might know it.
 
Back to the original question: Haflers of the DH-2xx/XL-2xx generation were also built and marketed in Pro-sumer versions. Most pro-sumer versions were mono versions where there was a bridging circuit board added to them, the model number changed and rack faces with handles were included. Otherwise, the circuits were identical.

I've used both big and little Haflers (DH-500/DH-220s) with Maggies and I can attest to their working better with the larger power output of the DH-500/P500 or XL-600 versions. This is very true with larger rooms, too.

The other option has been mentioned here: Use a sub with a crossover to augment the lowest octave. This allows the Maggies to operate without having to deal with the large excursions needed for the low bass. You split the load, so to speak, and still enjoy the Maggie magic.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

David
 
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