• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Hand Cleaning Vinyl vs. Record Cleaning Machine

thesauce

thesauce

Active Member
I have been considering buying a record cleaning machine, with the vacuum (maybe a Nitty Gritty), but I'm wondering if they are more for convenience or do they actually work better than hand cleaning? I don't mind the work it takes to hand clean, but when I get done often the record doesn't sound much better than before (although it looks great!). Does the vacuum make the difference?

Thanks,

Ben
 
Register to hide this ad
i've been hand cleaning myself and notice that i still have the deep down groove crud that makes seemingly clean vinyl pop like a pan of popcorn.

I'd be willing to bet the machines work better
 
I've been living with a nitty gritty for about a month now, and it made a huge difference. I'd never had much luck at all cleaning by hand, and had the same experience as you: things looked better, but sounded about the same. I think I was just spreading the gunk around. The NG sucks it all out, and is really simple to use. Machines are pricey, but it's made my whole system sound better w/clean source material. I have the 2.0. VPIs that I've seen being used seemed overly complicated to me ,but I hear they're great.
 
I'd like to comment. Hopefully to put it all into real life perspective.

Yes, I own a VPI 16.5 RCM Machine. I use Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions Cleaners, and Rinses.
I use Mo-Fi, and Disc Doctor Pads to do the scrubbing with.

Now, let's hypothetically take away my VPI Machine, and not changing anything else, could I possibly get my LPs just as clean?

Yes, I probably could. Of ourse, the RCM adds convenience, and speed, and I would abhor the thought of having to clean 500, 1000, or more LPs manually by hand.

Since this Machine doesn't scrub, nothing changes there, the same amount, and type of scrubbing wouldn't be changing, the fluids haven't changed, but the way the fluids are removed are changed.

One of the most important steps is the removal of cleaning fluids, and the contaminants they have lifted-removed. Now of course, using the same purified water for the rinse, I "might" be able to thoroughly flush the LP's surface of all residues, and contaminants (Aided by one of the Brush Pads), but I'm betting it would take a considerable amount of flushing-rinsing to accomplish this step.

The waste of rinse water would probably be considerable, versus the smaller amount needed when using the RCM Machine. One has to weigh, is it worth the hassle to go through this?

Now if you have two dozen records in your collection, buy only a few LPs over a week or, two, and can keep up, then I might agree, that it might be a foolish expenditure to purchase an RCM.

The RCM is only half the battle to clean records. In many instances, I believe the inefficiency of the cleaning fluids, and the final rinse folks are using are what is causing mucho grime-contaminants to remain in the groove. Mark
 
A clean record also deserves good quality sleeves to remain cleaner longer. Much of the crap you pick up in the grooves comes from deteriorating paper (or no) liners.
 
Well, it sounds like the vacuum is worth it in the end. They sure do seem to cost a lot more than they should though. I might try to build one myself if I have the time (probably would, if I'd get off this forum!)

Thanks guys.
 
To Mr "Thesauce",
I once kicked this same thought you had about the "high" costs of RCMs, the VPI 16.5 in particular with Jim Pendelton of Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions.

Jim I felt brought some sense to this thought, by saying that the cost of manufacture, although the machine isn't exactly made with burl maple, and only MDF, one still has to figure in the cost of fabricating, fitting, gluing together all the MDF Panels, the Acrylic Lid, and hinges, The machining for Arm Wand Tower-Base, the Arm Wand itself, the fabrication of Platter (wood), the purchase, and installation of two motors (Platter, and Vacuum), the wiring, the two Switches, the Stainless Steel Recovery Tank, and all other minor associated hardware, the cost of labor, the cost of R+D, packaging-packing, the cost of marketing, the dealer network, and there's probably another 1/2 dozen costs I'm forgetting, this probably doesn't leave a heck of a lot for profit.

I then suspect, this being said, that VPI is not exactly making tons of profit on the 16.5 RCM. Mark
 
I have been collecting vinyl since I was 13 years old (I'm 51 now) so I have done my share of hand cleaning, Disc washer, Last, etc.

I also think that the vacuum makes a big difference in removal of junk from LP's.

To clean my records I first use Todd the Vinyl Junkies Vinyl-Zyme. I let it sit for a minute or so, then I vacuum it off. After this I use a tooth brush to clean off any debris on the vacumm tube and add L'art Du Son cleaner to the record. I scrub this in while my VPI 16.5 spins and vacuum this solution off. I use one scrub brush with the cleaner. I then apply distilled water to rinse, scrub this in with a different brush and then vacuum the water off. Each time I use the vacuum I make sure to brush off any debris on the vacuum tube with a tooth brush between vacuuming. If I get a real dirty album, I apply steam from my Walgreens steamer prior to the above ritual.

I am here to tell you, records sound so much better cleaned now than when I did not have the vacuum in the mix.

AF
 
AFpay said:
I have been collecting vinyl since I was 13 years old (I'm 51 now) so I have done my share of hand cleaning, Disc washer, Last, etc.

I also think that the vacuum makes a big difference in removal of junk from LP's.

To clean my records I first use Todd the Vinyl Junkies Vinyl-Zyme. I let it sit for a minute or so, then I vacuum it off. After this I use a tooth brush to clean off any debris on the vacumm tube and add L'art Du Son cleaner to the record. I scrub this in while my VPI 16.5 spins and vacuum this solution off. I use one scrub brush with the cleaner. I then apply distilled water to rinse, scrub this in with a different brush and then vacuum the water off. Each time I use the vacuum I make sure to brush off any debris on the vacuum tube with a tooth brush between vacuuming. If I get a real dirty album, I apply steam from my Walgreens steamer prior to the above ritual.

I am here to tell you, records sound so much better cleaned now than when I did not have the vacuum in the mix.

AF
Click to expand...

L'art Du Son, eh? I have not tried that one. Does it have any unique characteristics that you like over other cleaners?
 
meggy said:
L'art Du Son, eh? I have not tried that one. Does it have any unique characteristics that you like over other cleaners?
Click to expand...

Yes. First it came highly recommended from a friend and it does not contain alcohol. Also the $45.00 bottle of concentrate makes 1 gallon of cleaner when mixed with distilled water. Not inexpensive, but not over the top either. 1 gallon last a long time.

AF
 
Rcm

A RCM makes a huge difference compared to hand cleaning. Other than a rare pop from a defect in the lp my collection is silent of background noise that was always there when I cleaned by hand useing the Discwasher brush/fluid. I keep telling AK members to check Audiogon for preowned rcms that sell for a fraction of the original list price, nothing wrong with buying new if you can afford it.
 
meggy said:
L'art Du Son, eh? I have not tried that one. Does it have any unique characteristics that you like over other cleaners?
Click to expand...

I know there's plenty of archived info over on the "Gon" about L'Art Du Son, and from what I can gather from my reads, it is a good high quality product.

How it compares to other "boutique" cleaners, I honestly cannot say, as I've never used it.

Probably as many of you know, I use the 3-step AIVS process, and haven't felt any inclination to switch cleaners.

Another player in the market again, is MFSL, as I understand from MucisDirect's site, thier new cleaners are now shipping. Hard to say at this point how they'll fare against others, but I gather a total re-formulation was done, with now an Enzyme Cleaner, and Pure Water Rinse.

Enzymes seem to be the new catch phrase with the latest products on the market, and I strongly suspect that those not containing an Enzyme in them may have more difficulty in dealing with very dirty-grimy LPs, or perhaps a better analogy, would be to say those that are contaminated with the number of different biological contaminants that seem to plague Vinyl. Mark
 
Several years ago I made my first attempt at a vac. fluid removal system with a shop vac crevice tool (as has been shown on here before by others). The improvement was good enough to justify an RCM.

Best money I have spent on anything vinyl related IMO.

Evan
 
markd51 said:
The RCM is only half the battle to clean records. In many instances, I believe the inefficiency of the cleaning fluids, and the final rinse folks are using are what is causing mucho grime-contaminants to remain in the groove. Mark
Click to expand...


I have seen numerous cleaning fluids being offered. How does one choose?
 
LarryYaremko said:
I have seen numerous cleaning fluids being offered. How does one choose?
Click to expand...

Hello Larry, This is a good question you ask, and I'll try helping, so maybe you'll find your own path, and what suits you, or should rather I say, suite your LPs the best.

For years, always getting catalogs (Always free) from various Audio Businesses, virtually all I mention are online, and will send a Catalog if you fill out a free Catalog Request. Places such as MusicDirect, Audio Advisor, Elusive Disc, just to name a few of the largest ones.

There are others, I think Garage-A-Records is one who markets Phoenix Cleaners, said to be good.

Once you know what's out there, then you can start to make some logical choices.

Next thing I did, was visit virtually every audio forum online, such as here, Audio Asylum, Audiogon, Steve Hoffman, Vinyl Engine, combed through thier archives, read threads about cleaners, methods.

When I saw something of interest, or seen something that wasn't clear to me, I didn't hesitate, nor feel bashful to contact many of the posters personally, ask some questions, and get thier input.

It took some homework of course, but that homework I felt paid off with selecting the right cleaners, and methods. To a large degree, I wasn't so much interested-concerned with cost (within a realistic price range of course)

I used to use LAST Cleaners-Products for many years, but it seemed they went just too far over the top with prices, and couldn't fathom paying $40-$45 for a 1/2 oz (Yes, that's not a typo) of thier Power Cleaner.

I once bought this product years ago, and thought for $23, that was awfully expensive. Now that's it's doubled in price, they can keep it. Mark
 
As others have already said, the VAC makes the difference. Even a simple home-made wand from a crevice tool will out-perform fully hand cleaning.

No matter which path you choose, the "scrub" steps won't change - only the fluid removal is improved by the VAC.

LarryYaremko said:
I have seen numerous cleaning fluids being offered. How does one choose?
Click to expand...
Empirical evidence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom