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How loud before your planar speakers distort?

doctor fuse

doctor fuse

Super Member
I am in awe of my planar/ribbon speakers (Beautifully made Alternate Audio PS40 planar kit, with Realistic ribbon tweeter added, and Tannoy 8" woofer for bass - the system is bi-amped between woofer, and planar/ribbon mid/high). Such a distortion free sound, until....I really crank the volume, at which point the 4' planar breaks up very loudly.

I am talking LOUD. Maybe close to, or over, 100 dB. I don't listen to this volume often, but at times I like to get the true orchestral effect, particularly on my "loud" 20th century orchestral favourites (Rite of Spring, playing right now).

MY QUESTION: Do you other planar/ribbon owners, with more expensive speakers, experience this as well? Or do the "name brands" (Magnepan, Apogee, etc) not distort at extreme, high volumes?

EDIT: All the cone speakers I have played with the same electronics (Linn Sara 9, Tannoy 609, ADC 303AX) do not distort suddenly at threshold high volumes (at least not at any volume I could bear even for a second).

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If bi-amping, what's the crossover frequency between the woofer and ribbon mid? Also, how steep is the crossover slope? If the ribbon is distorting that badly, maybe the crossover frequency should be adjusted upward, to feed more mid-bass and low mids to the Tannoy woofer, and less to the ribbon.
 
My planar experience is with Magneplanars, Infinity (with EMIM/EMIT), and Quad ESL's.

In my experience you won't get a ton of volume out of them without distortion if you're driving them full range. Adding a subwoofer, even crossed over as low as 100 hz or so, makes a world of difference. Obviously this isn't an issue with the above mentioned Infinitys, as they have a 12" woofer built in.

bs
 
That was my feeling, that planars and ribbons have a lower volume limit than cones of comparable quality.

Can't remember offhand what the crossover frequency is, but the septuagenarian gentleman who made these speakers, has become a close friend. He has offered to come over and make this a lower frequency, but our schedules haven't let it happen yet. Mostly we just want to get together to talk life, music and stereo gear!
 
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The planar mids, in my Monsoon FPF-1000 speakers, cross over at 400 Hz, via a 2nd order network. While your ribbons are much larger, I still wouldn't want to run them much below 350 Hz or so. Though, Infinity did push the Emim's to as low as 140 Hz, on RS-1B's. But, that was 6 Emim's running that low, and not a single ribbon.

Oh yea, cool speakers! I'd love to hear more about their history? Maybe your friend can post some additional details, when you 2 get together to "tweak" the system!

:beerchug:

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doctor fuse said:
That was my feeling, that planars and ribbons have a lower volume limit than cones of comparable quality!
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It’s a matter of power and diaphragm area. Ray Kimber demoed his recordings using arrays of Sound Lab stats at various shows. A four pair of Prostat 922s (nine feet tall, 22 degree radiation angle) driven by four Pass Labs X-350s is capable of pretty high output. :)

Scroll down a bit from the link.
 
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I agree with E-Stat, it's all about panel area & amp. My old Magnepan Tympanis in the moderately large (about 18'x26' iirc) listening room I had at the time, could peak a bit over 100db with an average in the low 90s, measured from my listening chair about 11' away.
Any louder, and it started to sound compressed, but still no real "break-up". I suspect the Brystons may have been the limiting factor, but mostly I just didn't want to listen at those levels!
 
I will have to try and measure a sound level over the weekend when I can crank up my Magnepans without disturbing the family. I will report back when I can.
 
Aptone said:
I will have to try and measure a sound level over the weekend when I can crank up my Magnepans without disturbing the family. I will report back when I can.
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Will this be with a sub in the mix?
I can go way louder with the SMGs and a sub than without. Without, definitely reached Mylar flap, with the sub, not an issue. I'll try over the weekend as well.
 
My Tympanis actually have a note in the price list that ARC made available back in 1977: "T-1C is for bi-amped commercial applications requiring SPL over 100 dB". The stated power rating was 350 Watts @ 8Ω and my dealer insisted that was valid. Given the sensitivity spec and power ratings, they ought to go well over 100 dB.

I don't court disaster with mine, but with peak power levels in the neighborhood of 100-150W they have been measured to produce unweighted SPL in the high 90s (I have a calibrated measurement mic and an RTA). They are tri-amped with a sub crossing over about 60 Hz. I have never heard the diaphragms bottom out even before I got the sub, but I occasionally pop the 1A fuse on the tweeters. They are rugged, but I want them to last a long time. :)
 
I accidentally pushed my Magneplaners to 75+ watts into them and they did not distort. Man, that was freaking loud.
 
I drive my maggies with either 350 wpc or 450 wpc, and they play around 100 db at max.
Most of the time I'm only feeding them ten watts or so.
2.5R and
1.6QR
 
Yup, I'm sure my average power rarely exceeds 10W per panel because the 1A fuse corresponds to roughly 8W. But of course with dynamic source material the peaks can be more than 10 dB higher - and that tracks with my LED meters. Oddly, the music which pushes them the hardest is organ music with pedal tones below 32 Hz. The sub handles the lows but when played at a realistic level, the manuals are quite a bit louder (in terms of SPL) than the pedals so the indicators really light up!
 
I had the SMGs hitting close to 85+db yesterday and they were great with the sub. No distortion at all.
 
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My original Carver Amazing Loudspeakers would never really play much above 100 dB, until I drove them with a Crown CTS 2000 amplifier. With the CTS 2000 the Carver crossovers would start to get hot and smell before any noticeable compression or distortion.
 
I tested my Maggies with my brother on Tuesday by cranking some live Genesis. I ran one pair of MG-IIb and one pair of MG-IIc simultaneously. One pair was driven by a 250 w SAE 2401 (375 w into 4 ohms) and one pair was driven by a 300 w SAE 2500 (450 w at 4 ohms). The MG-IIb pair was run through a self powered subwoofer with the crossover set to about 130 hz. Like others, I could get a consistent, undistorted sound level of 100 dB.
 
Never heard the reQuests distort... But they're in a very small room and I have neighbors upstairs. That said, when my landlords are away I've had them loud enough I could hear every word of a song from the bathroom, 30+ feet away though several walls.

I believe the electrostatic panel is crossed over around 100Hz? So I'm basically running an integrated dual sub setup.
 
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