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High Frequency "Glare" or "Grainy" Texture - Help me Isolate it

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Decibel_116

AK Subscriber
I just took delivery of a new Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 amplifier. Emotiva had a sale on these big amplifiers and I thought I would go ahead and get the matching amp to the XSP-1 Gen2 preamp. I have been using a Crown XLS-2000 to drive my Thiel CS3.5 speakers with pretty good results. I though the XPA-2 would be a step up from the Crown amplfier. However, almost immediately after connecting it and turning it on, I noticed a sort of "glare" or "grainy" texture to the sound irregardless of the source. Any ideas what may be causing this or might this be the dreaded "big amp sheen" I have heard so much about. I have never had so many issues trying to solve sound issues until I acquired the Thiel speakers. They are very revealing speakers and sound great when everything is sorted out. However, these speakers have sent me down another rabbit hole. I suppose what I need is a little confirmation that this may just be a characteristic of the amplifier itself. If so, back it will go. Anyone care to make any suggestions? I have everything connected via high-quality RCA cables. I have not tried using the balanced connections. One other thing. This amplifier produced an absolutely incredible presentation of floor toms and drums while playing a direct to disc recording. So it has the capability to throw a nice soundstage. But, I can't live with the grainy textures on the upper midrange and lower treble. Maybe I have missed something in the setup that needs to be sorted out. Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated!
 
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Can you try running the new preamp through your old amp, and the old preamp through the new amp, to sort out the source?
 
Decibel_116 said:
I just took delivery of a new Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 amplifier. Emotiva had a sale on these big amplifiers and I thought I would go ahead and get the matching amp to the XSP-1 Gen2 preamp. I have been using a Crown XLS-2000 to drive my Thiel CS3.5 speakers with pretty good results. I though the XPA-2 would be a step up from the Crown amplfier. However, almost immediately after connecting it and turning it on, I noticed a sort of "glare" or "grainy" texture to the sound irregardless of the source. Any ideas what may be causing this or might this be the dreaded "big amp sheen" I have heard so much about. I have never had so many issues trying to solve sound issues until I acquired the Thiel speakers. They are very revealing speakers and sound great when everything is sorted out. However, these speakers have sent me down another rabbit hole. I suppose what I need is a little confirmation that this may just be a characteristic of the amplifier itself. If so, back it will go. Anyone care to make any suggestions? I have everything connected via high-quality RCA cables. I have not tried using the balanced connections. One other thing. This amplifier produced an absolutely incredible presentation of floor toms and drums while playing a direct to disc recording. So it has the capability to throw a nice soundstage. But, I can't live with the grainy textures on the upper midrange and lower treble. Maybe I have missed something in the setup that needs to be sorted out. Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated!
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I don't have experience with any of the components involved, but in general, it is certainly possible that characteristics of the sound can be due to the amplifier itself. Or, due to synergy or lack thereof with the speaker load presented by the Thiels. You might try different speakers if you have a secondary use, or if you're curious.
 
did i miss something? my post was deleted...hmmm....all i was mentioning it was most likely his amp and my thoughts on testing i use to do with friends when did measurements on possibility of what causes ''glare'' or ''grain'' in top-end response....ohh,well....the crown xls is very good amp and eats up heavy loads no problems(tested 1ohm nominal loads before with 20hz sinewaves for 30 minutes straight through at a time and showed to be extremely stable). emotivia were known to fail when pushed with 4ohm loads or lower even though they claimed to be stable at 2ohms...pretty much in lot of other fourms and complaints from customers of some of their products....just saying... i know the thiels are known to dip in 2ohm range through wide range of frequencies...also if using eq with it, is probably making the load more difficult. simple 3db boost of anything is double amplifier power needed so....
 
JoeESP9 said:
I have read and heard that Emotiva amplifiers respond well to a burn in. Leave it on for several days and then listen to it. You can still return it if you're not satisfied.
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i don't know if that's an issue really but, can't say. i'm kinda on the side of the boat where ''burn-in'' is not necessary or a factor since electronic components should respond and function 100% once turned on. i only know good ol' metal die T-03 transistors are known to become more linear for some reason once reached a certain temperature but, emotivia does not use metal die T-03's so...i don't know and can't conform since i never owned the specific amp the op has so, can't say for sure.
 
I have decided not to return the amp even though it does not have very good synergy with my system in the current configuration. I don't know what happened to some of the posts that used to be on this thread. Some of them seem to have been deleted. Stranger still, Emotiva (or jadedesigns) has blocked me from bidding on any of their listings on Ebay. Today, I saw an SA-250 Stealth amplifier for sale as refurbished and hit the "Best Offer" button. They accepted my offer, I paid for it, then they promptly cancelled my order and blocked me from bidding on anything else. I immediately called and asked why my bid was cancelled and was told that piece had not passed QA and was not available for sale. This makes no sense. I own several Emotiva pieces as you can see in my signature and other pieces not in my signature. I have had to send two pieces back due to no fault of my own. One was a defective XDA-2, Gen 1 that stopped working after 1 week. The other piece was an XSP-1 I purchased off of Ebay as a refurbished Gen 1 unit. When it arrived, it was actually a Gen 2 with a bad channel. When I called, they apologized and said someone shipped the wrong item. I decided I liked the Gen 2 and I had them upgrade me to a new Gen 2 model (at full price!). While I was on the phone with them I purchased a new CD player and a Gen 2 XDA-2 DAC. A few months later, I purchased the XPA-2 that this thread is about. I think I have been a loyal customer so far and in a short amount of time. I now currently own:
USP-1 Preamp
XDA-2, Gen 1 DAC
UPA-200 Amplifier
XSP-1 Gen 2 Preamp
XDA-2 Gen 2 DAC
ERC-3 CD Player
XPA-2 Gen 2 Amplifier
I have no idea why they are treating me this way. I have sent Cathy a message on Ebay asking her what the problem is, but I am not happy about being shunned by a company I am so invested in.
 
I am curious, did you experience any change in sound the more the amps were used? Or have they maintained that grainy disposition as you originally posted?

Definitely weird how you have been treated, what the hell is going on there. Keep us up to date - intriguing :confused:.

Rob :)
 
Brindabella said:
I am curious, did you experience any change in sound the more the amps were used? Or have they maintained that grainy disposition as you originally posted?

Definitely weird how you have been treated, what the hell is going on there. Keep us up to date - intriguing :confused:.

Rob :)
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I haven't noted any changes to the SQ yet. It isn't getting any better. In fact, I have re-installed the Crown amplifier for now. When speaking with the Emotiva tech yesterday, I was told the Crown is a good match for the Thiel speakers. He made mention of a new line of Emotiva speakers coming out soon and also a new line of Class D amplifiers using the IcePower modules. I am planning to do a speaker upgrade (newer) later this year so this could get interesting. I will try the Emotiva amp again then. I got a really good deal on it, so there is really no reason right now to return it.
 
Decibel_116 said:
I haven't noted any changes to the SQ yet. It isn't getting any better. In fact, I have re-installed the Crown amplifier for now. When speaking with the Emotiva tech yesterday, I was told the Crown is a good match for the Thiel speakers. He made mention of a new line of Emotiva speakers coming out soon and also a new line of Class D amplifiers using the IcePower modules. I am planning to do a speaker upgrade (newer) later this year so this could get interesting. I will try the Emotiva amp again then. I got a really good deal on it, so there is really no reason right now to return it.
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Look, it could be just as simple as 'synergy' as others and the tech at emotiva have suggested. I know there are people out there that say amps contribute little sonic value, however, my personal experience is the opposite. Maybe it might be worthwhile asking AK what people are using their emotiva's to drive and see of there is something there that peaks your interest as well. The Thiels seem like a particularly finicky speaker to match - wonder why that is.

Rob :)
 
As others have said I would suspect an interface problem between components. Doesn't your Theil use a processor for bass correction? Maybe there is an issue there. And lets face it the new amp has way to much power for your speakers. If it is a Class D amp I would be very suspicious of it. I am not saying a D amps are bad, but I never found one that could compete with Crown or Mac amp. Some Yamaha, Carver and NAD amps could be down right nasty in my experience. But that was years ago and surely the industry has the technology ironed out by now.
 
Brindabella said:
Look, it could be just as simple as 'synergy' as others and the tech at emotiva have suggested. I know there are people out there that say amps contribute little sonic value, however, my personal experience is the opposite. Maybe it might be worthwhile asking AK what people are using their emotiva's to drive and see of there is something there that peaks your interest as well. The Thiels seem like a particularly finicky speaker to match - wonder why that is.

Rob :)
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It may be as simple as "synergy". That is why I am going to keep the amplifier for now. Great idea concerning starting a new thread, I will do just that later on when time permits. Not sure what was meant by the last sentence. I have heard the Thiels present a difficult load to many amplifiers. The Thiel technical support folks have made that point to me when asking about amplification.

Thanks,
David
 
Decibel_116 said:
Not sure what was meant by the last sentence. I have heard the Thiels present a difficult load to many amplifiers. The Thiel technical support folks have made that point to me when asking about amplification.
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I meant nothing other than reflecting your own and others comments on this thread eg "I have heard the Thiels present a difficult load to many amplifiers." You made that point and Thiel themselves to you also acknowledged the issue " The Thiel technical support folks have made that point to me when asking about amplification." and Kent as just another example wrote "The Thiels are very sensitive to the gear they're partnered with."....etc. I meant nothing in the positive or negative - I have Infinity Kappa's I know they are also difficult to match with an amp and have done some reading to understand why - I merely commented with curiosity as why the Thiel's to are difficult to match.

Rob :)
 
Brindabella said:
So any ideas of what you will mate in terms of speakers with your Emotiva's?

Rob :)
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Rob, I am wide open to suggestions. I would like to find a really nice set of speakers that do not have the low impedance issues of the Thiels and others for that matter. My first "good" set of speakers were the Advent A3s which have no issues of being difficult loads. I also have a set of Dynaudio tower speakers, but they are very bright sounding with the D52F dome midrange drivers. I have heard some Infinity systems with the EMIT tweeters that I liked. Hard to find those around here for some reason. The one thing I really like about the Thiels is the element of realism the sound is reproduced with. With a good recording, they don't sound like speakers at all. They sound like instruments. If I could find something with a similar sound that I could drive to "live" levels without worrying about damaging a driver or blowing an amp, that would be ideal indeed.
 
twiiii said:
As others have said I would suspect an interface problem between components. Doesn't your Theil use a processor for bass correction? Maybe there is an issue there. And lets face it the new amp has way to much power for your speakers. If it is a Class D amp I would be very suspicious of it. I am not saying a D amps are bad, but I never found one that could compete with Crown or Mac amp. Some Yamaha, Carver and NAD amps could be down right nasty in my experience. But that was years ago and surely the industry has the technology ironed out by now.
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The XPA-2 is a class A/B

How do you mean the amp has too much power for the speakers? Isn't headroom a good thing?

I'm running my XPA-2 with dbx SF1As. I have no idea how 'difficult' a load they present the amp, but they are 4 ohm and the amp pushes them nicely.

Currently I'm using the USP-1 and a Denon DP60L with a DL301 MK1. No issues that I can hear
 
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