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Harmon Kardon Quality???

Bigerik said:
Harman Kardon peaked in the late 80's to early 90's. Their seventies stuff was by no way their best. Yes, I have had every era and type of hk gear (I was also the first hk fan on AK). Matti Otala got involved with them in the late 70's, and that's when they really took off in terms of sound quality. Their mid 80's integrated amps and separates still sound really great.

While they aren't quite what they once were, their sound quality is still better then average. They still turn out really great quality gear, like the hk990 which is about as good a quality integrated amp as any mass manufacturer has made.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Fans of the Citation II just might debate the pre-eminence of the Matti Otala-era hardware. The latter was good stuff, too, though.
I agree about the '70s stuff, though -- good for its time and original price, though, most of it was...
 
HK is not what it used to be. The same can be said of most other players who survived into the BPC era: Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer, Sony, etc. You can still find good stuff out there but it requires much more careful shopping than in days of yore.
 
That's a pretty broad generalization and in my opinion, doesn't do justice to the superb range of gear made between 1981 and 1985.

Their designs were physically attractive, very well made and offered performance way in excess of the more ancient HK gear. Take the PM660 from 1982/3 integrated which will outperform in every regard the Citation you mentioned.

As for the Citation XX and XXP of those years- well, I rest my case.



4Play said:
Any H/K component before 1976 would be the ones to acquire.
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I think you guy's need to understand one thing
Capitalism has destroyed a lot of brands.

What that means simply is the Share Holder's decide where a company goes ,because they want return on their investment. To capitalise on Capitalism ,mass produce ,over produce for as cheap as possible and get top dollar for it.

Harmon Kardon isn't the only company to have suffered this.

When a big box store says they want 5million units/yr , the answer is "Yes Sir"
Not.
'well it has to go through quality control , revision's have to be thought out,we have to talk to our component manufacturer's , we can supply a couple hundred thousand for sure."

Personally when I saw Harmon Kardon on a set of computer speakers ,my jaw dropped , when they sounded like crap on a Asus Xonar sound card ,I was floored.
When I tore the unit down and saw a generic amplifier circuit available on the Fairchild website..
I lost all respect for Harmon Kardon.

I always keepmy peepers open for pre 90's gear though. good is good ,,age makes it better .
 
restorer-john said:
That's a pretty broad generalization and in my opinion, doesn't do justice to the superb range of gear made between 1981 and 1985.

Their designs were physically attractive, very well made and offered performance way in excess of the more ancient HK gear. Take the PM660 from 1982/3 integrated which will outperform in every regard the Citation you mentioned.

As for the Citation XX and XXP of those years- well, I rest my case.
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How would you compare the Citation 16?
 
Jayrosc said:
So the guy at the local Hi Fi hut tells me that Harmon Kardon is a once great company that fell from grace decades ago and now produces crap. While this may be true, I wouldn't mind getting other opinions. Looking at a Harman Kardon HK3480 stereo receiver later today. Built in 2006, some guy will take $100 for it. Gotta say that I'm hoping the claim that this is a good company gone bad is exaggerated. Any thoughts?
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That's a good deal on a good receiver, I'd get it.

I have a n AVR230 and it works perfectly, had another stereo receiver too and it worked fine, no problems... Sure you take a gamble on anything you buy, but that's a solid, powerful, well measuring receiver that sounds great for a low price... You aren't going to find much that stacks up to it in performance at that price.

Sure, it won't stand up to stuff for more, and you may have issues... But it's costing you $100.. Some people spend more than that on cables. In $100 territory you don't have a lot of choice.. SQ is good and it ha 120 honest watts per channel... Gamble I'd happily take.
 
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Jayrosc said:
So the guy at the local Hi Fi hut tells me that Harmon Kardon is a once great company that fell from grace decades ago and now produces crap. While this may be true, I wouldn't mind getting other opinions. Looking at a Harman Kardon HK3480 stereo receiver later today. Built in 2006, some guy will take $100 for it. Gotta say that I'm hoping the claim that this is a good company gone bad is exaggerated. Any thoughts?
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Harmon just moved their flagship Headphone Company AKG manufacturing to China, "but they will still be designed in Austria and the part are from their traditional suppliers".

The AKG 701-2 is considered one of the top headphones on the market, and certainly price performance it's hard to argue that any are better than.

IMHO it won't be too long before the China operation finds China suppliers who can "make all the parts cheaper and the same quality" on paper. The engineering jobs won't be far behind.

If they only wanted cheap assembly they could have gone a few hours east to Romania etc.....

How many years before AKG is next to Magnavox and RCA at my local hardware store??? :tears:

"After he left government in 1978,[3] he created Harman International Industries and reacquired a number of businesses he sold to Beatrice. The company continued its growth plan with a string of acquisitions throughout the 1980s that pushed Harman International's sales from about $80 million in 1981 to more than $200 million by 1986, and then to more than $500 million by 1989".

"Harman International Industries, Incorporated is an American audio and infotainment equipment company. The company designs, manufactures and markets audio and infotainment products for the car, the home, theaters and venues, as well as electronics for audio professionals. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harman_International_Industries
 
The funny thing about China.

Regardless it cost money to ship from there to here, and when your shipping speakers ,your shipping a lot of air for the same cube cost.

As soon as America gets its rare earth elements manufacturing in swing, and She is with earnest ,especially with China controlling like 80% of the global supply, wont be long before manufacturing jobs start coming back.

We are on the cusp of something huge , for once the cost of material and fuel will dictate where a product is made.

Unless China starts building it own fleet of nuclear powered freightliners...but then what nation in their right mind would allow them in their water's

I know ...way off topic.. sorry..
But..
On-shoring is a real development to watch.
 
Don't forget the coking coal.

The Chinese mafia was shipping something like 30% of the rare earths out of China off the books. Pretty sure the US, EU and Japan were having coordinated discussion with China about over playing their hand with the minerals, since they also need to import a lot of stuff and need customers.

What was the latest corruption revelation, govt official that stashed 20-30B off shore that they could find..

Perhaps AKG moved manufacturing of headphones to China since that is where the rare earth magnets come from.

Samarium Cobalt &

Neodymium Iron Boron

"Neodymium Iron Boron (NdFeB) is another type of rare earth magnetic material. This material has similar properties as the Samarium Cobalt except that it is more easily oxidized and generally doesn't have the same temperature resistance. NdFeB magnets also have the highest energy products approaching 50MGOe. These materials are costly and are generally used in very selective applications due to the cost. Cost is also driven by existing intellectual property rights of the developers of this type of magnet. Their high energy products lend themselves to compact designs that result in innovative applications and lower manufacturing costs. NdFeB magnets are highly corrosive. Surface treatments have been developed that allow them to be used in most applications. These treatments include gold, nickel, zinc and tin plating and epoxy resin coating."
 
in my earlier post I failed to mention I was a happy owner of 2 HK citation 16a amps for many.many yrs.Along with a pioneer spec 1 preamp those HK amps from the 70's weighed 65 lbs each,dual power suppys,and could drive any load.I ran an original pair of AR9 4 ohm speakers bi amped with the 2 hk 16a's .big power and great sound for SS
hunter
 
Re: HK quality -- can't speak to the newer stuff, but the 385i receiver I bought in '85 (30 wpc, second from BOL at the time) is still going strong.
 
I think the Citation 16 is one hell of a vintage amp, one that could run double duty in a pro situation or at home, but it is getting rather old, approaching 40 years and I'd be giving it a mass overhaul if it was my main amp.

Superampman said:
How would you compare the Citation 16?
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H/K Citation 22 - old amp with LED "power meter" displays - works like a champ - used bridged to mono for my sub
hk740 silver faced receiver used on my computer as an monitor amp w/rarely used tuner - once I cleaned the pots, worked like a champ.
New h/k FL CD changer (2 of them) noisy mechanism, sounded good, mechanical death after a couple years.
h/k AVR7300 - pricey top of the line receiver, died - had to send to Harman in CA to get fixed as local authorized repair shop was clueless - died again in 6 month - boat anchor!

Had a couple lesser h/k AVR receivers - all were somewhat "iffy".

Stay with the older h/k gear and you will be happier.
 
I still use my HK FL8450 CDP in my HT system; keep it maintained...sounds great.
My AVR 85, now in the closet, was a great AVR receiver; both units, from the mid-90's.

The HK990, sold out on the HK site...is an outstanding integrated; a Stereophile recommended component. Hopefully there are more 990's (or better) in the pipeline.
Jeff
 
I have a few HK receivers. The hk avr 7000 hk avr 210 and hk avr 235. The only one that gave me a problem was the 235. the hk avr 7000 is a monster. Runs my Dahlquist DQ-10 speakers like a champ.
 
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