How many have switched from MM carts to LOMC?
hifitommy
Super Member
i have both and prefer MC but having some vg MMs and a tonearm with detachable headshell allows me to switch at will. i have been listening to my grace f9e for a while, then my AT150/170ML (i have both styli) until now.. i am about to go to my fidelity research FR1MkIII next.
jgordon
Super Member
Went with "I like both."
My path has been an Audio Technica AT150MLX to a Benz Ace HOMC and now a Denon 103R LOMC. So technically I've switched, but I have nowhere near the experience or sample size to tell you that one's better, one's worse, or that I'm staying on this side of the fence.
My path has been an Audio Technica AT150MLX to a Benz Ace HOMC and now a Denon 103R LOMC. So technically I've switched, but I have nowhere near the experience or sample size to tell you that one's better, one's worse, or that I'm staying on this side of the fence.
I wentto an AT OC9 from a couple of Shure V15 somethings and a Stanton 881S originally. I then moved up to a Sumiko Pearwood Celebration along with an Acoustech Ph-1 phono pre on an Oracle Deplhi Mk2/3 with an SME 309 arm. I recently added a second table (RP6 with RB900 arm and GT sub platter) which now sports a Dynavector Karat 17d3 using a Cambridge 651C phono pre. In both cases they sound great and tho I'm sure there are MM carts out there that can sound good, I have no plans to even try. I've also tried the Dyna with the PH-1 and it sounds really good through that. I'll probably replace the PH1 at some point (maybe with a Sutherland Insight) and use the PH1 with the second system for good.
SaSi
Seriously Illogical
I wondered what's the fuss with MC carts when I was a young lad. Couldn't afford one and left it there. Was listening on a Dual 1009 with a Stanton 681EEE. Later switched to a shitty plastic belt drive when the idler on the dual wore off and nobody could do anything about it (about 1988).
FF to 2008 and I acquired a Revox B791 with an MC20MkII Ortofon MC cart. Boy what a delight. Night and day. Could not and would not go back to MM or MI.
But I did...
Several years later and TTs and carts (I do have a nice assortment of Ortofon LOMC in the MC20, 25 range) and I am now enjoying both MM and MC carts. Purchased a brand new Shure M97 last year. Just for the feeling of purchasing a new cart in 2014. It was nice. Mounted the cart on a Technics SL-1310MkII and was astonished with the neutrality of the sound and the imaging. I also have a Stanton 881S and enjoy that immensely. I also found I have an Ortofon OM20 which sounds terrific as well.
Realized I prefer the sound of the MM/MI with Rock, PoP and Folk music but prefer the MC sound with Jazz and Classical music. Especially classical music. I can even say Led Zeppelin sound a little funny with the Ortofon MC20.
I also purchased a brand new MC cart - an Denon DL-110. It isn't bad by any measure and does have the "airy" and delicate sound of the MCs but the OM20 sounds just as good and I suspect the OM40 would blow me away. Can't purchase a stylus at the moment due to capital controls imposed by our government (thank you guys, you helped me cut down on hoarding...)
So, my verdict between the two is: It depends on what you listen to. If you listen only classical music and Opera, a decent MC cart is a better bet but a very good MM will probably sound just as good. If you listen to contemporary music, a good MM is probably more enjoyable and for Rock, an MI is even better.
FF to 2008 and I acquired a Revox B791 with an MC20MkII Ortofon MC cart. Boy what a delight. Night and day. Could not and would not go back to MM or MI.
But I did...
Several years later and TTs and carts (I do have a nice assortment of Ortofon LOMC in the MC20, 25 range) and I am now enjoying both MM and MC carts. Purchased a brand new Shure M97 last year. Just for the feeling of purchasing a new cart in 2014. It was nice. Mounted the cart on a Technics SL-1310MkII and was astonished with the neutrality of the sound and the imaging. I also have a Stanton 881S and enjoy that immensely. I also found I have an Ortofon OM20 which sounds terrific as well.
Realized I prefer the sound of the MM/MI with Rock, PoP and Folk music but prefer the MC sound with Jazz and Classical music. Especially classical music. I can even say Led Zeppelin sound a little funny with the Ortofon MC20.
I also purchased a brand new MC cart - an Denon DL-110. It isn't bad by any measure and does have the "airy" and delicate sound of the MCs but the OM20 sounds just as good and I suspect the OM40 would blow me away. Can't purchase a stylus at the moment due to capital controls imposed by our government (thank you guys, you helped me cut down on hoarding...)
So, my verdict between the two is: It depends on what you listen to. If you listen only classical music and Opera, a decent MC cart is a better bet but a very good MM will probably sound just as good. If you listen to contemporary music, a good MM is probably more enjoyable and for Rock, an MI is even better.
wanders
Super Member
Can't really discuss LOMC vs mm w/o discussing sut/phonostage. If money is no object then both can produce great results. If you can spend less than $500, you're probably better off putting it all into a good mm and using your standard 47K setup. At about $500 you could get into a dl-103 + modest stage - which, IMHO, would outperform almost any comparably priced mm setup.
Have a fresh experience with switching to MC from MI!
Picked up a barely used (<50 hrs) AT 0C9III and running thru MC section of Yamaha C2-a preamplifier. It exceeds the little bit more expensive Grado Sonata 1 in sound quality, in every aspect, with exception of, and not sure yet on this, you guessed it, midrange information. I have a Rothwell SUT in route so will throw this in there and report back on how this compares to MC section of the Yammi pre. So I voted, and it's early, but went with switched to MC and not going back. Really liking what I am hearing and am quite pleased with MC section of the C2a, had never heard it before now. It is clean clear and more airy. I think I may have had a slight case of Grado hum and was in denial, as I can turn this baby up very loud with no hum. This is my first MC cart.
Want to thank the pig and others for sending me down this route. You help me to blow dollars but at least at the right stuff!
Picked up a barely used (<50 hrs) AT 0C9III and running thru MC section of Yamaha C2-a preamplifier. It exceeds the little bit more expensive Grado Sonata 1 in sound quality, in every aspect, with exception of, and not sure yet on this, you guessed it, midrange information. I have a Rothwell SUT in route so will throw this in there and report back on how this compares to MC section of the Yammi pre. So I voted, and it's early, but went with switched to MC and not going back. Really liking what I am hearing and am quite pleased with MC section of the C2a, had never heard it before now. It is clean clear and more airy. I think I may have had a slight case of Grado hum and was in denial, as I can turn this baby up very loud with no hum. This is my first MC cart.
Want to thank the pig and others for sending me down this route. You help me to blow dollars but at least at the right stuff!
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Glad to hear you are enjoying the OC 9 III, I find it to be an interesting cartridge. Over the years AT has kind of gotten the reputation of building carts that are a bit analytical, even borderline bright sounding. That has not been my experience with the OC 9 III, if anything it errs on being a bit lush and full bodied. The performance in the lower registers is just amazing on this cartridge, its a champ in the bass. Lots of good value with the OC 9 III.
I will be interested in hearing about your experience in using a SUT with it. In my system the OC9 III benefited the least from a SUT when compared to my other cartridges. But I have a phono stage that works pretty well with all but the lowest of the low output MC cartridges, so it may have a bit of an advantage.
The quality of parts found on this cartridge are pretty amazing for the price. Boron cantilever, line contact stylus, nice machined body. All good stuff for a reasonable price. That low mass tip assembly has to play a significant role in the sound quality of the AT cartridge. I always looked at the Sonata and wondered how they could justify charging that much money for a diamond chip glued to a brass bushing that is attached to a cantilever the diameter of a telephone pole. I have read numerous posts of owners of the entry level Grado wood bodied cartridges sending them to Soundsmith for a retip with the ruby cantilever and line contact stylus, and them being very pleased with the results. makes perfect sense to me.
Regards
Mister Pig
Lush and full bodied is a good way to describe what I am hearing. Detail without being analytical sounding. The bass as you say is wonderful. More taut, more defined than the Sonata for sure. The 0.4 mV output of the AT is more than enough thru the C2a MC amp and is louder than the Sonata is on the MM amp with it's 5.0 mV output. Is now more inline volume wise with my line level inputs such as CD and tuner. I chose the OC9III based on the feedback that the bass was there and was not as bright as the II, and bottom line was my Grace 707 is not a good match for the II but is for the III.
Think the C2a could handle some very low output MC's as well. New SUT I have discovered is with mailman, I hope to grab it before end of day if I am lucky. I will report back with my results.
Think the C2a could handle some very low output MC's as well. New SUT I have discovered is with mailman, I hope to grab it before end of day if I am lucky. I will report back with my results.
AvFan
Super Member
This thread popped up during my search on another topic...I'm making the transition from MM/MI to MC. I must admit I didn't go all that high up the MM ladder (Ortofon 2M Blue and Shure M91ED/SAS) and maybe I wouldn't have gone the MC route if I'd tried better MMs but at this point I have no regrets. As far as MI, specifically my Grado G1+/MCZ, I prefer it to my MMs and it is the cartridge I've spent the most time with lately but it is seeing less playing time. I am currently using an Ortofon MC Quintet Bronze on my AR XB and a retipped MC Shelter 501 II on my Audio Technica ATP-12T/SP-25 and both are terrific. I use a Parks Audio Budgie phono preamp with Amperex 7308 tubes and a Budgie SUT with Cinemag 1254 transformers. Both MCs provide enough detail to easily identify and locate each instrument in the soundstage but they aren't harsh sounding. Voices are excellent and I can hear the pick on a guitar string. Chilling sometimes.
For example my wife and I saw Mark Knopfler perform this past fall and he played the song Piper Down (from the album Get Lucky) that includes a wooden Irish flute. The beautiful tone of the wood flute made a real impression on both of us. A few months later I bought Get Lucky and the MCs reproduce that flute in Piper Down really well including the musician's vibrato. The Grado, well, the flute sounded flat and I had to listen hard to hear the vibrato. The Quintet Bronze went back on the XB.
My MC cartridges don't do some things as well as my Grado. The Grado pleasantly fills the soundstage while the MCs tend to pinpoint instruments so it depends on the music which cartridge type I prefer. The Grado also has more and only slightly less defined bass than the MCs. Lastly, the Grado is more forgiving of poorly recorded/mastered/pressed records and has a little less surface noise. But with a good record (MFSL, Acoustic Sounds/QRP, etc or anything mastered by Bob Ludwig) I will likely be play it using a MC cartridge.
P.S. Just listened to Dire Straits Telegraph Road with the Shelter. Wow!
For example my wife and I saw Mark Knopfler perform this past fall and he played the song Piper Down (from the album Get Lucky) that includes a wooden Irish flute. The beautiful tone of the wood flute made a real impression on both of us. A few months later I bought Get Lucky and the MCs reproduce that flute in Piper Down really well including the musician's vibrato. The Grado, well, the flute sounded flat and I had to listen hard to hear the vibrato. The Quintet Bronze went back on the XB.
My MC cartridges don't do some things as well as my Grado. The Grado pleasantly fills the soundstage while the MCs tend to pinpoint instruments so it depends on the music which cartridge type I prefer. The Grado also has more and only slightly less defined bass than the MCs. Lastly, the Grado is more forgiving of poorly recorded/mastered/pressed records and has a little less surface noise. But with a good record (MFSL, Acoustic Sounds/QRP, etc or anything mastered by Bob Ludwig) I will likely be play it using a MC cartridge.
P.S. Just listened to Dire Straits Telegraph Road with the Shelter. Wow!
A minor update--I still have the Dynavector XX2 Mk II but now run it through a Phonomena II+ phono stage. The detail and tonal balance of the phono stage is nice, but I find it somewhat noisy (that faint low-level hiss) at the 60dB setting, due to the low output of the XX2. I'm not certain if that is just how these things go, or if it's the crummy wall wart power supply pushing out some sort of "switching" noise (which can happen with the rectifier).
I am also considering an AT33PTG/II as a backup cart, and to give it a try and see how it compares in terms of trackability. Yet I still think I might prefer to go back to the 17D3 though.
I am also considering an AT33PTG/II as a backup cart, and to give it a try and see how it compares in terms of trackability. Yet I still think I might prefer to go back to the 17D3 though.
Make sure about the IC routing that your not crossing inputs and outputs at the stage. And the output should be the last you rout to the Preamp trying to keep it loose and away from other IC.
And very good quality IC will help all of the above.