Help a newbie with a restoration?

[Wasif]

Hi!

We recently got an old record player (Tonola 1214 from the 70s) after my girlfriends grandfather passed away. It holds a lot of sentimental value and we would like to keep it and listen to his hold records as a way of remembering him.

However we would like to make it work with some simple speakers with 3.5mm port. The player has a DIN-5 female connector and not much else. I've tried a converter DIN to RCA to 3.5 but it's not working. I'm suspecting there something internally that isn't working, which leads me to my question.

I have no idea how to open it up, the 2 screws that are there only seem to make it sit tighter in the case and when they are loose something seems to stop me from just lifiting it out and flipping it over. I checked the back and there were no screw of other fastenings that can be loosened there.

If anyone has any obvious observation of what I might be missing or how to go about it I would be grateful.

Thanks for taking the time to read and have a good day friend.

 

[bimasta]

Please clarify — The converter didn't fit the existing plug, is that the problem? Or it fits (plugs in with a firm connection) but there's no sound?

If the former, tonearms use a special DIN-5, not the standard 5-pin. If you bought the converter, it's probably the standard which isn't made for tonearms: the pins are larger, and their arrangement differs. They're not compatible. Cables with plugs made for tonearms are readily available at a wide range of prices, just search "tonearm cable".

If the latter, then yes there's probably an issue with the internal wiring.

 

[Wasif]

Please clarify — The converter didn't fit the existing plug, is that the problem? Or it fits (plugs in with a firm connection) but there's no sound?

If the former, tonearms use a special DIN-5, not the standard 5-pin. If you bought the converter, it's probably the standard which isn't made for tonearms: the pins are larger, and their arrangement differs. They're not compatible. Cables with plugs made for tonearms are readily available at a wide range of prices, just search "tonearm cable".

If the latter, then yes there's probably an issue with the internal wiring.

Yes, I decided to do some research while I was waiting. I probably need a pre-amp for anything to happen it seems? But also what you mentioned is probably something I need to account for. I'll post a picture of the cable and converter.

The left one is from the turntable and the right one is the converter that goes out to RCA. It fits perfectly fine didn't have to use force or anything. But that converter might not be correct anyway?

 

[bimasta]

The plugs match if they "fit perfectly fine". If there's no sound, the problem is elsewhere. Maybe the connections inside the Dual's DIN plug got broken — people often pull on them when they shouldn't. Or it might be your RCA to 3.5 adapter. Or the wires inside the arm that lead to that female DIN. Hard to know without troubleshooting.

And yes you need a phono preamp to play LPs. What did her grandfather use? Does it have a cartridge?

 

[Wasif]

The plugs match if they "fit perfectly fine". If there's no sound, the problem is elsewhere. Maybe the connections inside the Dual's DIN plug got broken — people often pull on them when they shouldn't. Or it might be your RCA to 3.5 adapter. Or the wires inside the arm that lead to that female DIN. Hard to know without troubleshooting.

And yes you need a phono preamp to play LPs. What did her grandfather use? Does it have a cartridge?

I am unsure but I will ask her as soon as possible. It does have a cartridge when I play a record on it you can here the music if you put you ear close to it.
Yeah that was my other main thing was trying to open it up so I could check the cables inside. However when I turn the screws up it just makes board sit tighter on the case, if I screw it down it becomes loose/woobly if I try to pull it up it does lift a little but gets stuck on something so unsure of how to proceed with that :/ .

 

[bimasta]

I am unsure but I will ask her as soon as possible. It does have a cartridge when I play a record on it you can here the music if you put you ear close to it.

That's called "needle talk". It shows the stylus is working, but it's not helpful: the signal isn't going anywhere.

Yeah that was my other main thing was trying to open it up so I could check the cables inside. However when I turn the screws up it just makes board sit tighter on the case, if I screw it down it becomes loose/woobly if I try to pull it up it does lift a little but gets stuck on something so unsure of how to proceed with that :/ .

I don't what your references to "board" mean. I'd have to see the TT. Is it on the bottom, a "baseplate"?

 

[Wasif]

That's called "needle talk". It shows the stylus is working, but it's not helpful: the signal isn't going anywhere.
I don't what your references to "board" mean. I'd have to see the TT. Is it on the bottom, a "baseplate"?

I will try and get some better pictures as soon as I'm home again. If I may ask how does one know that signal isn't going anywhere? Figured mainly since I don't have pre-amp I don't have any way of confirming if the signal goes anywhere?
The needle is connected to what I assume is the cartridge with 4 wires.

 

[shelly_d]

That looks like the kind of turntable that may have mounted a ceramic or crystal cartridge, and if that is the case you will not need a phono preamp. Can you take a photo of the end of the tonearm, where the needle sits and post it? Take it from both the side and the bottom. The top won't show anything.

Do you have a multimeter to do continuity checks with? If not cheap ones are available from Harbor Freight, often on sale for less the $10. Not a great instrument but more then adequate to troubleshoot an issue like this.

What I am driving to with that last question is to test the wiring from the back of the cartridge to the pins of the first DIN connector to see it all is well. Once there we could then move on to the next camel and adaptor in the chain. This is not a difficult system to understand. The cartridge makes electricity from the needle movement and everything else is just wire getting it to the amp.

Shelly_D

 

[shelly_d]

If the turntable does have a magnetic cartridge in it, and the speakers with the 3.5 mm port are basically powered computer speakers, or the like, then even if everything else is perfect you are not like to get much or even anything out of the speakers without a preamp. What is happening is this. The better reproduction for record players was with the use of magnetic cartridges. They do much better at reproduction then crystal or ceramic but put out a much weaker signal, by several orders of magnitude. Their output also needs to be equalized to match the recorded equalization used when the record is made. That is the job of the phono preamp. It typically offers about 35 dB of gain which is multiplying the voltage of the signal about 56 times or so. Feeding a signal that week into what is essentially computer speakers will not get anything out.

The first step is to identify the cartridge as either a magnetic or crystal/ceramic and we can go from there.

Shelly_D

 

[Wasif]

That looks like the kind of turntable that may have mounted a ceramic or crystal cartridge, and if that is the case you will not need a phono preamp. Can you take a photo of the end of the tonearm, where the needle sits and post it? Take it from both the side and the bottom. The top won't show anything.

Do you have a multimeter to do continuity checks with? If not cheap ones are available from Harbor Freight, often on sale for less the $10. Not a great instrument but more then adequate to troubleshoot an issue like this.

What I am driving to with that last question is to test the wiring from the back of the cartridge to the pins of the first DIN connector to see it all is well. Once there we could then move on to the next camel and adaptor in the chain. This is not a difficult system to understand. The cartridge makes electricity from the needle movement and everything else is just wire getting it to the amp.

Shelly_D

Tried to get a picture of the bottom (if this is even the part you were referring to.

If it was another part I'll take pictures of that too if it helps. I don't have a multimeter currently but I'll see about getting one tomorrow .

Update I discovered that it says DUAL 1214 searched with that and most of the images looks exactly like the one I have.

 

[shelly_d]

OK. That is a magnetic cartridge. If I am right about those speakers, then you will for sure need that phono preamp. There are any number of low cost ones on Amazon and Ebay.

Before you buy, consider were you are going. If all you want is to listen to those old records through low to mid quality "computer speakers" and not advance up the food chain of audio quality, then the bottom end (low priced) preamps are the way to go. They will probably match the quality of the speaker set up you are using. If on the other hand you think you will move up to much better equipment in the next 2 to 4 years, then get something better. At the bottom end there are some wall wart powered preamps on eBay for less the $15 to $20. If you want to move up later you can move into something like the Art DJ on Amazon that tends to go between $50 and $60. At this level there is really no need to move beyond the quality that the ART DJ will provide.

 

[shelly_d]

Hold off on that multimeter until we know there is something really wrong. The preamp might solve the problem. You for sure need it.

 

[Wasif]

Hold off on that multimeter until we know there is something really wrong. The preamp might solve the problem. You for sure need it.

Good call, I got the Pre-amp today and what do you know I now get sound. Funnily enough I didn't get sound if I did, DIN-5 into RCA through the pre-amp out to 3.5. But if I plugged the DIN-5pin directly into the pre-amp and then out via RCA to 3.5 it worked great. I think my next step will be changing the cartridge and needle but it's nice to know that it's not dead.