Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
Well, like I said, it's got the wrong stylus on it. The one from Ed Saunders should be here any day.I really won't know anything until I get the right stylus on it.
Help! I've been bitten by the idler drive bug!!!
- Thread starter Brett a
- Start date
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
Yeh, it's true. The Well Tempered / ATOC9 MLII is a tough act to follow. And especially tough for a thirty five dollar, 40 year old turntable. It's important to keep that in mind.
The other thing about the Dual that I think would deserve a whole other thread is the fact that the tonearm bearings have play in them; if I gently shake the arm back and forth at the pivots, there's definitely slop. I think that alone would go a long way to collapsing a sound stage.
What I'd really love is the transparency and quietness of the Well Tempered with the slam of the idler drive.
I suppose I could sell the WTRP and buy a restored Garrard 301 or Thorens 124. But that seems a bit drastic this early in the game.
:scratch2:
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
Yeh, but why stop there?
Hey, if you're in Western Mass, you should come over and check it out. I'm @ RT 202 and RT 2. Seriously, PM if you're interested. I love to have you.
That was what I was after when I bought the VPI. I'd had a stock Lenco (still have), and loved the drive that you were talking about. Then I got an Empire, and it had that same drive with a more refined sound. So I realized that maybe a big motor and giant platter could do the leading-edge trick that idlers do, and bought the VPI on that notion. And it turned out to be almost as good as an idler with their locomotive-of-sound thing, but with all the refinement of a belt drive (and it has a really quiet background). I will say, however, that the Well Tempered has a better dimensionality (?) to the soundstage than my VPI, but the VPI has better attack and bass.
Whatever you do, I wouldn't sell the Well Tempered chasing it.
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
That's probably Wise. Good advice.
CharlieWhite
Active Member
I have been saying the same thing. I'm sure you have also noticed the price hike over the past couple of years. One that is properly set-up and forums like this only contribute to that :thmbsp:
CharlieWhite
Active Member
epay is currently flooded with Gates TT's right now. There is a 'Gates CB 1200' listed (no affiliation) which is what I assume is an earlier model of my 'Harris CB 1201' http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=368187 Looks like it would be a fun restore project. Decent price and has been up for awhile.
Chuckles
Chuckles
Last edited:
bobbyonions
AK Member
I'm sure the WTRP is an amazing turntable. All I'm saying is a 1215 with a questionable stylus is a FAR cry from a properly functioning and set up 1229, 1219, or 1019.
I've owned a 1215 and was very un-impressed. I think if someone was wanting to explore idler drives without spending stacks, the top dual models are a logical units to consider.
bobbyonions
AK Member
Hey Thanks! I'll PM you. Maybe I can bring the 1229 and some vinyl and we can A/B the tables. I'm a scavenger in this hobby, so it would be a real treat to hear your system.
marc mc
Super Member
The door cracked open for you Brett. I garentee you will be an idler drive guy from here on in. Get a Lenco GL75 and have it redone or redo it yourself. When finished your Well Tempered will be finished as well.Your Dual and most other idlers are just indications of how good the better Idlers are. It took a bunch of work and re-thinking to complete my total Lenco redo with the stand and table I use with it. It was a ton of work and hours on Lenco Heaven but wow does it sound good.
A couple people mentioned noise from the the drive system. That is a non starter for these machines when set right. Mine is dead silent and the superiority of the idler drive system in the Lenco took seconds to realize. I now understand to a degree why belt drives became popular and led us the way they did. I also now understand what they rob us of in the music. The micro speed variations are massively apparent after you here a good idler. The belt was introduced to eliminate motor noise from reaching the cart but it ultimately becomes a the weak link because it's always in flux up or down. I was a die hard belt drive guy for 30 years and it disappered with one song on my Lenco. You hear the advantage of the drive system on every note, voice, cymbals etc. You can instantly hear what the belt drives smear. It's obvious.
Jean Nantais started a buzz a few years back with the monstrous thread on audiogon and people began to notice the Lenco's. A bigger stir up here in Canada happened when well known guru Arthur Salvatore (who now lives in Florida but lived in TO for years and is well known from the store he used to have here) said that Jean's Reference Lenco dethroned his much loved Air Forsell Reference. Arthur is an analog fanatic and a look through refereence components list should give you an indication of the level he used to sell and run at his store. Arthur is the guy that got me into audio and helped form the majority of my audio ideas I was shocked when he declared the Reference GL to be the finest table he has ever heard. To give context the first table I heard at his store was the Well Tempered. I also heard most of the monster tables of the day there.
I have been in total shock since finishing mine. It was a fair chunk of work and it would take me little time to do another if I ever wanted to. But I could not imagine ever using a belt drive again. Arthur found like others that it is the superiority of the Lenco drive system that is the key. The torque Is the key the speed perfect drive with that torque results in drive system that even his Forsell with air bearings and flywheel couldn't touch.
Here's the link to what Arthur dissevered and prompted lots of us to take a closer look at the Lenco.
www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Lenco.html
Marc mc
A couple people mentioned noise from the the drive system. That is a non starter for these machines when set right. Mine is dead silent and the superiority of the idler drive system in the Lenco took seconds to realize. I now understand to a degree why belt drives became popular and led us the way they did. I also now understand what they rob us of in the music. The micro speed variations are massively apparent after you here a good idler. The belt was introduced to eliminate motor noise from reaching the cart but it ultimately becomes a the weak link because it's always in flux up or down. I was a die hard belt drive guy for 30 years and it disappered with one song on my Lenco. You hear the advantage of the drive system on every note, voice, cymbals etc. You can instantly hear what the belt drives smear. It's obvious.
Jean Nantais started a buzz a few years back with the monstrous thread on audiogon and people began to notice the Lenco's. A bigger stir up here in Canada happened when well known guru Arthur Salvatore (who now lives in Florida but lived in TO for years and is well known from the store he used to have here) said that Jean's Reference Lenco dethroned his much loved Air Forsell Reference. Arthur is an analog fanatic and a look through refereence components list should give you an indication of the level he used to sell and run at his store. Arthur is the guy that got me into audio and helped form the majority of my audio ideas I was shocked when he declared the Reference GL to be the finest table he has ever heard. To give context the first table I heard at his store was the Well Tempered. I also heard most of the monster tables of the day there.
I have been in total shock since finishing mine. It was a fair chunk of work and it would take me little time to do another if I ever wanted to. But I could not imagine ever using a belt drive again. Arthur found like others that it is the superiority of the Lenco drive system that is the key. The torque Is the key the speed perfect drive with that torque results in drive system that even his Forsell with air bearings and flywheel couldn't touch.
Here's the link to what Arthur dissevered and prompted lots of us to take a closer look at the Lenco.
www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Lenco.html
Marc mc
Last edited:
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
There's a lot to go on in this thread, so thank again to everyone so far. And I think you may be right, mark.
Looks like I may have a ROK Rondine JR L-34 on the way from another member who PM'd me. It'll be a project which I'm happy to take on.
And of course, I'll keep you all posted. I'm looking forward to joining the ROK turntables ROCK thread!!
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Once you hear idlers done right, no turning back. Even big broadcast DD decks for me deliver lots of PRAT plinthed right. One noted audiophile sold his Walker Proscenium for a hot rodded Technics SP-10 Mk II. Eventually, a broadcast idler or a Lenco rebuilt and replinthed will do vinyl playback duty at casa de Kent!
beatcomber
AK Member
Holy crap! That's AMAZING!!!