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High Efficiency Suggestions Needed

StevenZ

StevenZ

Texas or nothin'
Hey guys, like the title states, I need some suggestions for an upcoming project. I'd like to build a high efficiency speaker 96db+ but have a $1k budget for parts and need to be able to stay within a 16" x 16" floor space. Height doesn't matter as long as it's less than 7' tall. Please do not recommend the Econowave. I have looked at it and have ruled against it. Trying to go with something new and fresh. Basically what I'm needing is a speaker with a dynamic punch to it. Doesn't need to hit subwoofer levels (50hz and below) but it definitely does need to be able to at least extend down low enough to be able to blend with a subwoofer or two. What ya guys got? I'm open to anything as long as it's within my parameters.


-Steven
 
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Wish I could help! Guess we'll see what you come up with. Tube or ss amp?



Mark
 
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Tube. I want to use my SET amp on this project. I'm limited to about 2.5wpc in SET mode and close to 5wpc in UL.
 
i am building some 16 x 16 speakers, 40" height with Altec Horns mounted on top of the cabinet. The woofers are in the 16 x 16 cabinet mounted high. They are vintage Altec as well.

The woofers are 95 db 12" woofers from the model 15 speaker. I would find more sensitive woofers for your 2.5 watts if you want to shake the windows, I found that 6 watts wasn't enough, I needed 20 watts before my kids started complaining that the light fixtures downstairs were rattling.

The horns are 103 db so I had to instal an L pad to tone them down. I have a University N2B crossover network with the crossover set at 1200 hz.

I added a sub woofer but it wasn't 100% necessary. Pics when I get closer to completion but the idea is quite simple. These sound significantly better than my Altec econowave using the same woofer but in a smaller, lower Santana 2 cabinet.
 
Well mainly just because it seems like a hodge podge. I am looking for a more specific design.
 
I would suggest a different approach :scratch2:

Take an existing speaker and modify it. The results can be quite stunning and frankly jaw dropping.

There are a number of paths you could take. When I built my SET amplifiers 811-10's I to needed an efficient speaker for my 10 watt monoblocks. I was able procure some Klipsch Forte's (16.5in x 12in) I liked what I heard but wanted more from them. After hearing what a friends DIY ALK Universal networks did for his LaScala's I had to try modifying the Forte using high subjective value parts. I spent some $2000 and got way more then I ever hoped for. A few others on this forum have followed my path as well with a variety of Klipsch speakers I'm not saying you have to spend as much as I have but the what I did can be applied to other speakers especially if its something that you like only want more yet from.

The key is in the speakers networks. Cheesy networks often result in cheesy sound.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159340&page=12

Case in point is my friend DaveC whose rf25's were modified. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=288022 He uses a 300B SET amplifier. Sound revivals speakers costing 4-5 times as much as what he has in them. New $600 you can find them used as they are no longer made. He has $600 in parts. One could spend less perhaps Sonicaps instead of Mundorf but the North Creek inductors are key!

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SET12

BTW I might add since my Forte's go down to the low 30's and I have the performance of one of the worlds largest air core Inductors I require no sub.
 
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good advice from SET12

StevenZ said:
Great suggestions! Thanks guys keep'em comin!
Click to expand...

If you want to max out your available space look to a hot rod job on a set of Klipsch KLF20 or KLF30. My personal preference is the KLF20 they both use the same horns. First off you will have to replace the tweeter diaphragm from poly to Titanium and if you want to do this well change the phenolic mids to Titanium diaphragms also. KLF20 with room gain will give you 98db, KLF30 with room gain 101db both go low both have excellent horns and simple crossovers to upgrade. I cannot imagine that you could come close to building and equal to the stock unit on your own so this is a fine way to go for very little. If you want a better sounding loudspeaker then the CF3 and or CF4 would be my suggestion but they will not be as efficient as the numbers would suggest and yo will need some power and biamping would be the best way to go with them. The CF3&4 hare three driver two ways and have the largest newest horns you are going to find in a vintage speaker on the used market. I see them as the best overall compromise of any of the Klipsch speakers to date. They are the true gems of the Klipsch line up. If you want other options look to Red Spade Audio and check out the Synergy Kit which is a Tom Danley design. Bill Waslo also has some fine work on line with respect to synergy but not as efficient as you might like. Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=19.0
 
I'd go with a "Super 12" or 10" variant to scale, 'single driver' design. Or another variant has the addition of a tweeter that after experimentation is best mounted above the cabinets. With your amp and single driver designs you'll get the best bang at selecting driver at about 80 watts max @ 97db. Also note that this design is 'position' acoustic sensitive.

Some super 12 insight with tweeter,
http://fullrangedriver.com/singledriver/super12.html#supertweeter (old page with bad links but good info.)
http://www.diyparadise.com/hammer.html (note the internal damping tweaks)

Some more insight including cabinet plans: (no affiliation)
http://commonsenseaudio.com/
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/nirvana.html

Note with this design using new drivers there is a break in period that the bass (most noticeable) will become more enhanced but not louder. Not likely an issue with a modestly used pair.
 
I'm a recent full range "convert" and am very happy with my Audio Nirvana Super 12's. The Audio Nirvana line of speakers is something you might want to look at.

Mike
 
StevenZ said:
Well mainly just because it seems like a hodge podge. I am looking for a more specific design.
Click to expand...

there's nothing hodge podge about it. try it with some really efficient 12 inch woofer such as JBL or Altec and you will love it. i have built some highly regarded diy speakers from scratch, and the econowave, in many cases, sounded superior to similar spec'ed speakers. you get to use existing box that's proven over time - that's more than half the battle done when making diy speakers. you'll save a lot of time and money - if that's important to you at all.
 
DCM KX10 series 2. I have a pair of these, they can make serious noise with only a few watts. The KX12s are even more efficient. I have no experience of the series 1s, but they should probably be good as well.

The "beauty" of these is they were sold at Circuit City only about 10 years ago, so you're more likely to find a set on Craigslist.

Lee.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm weighing my options and will be considering the econowaves as a viable project.

As for the Audio Nirvanas, been there done that. I've used the Super 3, Super 8, Super 10, and Super 12" from Common Sense Audio and have been less than thrilled with the results. I've also used his "enclosure" plans, including the monitors, the 2.8, and the 5.6 so I believe I've given them more than a fair shake. Each time being let down by the results. Yes, I did try different amplification on them.

For now, the only fullrange driver I like and currently use are my Mark Audio Alpair. I've been using Mark's drivers for a couple years now and within their limitations I don't think there is a better fullrange driver on the market that can touch them within their price point. Sure there are betters out there, but IMO you'd have to spend much more to get minimal increases in performance. The downfall is that they're a small driver. They lack the ultimate dynamics that I'm after.

As for Hammer Dynamics, those aren't an option. Ever since the founder's death, his wife has been running off of old stock. As of the last time I checked in with her, she could barely scrape together enough parts for 1 single kit. That was last year. Doubtful she has anything left.

All that said, I think I have my mind made up. I won't go the econowave route since it still seems like a hodge podge to me. Rather, I will go with a design by PiSpeakers.com which is the 4 Pi. This speaker stretches the size limitations a bit, but should be workable at 14" deep, 18" wide. Here is the link to these speakers. http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/3/products_id/108

I have decided to go with the upgraded compression driver, upgraded woofer, and upgraded crossover parts (Jantzen cap). Though this driver only extends down to 50-60hz I think my subwoofer can pick up down there and blend just fine. From the information I gathered the owner of PiSpeakers.com (Wayne Parham) worked with Zilch back in the day to perfect uniform directivity so I'm confident that these speakers will sound much like a great econowave. Just, I will get to build these myself and choose the wood veneer and finishing as well. Placing my order tomorrow and will start a build thread as soon as the parts arrive.

Stay tuned, folks and thanks for the suggestions!


-Steven
 
The Fusion-12 Tempest

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion12-kit.html

or the Alpha-12 Zephyr

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/alpha-series-kits/alpha12-kit.html

from DIY Sound Group. Both are designed by Jeff Bagby, who has designed many very well regarded conventional speakers (and who is the writer of the PCD software, among others). He designed these for the DIY Sound Group using their SEOS waveguides. He speaks about them some on the Parts Express Tech group forum.

Steve.
 
Seems like the Jbl 2226 should go lower than 50-60hz. The T&S is showing a FS of 40hz.
Where is the specs on the enclosure? I couldnt find them on the site.

Mark
 
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