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Duncan L

Duncan L

New Member
Musician and music lover here, just joined the forum. I have some basic questions, most of which can probably be answered via links to other threads - I'm just learning the ropes of this message board.

I love listening to vinyl but I'm concerned that I am not getting all I can out of my system. I currently have an MCS 6503, which I understand is essentially equal to a Technics SL-23, and I bought it used from Merle's Record Rack in Orange, CT where Mike there assured me he had refurbished it and everything worked fine.

That goes into the phono input of a 1981 Luxman L-120A, which I understand is a decent piece of gear with a fine phono preamp. I bought that off of craigslist from a guy for a good price, $250, and feel comfortable that his assurances that everything worked well were sincere.

This is routed into a refurbished pair of Advent loudspeakers which I inherited from my father - Davidson Electronics in Plainview, NY on Long Island did the re-coning, etc, and that was only a few years ago so I'm pretty sure everything that was done then is still in good shape.

I have a few questions: firstly, the speed of the MCS turntable, even with the speed dial turned all the way up, is woefully slow. Whether this is a belt, capacitor, oxidation etc. issue is beyond me. All of the resources I have consulted seem to suggest that a basic knowledge of electronics is required to fix this. Should I bring this to a repair shop?

Secondly, I only recently learned that I was running the MCS, a moving magnet, into the Luxman which was on a moving coil setting (There are 3, MM, MC-1, MC-2). the soudn was awful and too loud. Is there any way that I might ahve damaged the phono preamp on the luxman running it incorrectly like this? Is there a way to tell whether the Luxman is running properly? I enjoy listening, but I am worried that I'm not getting everything I could out of my system.

/end rant. Thanks for reading and for any responses this post garners. Peace!
 
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Duncan L said:
Musician and music lover here, just joined the forum. I have some basic questions, most of which can probably be answered via links to other threads - I'm just learning the ropes of this message board.

I love listening to vinyl but I'm concerned that I am not getting all I can out of my system. I currently have an MCS 6503, which I understand is essentially equal to a Technics SL-23, and I bought it used from Merle's Record Rack in Orange, CT where Mike there assured me he had refurbished it and everything worked fine.

That goes into the phono input of a 1981 Luxman L-120A, which I understand is a decent piece of gear with a fine phono preamp. I bought that off of craigslist from a guy for a good price, $250, and feel comfortable that his assurances that everything worked well were sincere.

This is routed into a refurbished pair of Advent loudspeakers which I inherited from my father - Davidson Electronics in Plainview, NY on Long Island did the re-coning, etc, and that was only a few years ago so I'm pretty sure everything that was done then is still in good shape.

I have a few questions: firstly, the speed of the MCS turntable, even with the speed dial turned all the way up, is woefully slow. Whether this is a belt, capacitor, oxidation etc. issue is beyond me. All of the resources I have consulted seem to suggest that a basic knowledge of electronics is required to fix this. Should I bring this to a repair shop?

Secondly, I only recently learned that I was running the MCS, a moving magnet, into the Luxman which was on a moving coil setting (There are 3, MM, MC-1, MC-2). the soudn was awful and too loud. Is there any way that I might ahve damaged the phono preamp on the luxman running it incorrectly like this? Is there a way to tell whether the Luxman is running properly? I enjoy listening, but I am worried that I'm not getting everything I could out of my system.

/end rant. Thanks for reading and for any responses this post garners. Peace!
Click to expand...

First off, welcome to AK, Duncan. FWIW there is a separate Introduction forum for new members (like me). My suggestion would be to download the service manual for your table. Check vinyl engine. If your table is anything like my SL-D202 , there are adjustments under the platter to set the range of your pitch adjustment wheel. It's a very easy process. As far as damaging your receiver by running MM cart into MC input: I doubt it. I did the same thing once with a Rotel (I think). No damage. Just sounded awful. Good luck!
 
Thanks Jazz! I will download manual for the MCS table. I guess one of the general questions is - is the quality of all 3 of my components comparable? I would think the Luxman amp is the "nicest" piece I have, followed by the Advents, and then the MCS table?

Btw the cartridge on the table is a shure R25xt.
 
Duncan L said:
Thanks Jazz! I will download manual for the MCS table. I guess one of the general questions is - is the quality of all 3 of my components comparable? I would think the Luxman amp is the "nicest" piece I have, followed by the Advents, and then the MCS table?

Btw the cartridge on the table is a shure R25xt.
Click to expand...

I did not see a manual for the MCS but there is one for the SL-23 which will serve the same. It mentions two adjustment screws for the speed but there's no diagram showing their location. I would look under the platter or the bottom cover. I did see that the pitch adjustment range is only 6% for that table. I normally see 10% with other tables.
 
The L-120a is a premium unit. The Advents are regular, popularly priced speakers and the MCS will play records and do a fine job when working correctly. But both these two are a bit below the Luxman.

Many love Advents, some use two pair, stacked Advents, top pair upside down, stack on 10" stands. Others don't like the comb filtering that happens with the tweeters close like that. Two per side is way more than twice as good for those that like em.

Rock what you have and keep an eye out for CL deals and Search here on ak and go get something that seems cheap and good before asking about it, in the Dollars and Sense forum, when talking value, to keep others from getting there first.

A move to table with a removable headshell might be helpful if you are going to change cartridges at times. But get its speed fixed and enjoy as you look around for an opportunistic buy to upgrade if you think you need to.
 
Blue Shadow said:
A move to table with a removable headshell might be helpful if you are going to change cartridges at times. But get its speed fixed and enjoy as you look around for an opportunistic buy to upgrade if you think you need to.
Click to expand...
Every picture I've seen of the SL-23 shows a removable headshell, which would be consistent with all other Technics turntables I've seen with an S-shaped tonearm. I assume the MCS is the same. It's a perfectly serviceable turntable; but before you start playing with the adjustments, make sure the belt is tight. Remove the rubber mat, then turn the platter so you can see the belt and the motor pulley through one of the holes in the platter. Hold the pulley with one hand to prevent it from turning and try to turn the platter with the other. If the platter turns with little resistance, then the belt is slipping and you need a new one.
 
swechsler said:
. I assume the MCS is the same.
Click to expand...
i just read that the MCS versions were non-removable and saw a pic. Not the op's table so don't know, but put that out there.


Don't worry we'll get him hooked and reel him in. He will get more gear.
 
Blue Shadow said:
i just read that the MCS versions were non-removable and saw a pic. Not the op's table so don't know, but put that out there.
Click to expand...
You're correct, and I shouldn't have assumed. There's also one other significant difference, that the MCS only has a single pitch-control knob, while the SL-23 has one for each speed. I wonder if that model was made specific for JC Penney, or it was also sold in other markets.

At any rate, having a non-removable headshell doesn't preclude replacing the cartridge (it just makes it a little more difficult), so I wouldn't replace the turntable just for that; only if it was truly an upgrade in other areas as well.

I just reread the OP, and realized that I missed that the @Duncan L purchased the turntable from a store. If it hasn't been too long, before doing anything, he should go back to the store and ask the seller to fix it, especially as the latter said that it had been fully refurbished.

ETA: hmm, the headshell in that turntable also appears to have very little adjustment for stylus overhang, so yeah, not great...

s-l1600.jpg



Just for comparison, here's an SL-23:

s-l1600.jpg
 
Starting a vinyl experience can be had anyway one has the means to do so. Hand me downs and cheap/free pick ups don't cost a lot and can give some satisfaction to the user. All-in-all one can put this type of set up in a hold pattern and enjoy. The primary exception being the condition of the stylus. A cheap worn out stylus won't give the same results as a cheap new stylus.


How do you see yourself as a vinyl practitioner? If you feel you will become involved, read up and start off with something a little nicer than a fixed headshell MCS. If you just want to dabble and don't plan on putting any more into it than $1 records and occasional listening, just get a new cartridge such as an Audio Technica AT3600 for $20, clean up the speed pot on the MCS (might fix ya) and enjoy.
 
Tiver said:
Starting a vinyl experience can be had anyway one has the means to do so. Hand me downs and cheap/free pick ups don't cost a lot and can give some satisfaction to the user. All-in-all one can put this type of set up in a hold pattern and enjoy. The primary exception being the condition of the stylus. A cheap worn out stylus won't give the same results as a cheap new stylus.
Click to expand...
IMO the OP has the makings of a decent starter system. Assuming he can get the turntable working properly, I'd recommend that he listen to the system for a few months to see how he likes it, then recognize what, if any, deficiencies there are in the sound, rather than upgrading for upgrading's sake. If it turns out that the stylus is worn, I'd replace that to start rather than purchasing a new cartridge. The tracking force of the cartridge on this turntable is higher than I generally like, but other than that seems to be decent (it appears to be a model that was sold by Radio Shack). If needed, Amazon has a replacement stylus for about $22 after shipping.
 
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swechsler said:
IMO the OP has the makings of a decent starter system. Assuming he can get the turntable working properly, I'd recommend that he listen to the system for a few months to see how he likes it, then recognize what, if any, deficiencies there are in the sound, rather than upgrading for upgrading's sake. If it turns out that the stylus is worn, I'd replace that to start rather than purchasing a new cartridge. The tracking force of the cartridge on this turntable is higher than I generally like, but other than that seems to be decent (it appears to be a model that was sold by Radio Shack). If needed, Amazon has a replacement stylus for about $22 after shipping.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I was suggesting outside the replacement for the RS cart. You are correct about the replacement on that and the OP's mention of that escaped me as I posted.

I fully agree with putting some time into listening before spending more than the $20 or so, but I also feel that setup doesn't properly support the expense of vinyl once the cost gets beyond that of $1-$3 records.
 
swechsler said:
At any rate, having a non-removable headshell doesn't preclude replacing the cartridge (it just makes it a little more difficult), so I wouldn't replace the turntable just for that; only if it was truly an upgrade in other areas as well.
Click to expand...
yes, he can roll with the MCS but I was just setting the hook so we get another collector enjoying the gear of old. Heck his amp has low output moving coil input which is switchable to direct, but only the one phono input.

The system as it stands is a top quality 100 watt per channel amp, speakers many really like and don't want for more and a pretty decent table that should have a decent cartridge attached. He should enjoy it then maybe upgrade the cartridge if he doesn't find a nice table cheap, this allowing him to hear the improvement. Then if he gets a good cartridge and finds a nice table the cartridge can move to the new table. Then we get him into some Time Windows or other couple hundred buck damn fine speakers and he will be spinning and grinning.
 
Wow! Thank you to all for the wonderful advice.

An update: I called my local stereo repairguy and he advised as I had feared - that to repair the MCS would be more than it was worth. I have no attachment to this piece, and as far as the recommendation about going back to the guy who sold it to me, I'm not in that area anymore and it would be hard to travel there. I can certainly call him and ask but it has been several years. What I do know is that the cartridge and stylus are in good shape. Its the speed issue.

I do have some other turntables floating around - a Dual CS 431, and maybe others. my brothers DJ'd for a bit.

I'm considering just buying a good turntable to move forward with. Changing the cartridges on them is an issue.

Trying to get into the belly of the MCS and adjust it is daunting...

Blue Shadow said:
spinning and grinning.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't mind playing some tunes from Clyde Frazier's halcyon days...
 
Replacement belts are cheap (I'm reasonably certain that 23.6" is the correct size, but double check before you order). And replacing it is easy. Try that before discarding the turntable.
 
Vinylengine.com needs you as a registered user and once logged in you have access to the owners manuals and service manuals for piles and piles of record playing equipment. With those documents downloaded you can look over any issue you may gave and ask on ak. Folks here will walk you through each and every step of anything you might want to do to a TT including teaching you to use a voltmeter and how to solder so you can go in and rebuild the electronics board to bring a table back to life.

But we don't need to do that now, just see about you MCS speed issues which may be as simple as an adjustment and introducing you to changing the belt and mention cartridge changes.

The belt is usually detailed in the owners manual because a table comes with the platter not in place. Cartridge changes are also I the OM as these are commonly replaced by owners.

No need to get you exact model paperwork (pdfs) but something close. Most tables are very similar.

Once armed with some info and finding some questions, just ask.

Where are you, northeast? Some folks help out in person when covid doesn't rule life

You can drop 25 bucks to subscribe and have access to the buying and selling forums of Barter Town. Turntables show up there all TTs time and you could what folks have in you'd price range.

I would spin any external speed control knobs full range a dozen times to see if that cleans it dough to work properly.
 
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