(here we go)....RSII refurb
- Thread starter Jonesy09
- Start date
Speakerbox
Super Member
my GOD i love big Infinity speakers:drool:
Jonesy09
Super Member
so they're up and running.....
:yes::yes:
However, they seem to be a dual-edged sword as I now realize that my sources are shite...:tears:
While I realize these have some progress to be made yet (rear EMITS, thorough cleaning of pots, possible recap) they are still the most accurate loudspeakers I've ever had in my house.
Example: The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Live at Winterland CD (RYKODISC). There was a buzz present on certain guitar parts during Red House. I initially thought a tweeter was bad (ruled out after multiple replays and different program material), then I thought the RSII's were hitting a resonant somewhere in the room (cancel that after crawling all over the damn place for an hour). I was hearing the resonant on the snare in the recording!!! Wow.
Not to open a can worms or anything but after listening to a few CDs and a little vinyl I am now only realizing the 'fatigue' phenomenon to it's fullest. I haven't fully experienced this on my main rig.
Regardless, these babies are amazing and I owe much gratitude to Ed, Evan and many others here that I've absorbed knowledge from.
:yes::yes:However, they seem to be a dual-edged sword as I now realize that my sources are shite...:tears:
While I realize these have some progress to be made yet (rear EMITS, thorough cleaning of pots, possible recap) they are still the most accurate loudspeakers I've ever had in my house.
Example: The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Live at Winterland CD (RYKODISC). There was a buzz present on certain guitar parts during Red House. I initially thought a tweeter was bad (ruled out after multiple replays and different program material), then I thought the RSII's were hitting a resonant somewhere in the room (cancel that after crawling all over the damn place for an hour). I was hearing the resonant on the snare in the recording!!! Wow.
Not to open a can worms or anything but after listening to a few CDs and a little vinyl I am now only realizing the 'fatigue' phenomenon to it's fullest. I haven't fully experienced this on my main rig.
Regardless, these babies are amazing and I owe much gratitude to Ed, Evan and many others here that I've absorbed knowledge from.
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ekmanning5
Time has told me...
I can't believe those are the same speakers I was tripping over in my garage. You've done a wonderful job of restoration. I'd love to come up and hear them sometime.
Arkay
Lunatic Member
Congratulations, and welcome to the club of RS-II owners/lovers! Beautiful job of renovation on those. :thmbsp:
Mine were stained black when I got them (appeared as a factory stain -?!?), and the black finish was way too deep and permanent to be removable. While I have re-stained and polished up the black to look good again, I wish I had the original oak finish, when I see how good ones like yours look!
A couple comments:
1. Your story of the snare resonance is amusing and familiar: I had many such "discovery" experiences when I started listening to recordings that I previously thought I knew. Air moving over teeth, the material a drumstick or guitar pick is made of, the scrape of a performer's shoe on a stage ... lots of intimate details are revealed with these speakers that are absent with most speakers.
With this said, you've also discovered the "weak point" of these already: they are so accurate and revealing that any weakness in your gear or source recordings is likely to become annoyingly evident. I like mine above all my other speakers, but I would never live with JUST these, because there are many recordings I want to enjoy, which I can't when I hear everything on them! So I keep more "forgiving" speakers, too, to enjoy that music on, and only hear the best-quality ones when I haul out the RS IIs.
If you are experiencing fatigue, it is because of your gear, not the speakers. When set up with the right gear and good sources, these speakers are sheer delight, not fatiguing, and way ahead of most of the oft-praised speakers you read about around here. But at least half of your CDs and a few of the worst vinyl recordings will be virtually unlistenable, because of all the weaknesses and warts you'll hear.
2. Make sure whatever amp you upgrade to, make sure it is a high-current-capable amp that can handle low-impedance loads that dip into the 1-2 ohm region. Running these speakers with anything less is inviting both amp damage and fried EMIT tweeters, or both and worse.
3. GET THOSE REAR-FIRING EMITS ON THERE! You think these speakers sound great now?
D) Once you add that rear-firing EMIT, you'll add so much air and space and depth to the sound stage, it will surprise you. :yes: :thmbsp: Right now, you are only hearing PART of the sound these speakers were meant to produce!
4. It is a somewhat confusing pain to re-work the crossovers on these in order to bi-amp them, because of he complexity of the crossover system used. However, if you separate the mids+tweets on the open baffle from the woofers below, and bi-amp them, you can improve the sound AND achieve an increased level of safety regarding amplification. I'd recommend relatively strong tube amps on top, and solid (high-current) SS amps on the bottom.
All the vintage Infinity amps in the IRS and RS series were originally/primarily voiced with tube amps. I've read that Arnie Nudell liked to use Audio Research SP11 preamps, but of course there are other choices that sound good, too. Such a tube pre-amp plus a powerful high-current-capable solid state power amp makes an excellent combination, too, without having to mess around with the crossovers. Probably the best way to go, at least for now.
Again, congratulations on an excellent job of sprucing up an excellent pair of speakers! :thmbsp:
...and add those rear-facing EMITs!
Mine were stained black when I got them (appeared as a factory stain -?!?), and the black finish was way too deep and permanent to be removable. While I have re-stained and polished up the black to look good again, I wish I had the original oak finish, when I see how good ones like yours look!
A couple comments:
1. Your story of the snare resonance is amusing and familiar: I had many such "discovery" experiences when I started listening to recordings that I previously thought I knew. Air moving over teeth, the material a drumstick or guitar pick is made of, the scrape of a performer's shoe on a stage ... lots of intimate details are revealed with these speakers that are absent with most speakers.
With this said, you've also discovered the "weak point" of these already: they are so accurate and revealing that any weakness in your gear or source recordings is likely to become annoyingly evident. I like mine above all my other speakers, but I would never live with JUST these, because there are many recordings I want to enjoy, which I can't when I hear everything on them! So I keep more "forgiving" speakers, too, to enjoy that music on, and only hear the best-quality ones when I haul out the RS IIs.
If you are experiencing fatigue, it is because of your gear, not the speakers. When set up with the right gear and good sources, these speakers are sheer delight, not fatiguing, and way ahead of most of the oft-praised speakers you read about around here. But at least half of your CDs and a few of the worst vinyl recordings will be virtually unlistenable, because of all the weaknesses and warts you'll hear.
2. Make sure whatever amp you upgrade to, make sure it is a high-current-capable amp that can handle low-impedance loads that dip into the 1-2 ohm region. Running these speakers with anything less is inviting both amp damage and fried EMIT tweeters, or both and worse.
3. GET THOSE REAR-FIRING EMITS ON THERE! You think these speakers sound great now?
D) Once you add that rear-firing EMIT, you'll add so much air and space and depth to the sound stage, it will surprise you. :yes: :thmbsp: Right now, you are only hearing PART of the sound these speakers were meant to produce!4. It is a somewhat confusing pain to re-work the crossovers on these in order to bi-amp them, because of he complexity of the crossover system used. However, if you separate the mids+tweets on the open baffle from the woofers below, and bi-amp them, you can improve the sound AND achieve an increased level of safety regarding amplification. I'd recommend relatively strong tube amps on top, and solid (high-current) SS amps on the bottom.
All the vintage Infinity amps in the IRS and RS series were originally/primarily voiced with tube amps. I've read that Arnie Nudell liked to use Audio Research SP11 preamps, but of course there are other choices that sound good, too. Such a tube pre-amp plus a powerful high-current-capable solid state power amp makes an excellent combination, too, without having to mess around with the crossovers. Probably the best way to go, at least for now.
Again, congratulations on an excellent job of sprucing up an excellent pair of speakers! :thmbsp:
...and add those rear-facing EMITs!
Jonesy09
Super Member
You have an open invitation Ed.
Arkay - great information. Thanks. I'm hunting for that EMIT right now!
Jonesy09
Super Member
Hey, try this on for crazy...
Theoretically
ara: could a guy put a pair of EMITs from the Qb model in place of the rear EMITs for some RSII's? In comparing the spec sheets from the Infinity classics site it seems that the diaphragm part #'s are the same between the two models.....
http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/technik/manuals/Qb_technical_sheet.pdf
http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/technik/manuals/RS_II_technical_sheet.pdf
....but the part #'s are different. Does that mean that the innards (note the technical term here) are the same but the faceplate and implementation are different? Could the same, slightly intellectually impeded, guy take said Qb tweet, pull the plate, drill new holes thereby fitting the Qb tweet onto the rear RSII EMIT position and expect identical results as putting a RSII EMIT in place?
Theoretically
ara: could a guy put a pair of EMITs from the Qb model in place of the rear EMITs for some RSII's? In comparing the spec sheets from the Infinity classics site it seems that the diaphragm part #'s are the same between the two models.....http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/technik/manuals/Qb_technical_sheet.pdf
http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/technik/manuals/RS_II_technical_sheet.pdf
....but the part #'s are different. Does that mean that the innards (note the technical term here) are the same but the faceplate and implementation are different? Could the same, slightly intellectually impeded, guy take said Qb tweet, pull the plate, drill new holes thereby fitting the Qb tweet onto the rear RSII EMIT position and expect identical results as putting a RSII EMIT in place?
That is a good question and someone who is up on the EMIM/EMITs will have to give an answer. I'm interested in hearing what the differences are and why Infinity had different part numbers.
The spec sheets linked look like the tweeters have identical fascia but that could just be laziness on the part of the tech who drew up the spec sheet. I am guessing there was a difference in the fascia.
The spec sheets linked look like the tweeters have identical fascia but that could just be laziness on the part of the tech who drew up the spec sheet. I am guessing there was a difference in the fascia.
Tedrick
Infinity-phile
No, they are not the same. The magnet structures are different, which means their output may well be different. I have both Qe's and RS-IIb's; the magnets on the RS-IIb EMITs are much thinner than the Qe's.
In addition to different outputs, the thicker Qe/Qb EMIT may not recess all the way in the RS-II cabinet.
However, most EMITs use the exact same diaphragm, and since the voice coil traces on the diaphragm are usually the part that fails, you can use the diaphragm from different EMITs to make a repair. If you go this route, make and use a jig to disassemble the EMIT to prevent damage to your fingers, the diaphragms, or the magnets. I have done this type of repair, and it works perfectly. See the sticky's at the top of this forum for guidance on EMIT/EMIM repair.
In addition to different outputs, the thicker Qe/Qb EMIT may not recess all the way in the RS-II cabinet.
However, most EMITs use the exact same diaphragm, and since the voice coil traces on the diaphragm are usually the part that fails, you can use the diaphragm from different EMITs to make a repair. If you go this route, make and use a jig to disassemble the EMIT to prevent damage to your fingers, the diaphragms, or the magnets. I have done this type of repair, and it works perfectly. See the sticky's at the top of this forum for guidance on EMIT/EMIM repair.
240sx4u
Lunatic Member
Wow dude, those clean up better than mine did! I need to bust out the feed n' wax again. I am NOT an oak fan but these speakers look sharp.
Looking great, I am really happy you got them up and going. And to think when we met you told me you didn't have room for something like that LOL. Arkay is right, the rear fire emit will take you to the next level.
Ill try to get my grilles to your house this week. If you do need to take apart the emits, let me know. I have done it without too much trouble. Would be happy to guide you through it.
Evan
BTW; Your dead on as far as gear selection. Are you running them with that big carver that you borrowed still? Your preamp may be your soft spot now.
Looking great, I am really happy you got them up and going. And to think when we met you told me you didn't have room for something like that LOL. Arkay is right, the rear fire emit will take you to the next level.
Ill try to get my grilles to your house this week. If you do need to take apart the emits, let me know. I have done it without too much trouble. Would be happy to guide you through it.
Evan
BTW; Your dead on as far as gear selection. Are you running them with that big carver that you borrowed still? Your preamp may be your soft spot now.
Jonesy09
Super Member
Thanks for the explanation. I was trying to get by on the cheap but that's not always possible I suppose.
Evan - that would be great! I also need to rig up another grill support (the plastic peg that holds the grill away from the top of the cabinet) as there was only one with these. I'm thinking of just cutting the appropriate diameter wood dowel and staining it to match the cabs.
As far as the gear goes I'm thinking the bottleneck is now the cheap-ass DVD player I'm using to spin CDs. I was thinking of adding a DAC instead of getting a new player. I dunno.
BTW, I still don't have the proper space for these, but I really don't care.
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240sx4u
Lunatic Member
They are very forgiving of room setup really... as long as you have SOME symmetry it seems they work well.
Good plan on the D/A converter.
Evan
looks like i'm helping Jonesy rebuild his crossovers. should be a sweet little project. first, i've got a question for RSII owners. have you ever noticed that the blue 600uF shunt cap on the bottom woofer is not in the schematic? is that an oversight or a revision, do ya think?