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Help me with speaker selection

B

Brad Holman

Member
I am new to the forum (first post), so please don't kick the noob...

I am looking at entering the world of DIY tube equipment (currently have low end Dynaudio speakers, Acurus amp), and am looking at acquiring some high efficiency speakers to match to low watt SET tube amps. I have my sights set on two options - Heathkit AS-101 or ADS L1530, both being sold locally, both for around $1,000. Whatever I get, I plan on performing all the DIY tasks such as updating crossovers and internal wiring, adding dampening to the Heathkit horn, etc. I am leaning toward the AS because it is less obtrusive to look at, but I think $1,000 is more than I should have to pay for it. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
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There are several options out there depending also on the speaker efficiency and tube amp output. Have you listened to either of those initial speaker choices? Also, it might help if you identified what type SET you had in mind so that members with same/similar equipment could advise their experiences.
 
As far as what amps I am going to use, I will start building BlueGlow's Kegger-based KT88 SET project sometime this summer or fall. I also have 2-3 old console amps that I have started working on, one is a push-pull out of a Curtis Mathes and the other is an RCA RS-177H chassis.
Regarding the speakers, the heath is in a storage locker in oklahoma, and I will probably only get to do a visual inspection and check the drivers with an ohmmeter. I am unaware of the status of the ADS speakers regarding auditions. I have a friend that used to own a pair of L1090's many years ago, and I always loved the way they sounded. My biggest concern is the low power of the amp - I know the heath was designed for it, but I am less certain about the ADS.
I listen to 90% classical, and have recently discovered early 60's jazz such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane, etc.
Hope this helps, thanks!
 
According to that manual the ADS are 96 dB efficient with a recommended amplifier power of 10W min to 300W max. From what I've seen the AS 101 are similarly ~97dB efficient. Both are well respected speakers. Depending on how you listen and the size/shape of your listening space, a low power amp might be fine for light Jazz and various classical. However, some classical pieces need oomph if you like to get a sense of the whole orchestra presentation, so there'll likely be some test & try to this to understand the satisfaction factor for you. In one of my systems I run approx 96dB speakers with amps ~20W tube or SS and find that plenty good for that space and listening. Your needs might be different. Alternatively, there are higher efficiency speakers that will drive you out of the house with a few watts of power.

As this thread in Dollars and Sense is discussing your options relative to your budget price factor, perhaps either look through similar threads in Speakers forum discussion ADS and Heathkit AS 101 (& maybe similarly Altec Valencia or some Klipsch offerings) for user opinions or start a thread there discussing just the technical evaluations & experiences of others, i.e. not specifically introducing the cost factor.
 
I used to have the 1530 and own an Altec Flamenco (very similar to AS 101).
The two are very different speakers. Fo the same money the ADS is far better speaker - one of the very few (of the 50 pairs) I sold I miss still.
I think though for your amp the AS 101 would be a better fit (yo can drive them with 3-5 wpm amps); i think the ADSwould really benefit from a more powerful amp to get them really sing
 
I would go with the AS101 , being an Altec speaker.
Replace the crossover cap with a modern film cap and your done. In my experience , damping the horn is not necessary. True they ring when out of the cabinet. But once mounted they don’t. Elevate them so the horn is at listening height.
They will have the best resale value as well.
 
I appreciate everyone's input - I decided to go with the AS-101. I already made an offer to the seller on the condition that I can visually inspect the drivers and that he hook them up so I can briefly audition, and he has accepted it. If the weather holds up I will pick them up this weekend (but I may get rained out).
 
Good Call. Those crossovers are much easier to recap than the Altecs. They do not appear to be Potted. Leave the inductors and resistor , as they are fine. Check the grounds as they may be depending on a riveted connection to ground. Might want to rotate the woofer 180.

Miles Davis will be super sweet on them. The most convincing horn and guitar sounds I have heard are with the Altec Horn.
 
billyz said:
Good Call. Those crossovers are much easier to recap than the Altecs. They do not appear to be Potted. Leave the inductors and resistor , as they are fine. Check the grounds as they may be depending on a riveted connection to ground. Might want to rotate the woofer 180.

Miles Davis will be super sweet on them. The most convincing horn and guitar sounds I have heard are with the Altec Horn.
Click to expand...
Those AS 101s are really good speakers, same as Altec 846B I believe. And yes, easy crossovers to access and recap. The controls may need attention, mine are trashed and will need replacement.

I also agree with billyz, I've ever heard any ringing in the horns, even at higher volume.
 
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alteclipsch said:
Those AS 101s are really good speakers, same as Altec 846B I believe. And yes, easy crossovers to access and recap. The controls may need attention, mine are trashed and will need replacement.
Click to expand...

Most controls can be fixed by liberal use of Caig Deoxit and or fader lube. Rotate vigorously after spraying, rinse . repeat as needed. I have taken apart most control pots . it can be done if careful with the tabs. big wirewounds can be restored with 600 grit paper soaked in deoxit. retension the wiper if needed ( usually not) , just pull the soaked paper under the wiper.
90% of the time just spray and rotate is all that is needed.
 
I pick mine up tomorrow ( 3 hour drive each way!). What are the cap values that need to be replaced, I think I understand 8uf and 21uf, but what type and voltage?
 
Voltage should be at leased what's printed on the old caps, but higher voltage is ok. If replacing with film caps they tend to be around 200+ volts.
And that's fine. I just replaced some 50v electrolytic caps in a crossover with 250v poly film caps. You should be able to find the cap values printed on the old caps. I never go by cap values printed in the manuals. Revisions can and do happen during production and I like to be sure before ordering new caps. For instance, I had a pair of Warfadale W-90's. I've seen at leased three if not more versions of that speaker. And some of the crossovers are a bit different.
 
I have always replaced crossover caps with film type. Usually use Solen fast cap, cheap and good.
sometimes it is necessary to parallel caps to get the proper (original) value. In that case i try to use caps of similar value or close. I.E. if you need 21uf , try 10uf and 11uf for example.
 
Well poop! 7 hours driving from Dallas to Oklahoma City and back, and no speakers! The guy I was dealing with was OK, but there were a litany of issues with the speakers:
  • The cabinets were in horrible shape. Not bad, horrible. The joints where the corners of the wood trim all had gaps, and one was at least 1/4 wide. That, coupled with areas on the bottom that looked like they were delaminating from the underlying board looked like they had spent some time in water. The entire outside wood was seriously faded and in many places cracked. Almost all the corners had really bad gouges taken out of them, and on one speaker the entire back top edge looked like someone had taken a wood rasp to it and ground it down. No surface of the cabinets I could see (leading to the next issue) looked salvageable.
  • Next, the two speakers were stacked on top of each other, so I could not see just how bad the top of the bottom speaker was, and the two speaker stack was jammed into a corner with other equipment so I could not easily get to the back. When talking to the seller before my trip, I stated that I wanted to audition the speakers with some CDs, which I brought along. When I got there he had no cd player, just some $10 junk receiver connected to the speakers with wire so thin it looked more like thread than speaker wire. And of course the speakers were stacked on top of each other, not set up for any critical listening.
  • When he did turn on the receiver, he asked what kind of music I liked, I said Classical and jazz. Apparently there are no such radio stations in Oklahoma City, all he could do is tune to a station playing pop music.
  • When I put my ear close to the speakers, one horn sounded significantly brighter than the other, even after adjusting the lpad on the back as far either way as they could go.

After 10 minutes of fiddling I told him the cabinets were unsalvageable (he said he could if he felt like it), and that I could not justify spending $800 on something as torn up as they were, and since I was unable to audition them properly. He stated that he could easily get $1,000 by just gutting the components and selling them on ebay (so why sell to me at $800 anyway), and that AS-101s were selling on eBay for $1,500. I wasn't going to argue, said thanks and left.

Long story short, I was ready to purchase the speakers as long as I could audition them fairly, and salvage the cabinets. In this case the cabinets were absolute trash, and I had no chance of auditioning them fairly before the sale, so I had to turn around and drive home. It's partly my fault, I should have asked for more pictures of the condition (the pics on craigslist do not do them justice), but the seller should have been more forthcoming about the terrible condition of the cabinets, and put in at least some effort to have them ready to audition when I arrived.

POOP!
 
I'm sorry to hear that it did not work out for you, especially considering the 7 hour round trip. Do you have any other local options besides the ADS?
 
No, I'll just have to keep waiting, watch goodwill stores now that they are open, maybe garage / estate sales will start up again soon. I'm in no hurry. Thanks for everyone's comments!
 
That sucks man, I'm sorry to hear it went that way. You certainly did the right thing by walking away. Everything happens for a reason thought. I hate sketchy jackasses that do that type of crap. It's one thing if the seller doesn't know, but most of the time they do and just want to rip someone off. Good luck in your search!!!
 
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