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Harman Kardon Citation Eleven and Twelve

seizer1975

new computer, old stereo
I rescued a Harmon Kardon Citation Eleven pre-amp and Citation Twelve amp from a basement in Massachusetts. After a thorough surface cleaning, a few blasts of canned air and some De-Oxit attention, I have a functional, and quite loud, system up-and-running. I have my Technics SL-1100A running through it currently, and am using a couple of Event studio monitors as speakers for now. Any suggestions on keeping this system in good working order going forward? I know enough about audio systems to get myself in trouble, but not enough that I am confident in keeping this system in tip-top shape going forward. Thanks for reading!
 
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Long ago a friend got a Citation 11 & 12 combo plus JBL 100's from an insurance settlement. His wife just punted him out so he parked the gear at my place for a while. The amp had no problem with his JBL's but sure didn't like my Advents. Had to keep the vacuum cleaner on stand-by to cool down the heatsink - hose from exhaust blowing cool air through it.

Eight ohms are good - less than eight, not so good.
 
I have this pair..fully restored of course...quite dynamic and musical with a few different sets of speakers including relatively inefficient Bozak 302s. The key to vintage audio is proper restoration...they really must go hand in hand otherwise you are missing out. Caps, fast diodes, allignment ..ALL matter.. no significant heat whatsoever in my pair..
 
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The key to vintage audio is proper restoration.

This can be defined by using parts. The right parts. Looking into correcting my 12 of some startup issues and am wondering about the coupling caps. I would be nice to find some that are the same size as original. What did you end up doing?
 
Nelson Pass wrote an article for Audio Amateur on modifying the Citation 12. The start-up thump is normal and a design flaw. I used to have a 12 running with an Accuphase C200. Static shock would send the C200 into ultrasonic oscillation which the 12 would amplify until it overheated. It took me a while to figure out that one!
 
Nelson Pass wrote an article for Audio Amateur on modifying the Citation 12. The start-up thump is normal and a design flaw. I used to have a 12 running with an Accuphase C200. Static shock would send the C200 into ultrasonic oscillation which the 12 would amplify until it overheated. It took me a while to figure out that one!
Static shock??? OMgoodness. The poor 12 being subjected that. Yea I am dealing with the 12 startup/ Simplest thing for me to do right now is protect the speakers past power up with a speaker switch.
Design flaw?? maybe needed a delay relay setup.
 
Hello folks!

Very glad i found thsi thread about Citation11 & Pre-Amp Citation12 (mine is the Deluxe), I just put my hands on a extremely rare MINT condition, it looks like brand new. I'm having though an issue with it. The man I bought the bundle from assured me that they are working 100% and he is a true gentleman and I believed him because I also bought from him the amazing very rare EPICURE Tower model 1000 in super mint condition. And these I went and listened to them at his place personally. But hadn't have the chance that to listen to his Citation11&12 Delue bundle. But hey while I was there (was my mistake always take the time to listen to all items you're purchasing before buy in case of any surprises), I was so excited mostly about the EPI 1000 tower that when I mentioned me the HK C11&12deluxe, the way he kept all his stuff in super mint condition, I trusted him that all were working great. And when I went to pick up the C11 & 12Deluxe, brought it home with the full original manuals, he even didn't unplug the wires that connects both units so that way it would be easier for me to just plug the POWER cables of both unit in my electric bar and just have to plug a pair of speakers and get going.

And what is what I did.. got home, start plugging the a pair of JENSEN speakers, and I decided to use SYSTEM1. For those familiar with C11, instead of being connection SPEAKER1 or SPAKERA and SPEAKERB, its System1 & Sys2 right? So far so good.

And of course back in the days, for whatever reason Harmon K, decided to go differently on how also they label the Speakers inputs connections, instead of being RIGH (+ & -) and LEFT (+ & -), they instead go with (RIGHT = for Positive & GND = for Negative) correct? But either way I have the origina manual so I made sure I checked that and make sure.

The fun part started when I decided to plug the first speakers, the RIGHT side one. Meaning on SYS1 column shows: LEFT-GND then GND-RIGHT. So in my speaker wire it should be: RED wire goes to RIGHT & BLACK (or negative) goes to GND. But I noticed right away that when I plugged the Positive Wire (RED in the RIGHT connection) I heard a big HUM sound and when I plugged the Negative (GND) and start playing my Tablette plugged in AUX1 nothing was coming out just the HUM sound.
Worth mentioning that also while I was trying to connect the speakers wires o the RIGHT (positive connector of SYS1) i saw little "lightning electric spikes" happening as well when I decided to double check if i had well connected the wire etc.. just to make sure WHY i wasn't getting any sound beside the HUM.

But when I plugged the LEFT speakers wire, the left speaker was working but then again I started smelling like "burning or over-heating smell". And I found that very very very weird.

Then of course I disconnected the RIGHT speaker just to be stop hearing the buzz/hum sound and re-check my speaker wire. I know the WIRES I was using to connect my speakers are working and good because I used those to plug other speakers and they are working,

So I decided to also to plug again the RIGHT speakers and again the HUM/BUZZ sound is there only the LEFT speakers is coming out with sound but while I was connecting again the RIGHT SPEAKER WIRE I always had to turn off everything, plug the wires before turning especially the PWR AMP C12 otherwise 'lightning electric spike" would happen and i would start smelling that "burning smell" coming and even at time I saw a kind of BIG fire lightning happening that I just shut down eveything from y PWR bar.

And also before this happens the big electric lightning (just like when sometimes you touch two wires together and you get those electric light spikes), when I had the RIGHT speaker connected and was hearing just the BUZZ/HUM sound, its like something wrong was going with the Citation12 Pre-amp (because only when the C12 is powered that you hear that buzz/sound on the RIGHT speaker) that I noticed like a big electric power was sent to my JENSEN RIGHT speaker that I felt a little "electric puck" sent to the WOOFER, and even saw the WOFFER move back & forth physically and hear thast "puck" sound and it killed the WOOFER sound. And right after that happened, I decided to TEST my JENSEN SPEAKER with another normal RECEIVER like Realsitic 2000D, plugged that RIGHT speaker and all i was hearing is the Mids & highs but not the woofer. To be sure really sure I plugged the LEFT speaker (other JENSEN) to the Realistic and it played very well, woofers, mid & tweeters worked as a normal speaker should. So I deducted that something happened and indeed that i heard and saw that 'puck and the woofer moving" seemed like a electric shock was sent or happened (for what reason I don;t know yet) and it shut down the speaker.

So, so far in SYS1, only the LEFT side works very very well. But when I plug anything on the RIGHT Inputs, I not only get that BUZZ /HUM but its like it HEATS UP the C12 ro start smelling a burning electric thing coming up.

Decided to test SYSTEM2 (for speaker B) but this time went on and pull up very cheap speakers that of course are minimum 8 OHMS that way if anything happens to them I won't pull my hair like the JENSEN and did the same TESTS, and same thing, but this time I plugged the LEFT speaker first and LEFT speakers works like a charm. the Moment I plugged the RIGHT speaker a big BUZZ-HUM sound and NO SOUND AT ALL coming out of the speakers and smelling that "burn" type of of but this time didn't let it last long and didn't take any chances. The moment I plugged the RIGHT speaker to the RIGHT side of System2 and heard that BUZZ/HUM sound I told myself not even worth going forward because I'm gonna end up BLOWING the C11&C12 Deluxe. Better I stop there and come to share this experience with you guys hoping someone how had these unit can help me out and guide me because it seems that I'll need too bring the bundle to a TECH to check it out

Any help, inputs is very welcome and would be much appreciated.

Sorry for the long thread but Had to give as much info I can.

Wishing you guys a great positive Friday ;-)

Best
 
Plugging in speakers whilst an amplifier is turned on is a bad idea. There's a high likelihood of inadvertently shorting out the speaker terminals and/or -- if there's a source signal -- causing sparks which may cause electrical interference that can be amplified enough to damage speakers.

Sounds like the right channel outputs might be shorted and putting high current DC on the speaker terminals, but there may be other problems. Systematic and careful troubleshooting is needed.
 
Plugging in speakers whilst an amplifier is turned on is a bad idea. There's a high likelihood of inadvertently shorting out the speaker terminals and/or -- if there's a source signal -- causing sparks which may cause electrical interference that can be amplified enough to damage speakers.

Hello @DaveVoorhis

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I think this is exactly what happened as I'm not that familiar with using a receiver with a PRE-AMP. Lets crossfinger that I can still restore my Damage JENSEN speaker because really dig them ;-) So the lesson here also is always plug your speakers before turning ON the POWER AMP to avoid any electrical interferences or sparks and of course
never un-plug neither while the pwr amp is on.

Sounds like the right channel outputs might be shorted and putting high current DC on the speaker terminals, but there may be other problems. Systematic and careful troubleshooting is needed.

And indeed it seems that there is something with the RIGHT channel outputs and i'll need to send it to a TECH for very careful troubleshooting.

I'll also gonna call the amazing gentleman to let him know whats happening so he knows that unfortunately his beauty isn't in full working condition. Maybe it was last he used it but I recall, even when I went to listen to the EPI 1000 tower, he didn't have them hooked up with the HK C11&C12 Deluxe, he used a powerful but normal nowadays TV/Video/Audio receiver all in one type of thing.

Again, huge thank you for your time and expertise ;-)

Any other inputs will of course be welcome so also get to learn more

Great friday to all
 
STOP Read all of this.
Unplug both the PreAmp 11 and Amp 12. Remove all the wiring to speakers and interconnect cabling. Especially the System 1&2 cables.

Set the power amp aside so the Capacitors will discharge. It takes time so do not be in a hurry. Take the 11 Preamp to a table and remove the top cover. it should have a number of small black screws. Give it a good visual inspection and sniff for burned components. If you do not see anything burned get some compressed air and blow out any dust. Post pictures for any thing you feel the need to.

Look at the system 1 & 2 wiring and connections inside the case. Notice it is seperate from the rest of the Preamp wiring. It has the special cable and the speaker terminals to connect to. Thats it. It can be used for a standalone application but you do not need it and I would not use it until you do need it.

Keep it simple. Inputs & outputs. Inputs to aux1 with your digital music source should be ok. Output from the Preamp to a Amplifier (the 12 Deluxe) are done from the pre out RCA jacks, to the inputs to the 12. There are two sets of pre amps outputs which can be used for two different power amps. (Read the instructions) These work in unison. Maintain left/right and polarity.

The speakers connect to the 12. Left, Right are marked one on each side of the Amp as well as the inputs are on each side of the amp. Maintain polarity..

If everything in the 11 looks ok. You do not smell anything cooked you can replace the cover. Hopefully you now understand the system 1&2 configuration.
(read the instructions)

The 12 may be in trouble from what you wrote. Removing the cover for inspection is more complex then the 11 and I do not recommend you do it unless you know what you are doing. Unplugged it can still be shocking. But if there are no smells coming from it you might be ok.

The power cord to the 12 should be plugged into switched outlets on the 11. This way when you use the power switch. It powers up both the amp and preamp. You can also control the 12 with a surge protector or switched outlet but it must have a switch control. You cannot just plug it into a outlet. DO NOT PLUG THE 12 IN TO A POWER OUTLET.

Now if all this is good so far and it is connected properly the preamp can be plugged into a switched surge protector that is turned off.

Now you can control the power to Preamp and also utilize the power-on switch to power up your system. When in doubt of something unplug from power.

The 12 will immediately apply full power to the speakers and you will hear this. You may also hear a slight hum. Do not stack these two units. The 11 will pick up inducted transformer sounds from the 12. The 12 is powerful and it must be respected.

Any time you are wiring up any sound equipment you never apply power until it is wired right. Read the instructions. ALSO Always turn volume down until you want to hear music. Its a good habit to turn it all the way down when switching inputs. Then turn it up to listening level.
 
Hello @Champco

Thank you very very much for taking the time to reply and share all these detailed notes about this bundle and how to go about it and run it. This week-end i'll make sure to sit down and follow step by step what you wrote here. Of course I'll about opening the 11 & the 12 as I'm not the "Tech type" guy" but I'll see till where I can go deep about because if its too hard for to open their cases out I'll for sure send it to a Tech who is familiar on doing so. But I'll try first to follow these steps

I think one of the biggest mistakes I made was plugin the 12 into a PWR OUTLET. And say that when I brought both units, the gentleman had left everything wired he had them plugged at his house and It came to my mind when I set up the bundle at my place and was about to try them, i told myself, if the 12 is plugged in the 11 there must be a reason but than again, I told myslef maybe he just connected the pwr wires in the 11 just so they don't fall out you know.... I should've listened to my instinct at first. My bad

I honestly just hope I didn't blow either of both units and that whatever it is if there's anything wrong It can be fixed and won't cost me huge $$$$

Again, thank you so so so much for taking the time to share all these detailed inputs.

Will give it a try and will of course keep you updated

Best,
 
Hello @Champco

Just want to tell you that I'm doing the "TEST" this week slowly and I'll report all this week-end.

But quick question, can the Citation11 be used alone just like a normal receiver? Lets say just like a normal audio receiver like a pioneer Sx-780 without the need of a PWR amp like the C12??? From what I see it should be right? Just curious

Thank you & have a fabulous day
 
But quick question, can the Citation11 be used alone just like a normal receiver? Lets say just like a normal audio receiver like a pioneer Sx-780 without the need of a PWR amp like the C12??? From what I see it should be right? Just curious
The Citation 11 is not a receiver -- it contains no tuner. It is strictly a preamplifier, and as such emits only a line-level output. It could conceivably power headphones, but not through the front-panel headphone jacks, only via the preamplifier outputs.

The speaker connections on the back of the Citation 11 are designed for use only when the Citation 12 power amplifier is connected. In that case, the speaker output connector from the Citation 12 speaker connections goes into the appropriate connector on the Citation 11, where it internally connects to the speaker selection switch and the headphone jacks & speaker terminals. They are not connected to the rest of the preamplifier circuitry.
 
The Citation 11 is not a receiver -- it contains no tuner. It is strictly a preamplifier, and as such emits only a line-level output. It could conceivably power headphones, but not through the front-panel headphone jacks, only via the preamplifier outputs.

The speaker connections on the back of the Citation 11 are designed for use only when the Citation 12 power amplifier is connected. In that case, the speaker output connector from the Citation 12 speaker connections goes into the appropriate connector on the Citation 11, where it internally connects to the speaker selection switch and the headphone jacks & speaker terminals. They are not connected to the rest of the preamplifier circuitry.

Thank you so much @DaveVoorhis for clarifying this. Really appreciate. So C11 always need a PWR amp connected with to be able to run. Its like a controller but needs power ;-)

Great positive day to you all

Cheers ;-)
 
Hello @Champco ,

Here I am back and I found out an issue with the Citation 12 Deluxe. My tech went over the C11 & C12 and discovered that there's an issue with the C12 and its Capacitors. These ones exactly:

CAPACITOR 6000uF-50V
HK part # 31524564
Dimension: Diamètre 45mm, hauteur 75mm

Was wondering if anyone would know a place that would sell the exact original ones as I'd love to be able to keep everything in its original state. Worst come to worst, what would be the best ones that would be as close as possible to original and would fit perfectly and would not decrease the sound quality but would be as the original or improves even more.

Thank you for any input, crossing finger that someone out there have or still distribute the original ones.

Happy Easter to ALL,

Best,
 
DCM952U075EB2PC at Mouser?
Original ones will not be there and 45mm diameter is very limited.
Myself, I do not want to spend over 100 Euro's total incl tax for four caps, so I leave originals in for now.
 
DCM952U075EB2PC at Mouser?
Original ones will not be there and 45mm diameter is very limited.
Myself, I do not want to spend over 100 Euro's total incl tax for four caps, so I leave originals in for now.

Hi @gslikker

Thanks for responding. I hear you and trust me if it was up to me i'd keep originals but my Tech told me that they need to be changed, i guess their burnt or busted and need to be changed. That is why I'm looking to either (if possible of course) find original ones (which I doubt I'll find as its almost impossible due to the age of the C11 & C12 deluxe) so was wondering if I had to change those big capacitors and the small ones, which audiophile Capacitors should I go with that would lets say give me the same quality or even better than original. Of course I laways like to keep things original but if its impossible to find, well gonna have to find better replacement.


And here if you look at this page, yo'll see a few images of the C12 (mine is the Deluxe) but I guess they're pretty similar but my Tech sent me these pictures and told that the BIG BLUE capacitors need to be changed.

And all 8 small capaictor in the PCB as well need to be changed.

Linl: https://www.updatemydynaco.com/Citation12.html

Now need to find great or similar quality capacitors that will give the C12 Deluxe justice...

Any feedback is very much welcome

Thanks
 
If the caps are original they almost certainly have to be replaced. Any low ESR electrolytic of approximately the same or slightly higher capacitance and the same or any higher voltage rating will be fine. Finding caps of the same diameter will be difficult; if you can find smaller diameter they'll be fine, and can be shimmed with rubber, e.g., bike innertube, to fit the bracket.

For the 8 smaller caps on the PCB, look for the same or slightly higher capacitance and the same or any higher voltage rating. The diameter is non-critical as long as it fits the space. The lead spacing is non-critical; the cap can stand slightly off the board to allow for differences in lead spacing.
 
What about Solen parts? I know here in Canada lots of Techs do use them and praise their capacitors and parts as very very good, excellent or top notch???

Link: https://solen.ca/

They got all kind of parts, capacitors, drivers etc...
 
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