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How much would I have to spend to better my Pioneer PL-550?

Brett a

Brett a

~◦●○o0o○●◦~
I feel as though my amp,speakers, CDP, phono stage and cables are all on par with each other (list below). Now I'd love to bring my TT (and cart?) up to spec. I wish I could spend $1200+ on a VPI, Pro-Ject, or something like that, but I just won't be able to for the foreseeable future---maybe next winter.

Short of spending $1k+, What price point would I have to hit for a new TT to better my Pioneer PL-550? Do you think a $300 Rega, Cambridge Audio, or Music Hall would be a worthwhile upgrade? Would I put the 440MLa on one of these? Or should I just enjoy the PL 550/AT440MLA 'til I'm ready to spend $1k+?

Your subjective opinion is most welcome.:yes:

Amp: Shanling A3000
Speakers: B&W 683 floorstanders
CDP: Rotel RCD 1070
Phono Stage: Cambridge Azure 640p
TT: Pioneer PL 550
Cart: AT440MLa
Siltech New York ICs
AQ and Signal AC cords
 
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You can pick up a really fine Technics SL1200 for less than $400 usually.. SOme places out there sell some really nice rebuilts and some new... hard to beat the quality for the price..
 
I have compared the Technics to the PL-550 and IMO the Pioneer wins easily. I have owned the 550 and currently own the 570 which is the automated version. I would lay bets that the Pioneer will easily rival if not better any of the models you mentioned. It is not junk. To improve the sound my suggestion would be a better cartridge. Good as the 440 is, there's PLENTY of room for improvement. If you are not convinced , go ahead and buy one of those tables and do a head to head comparison. I'd be very interested in the results.

FYI, the 550 retailed for $350 back in 1976. In todays dollars it would be a $1000+ machine. Spec-wise (speed accuracy and rumble) those belt drives won't come close to the quartz lock.
 
hakaplan said:
I have compared the Technics to the PL-550 and IMO the Pioneer wins easily. I have owned the 550 and currently own the 570 which is the automated version. I would lay bets that the Pioneer will rival if not better any of the models you mentioned. It is not junk. To improve the sound my suggestion would be a better cartridge. Good as the 440 is, there's PLENTY of room for improvement. If you are not convinced , go ahead and buy one of those tables and do a head to head comparison. I'd be very interested in the results.

FYI, the 550 retailed for $350 back in 1976. In todays dollars it would be a $1000+ machine.
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Believe me, I know the 550 isn't junk. :yes:I've been very grateful to have it (got it for $5 at a local grade-school tag sale:thmbsp:).

Maybe my interest in considering new is off target:
Beside the possibility of a general upgrade, I'd like to know that everything is operating to spec. And at 30 years old, I have to assume that the 550 isn't running as perfectly as it did when it was new.
Also, I'd like a TT that is capable of presenting a quieter/blacker background. Maybe these two issues are related?

Why don't I see any direct drive TTs (at least in the $300-$1200 range) now-a-days? Hasn't the industry moved past DD technology?

As far as a cart. upgrade, perhaps I could sell the 440MLa to offset the cost of something better.
 
My subjective opinion is that $1k is not going to get You a better TT. Spending like $400 on a new cart will certainly better the AT.
/gusten
 
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I concur with all. You can get your Pioneer serviced, maybe change the cables (they do pick up atmospheric moisture over time unless the original dielectric was teflon?) and get a bit of improvement there. Re-making all the wiring contacts with De-Oxit or touching up the solder joints in the signal stream would help a great deal. Then you will be getting what the cartridge is putting out (any cartridge). If the bearings are in good shape, the mat is not hard as a brick, you are good to go :)

So now it's onto the next places to work. The phono stage in your chain is new, so not much to do there? The current cartridge is sort of the bottom of the "real" hi-fi ladder. I'd keep it, get a few more headshells and mount some additional cartridges. Maybe a Grado for that sound and one other like an OM?

But, the big thing is to get a cartridge that is a step or three up the line. I suspect that your TT will easily support up to $1K cartridge. I've never understood folks who spend $800 on a table and put $150 cartridge on it? It needs to be the other way round. The cartridge generates the signal. The table just carries it and tries to stay out of the way.

Anyway, maybe a ClearAudio? At least an AT150MLX. Maybe a ZXY if that's your taste? Even a new Ortofon 2M Bronze or above would be a step up from where you are.
 
Brett a said:
Why don't I see any direct drive TTs (at least in the $300-$1200 range) now-a-days? Hasn't the industry moved past DD technology?
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Only because of cost. It would be prohibitively expensive for today's turntable makers to manufacture direct drive turntables. Much cheaper to use a motor and belt. Technics already has the tooling set up for direct drive so they can continue to produce it at low cost.
 
BrocLuno said:
I concur with all. You can get your Pioneer serviced, maybe change the cables (they do pick up atmospheric moisture over time unless the original dielectric was teflon?) and get a bit of improvement there. Re-making all the wiring contacts with De-Oxit or touching up the solder joints in the signal stream would help a great deal. Then you will be getting what the cartridge is putting out (any cartridge).
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Would this be in the realm of an cautious, careful, but inexperienced DIYer? (That'd be me)
BrocLuno said:
If the bearings are in good shape, the mat is not hard as a brick, you are good to go :)
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The mat is still supple and soft. I don't know about the bearings. How do I check them?
Two things I know that may point to bearing condition are that after I switch the power off, the platter coasts for 9 to 12 revolutions. Is that an indication of anything good or bad? When its running, it looks like it spins smooth and level. But I just noticed yesterday that if I push down on on the platter out at at the edge, there is a bit of play.
BrocLuno said:
The phono stage in your chain is new, so not much to do there?
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Yes. Two days old and well regarded by folks further up the hifi food chain than me.
BrocLuno said:
The current cartridge is sort of the bottom of the "real" hi-fi ladder. I'd keep it, get a few more headshells and mount some additional cartridges. Maybe a Grado for that sound and one other like an OM? But, the big thing is to get a cartridge that is a step or three up the line. I suspect that your TT will easily support up to $1K cartridge.
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I have two extra headshells already. What to put on them? The phono stage is MM MC switchable, so that extends my options.
BrocLuno said:
I've never understood folks who spend $800 on a table and put $150 cartridge on it? It needs to be the other way round. The cartridge generates the signal. The table just carries it and tries to stay out of the way.
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Yea, the Sumiko Oyter I had sounded terrible and it came on a $700 Pro-Ject!
BrocLuno said:
Anyway, maybe a ClearAudio? At least an AT150MLX. Maybe a ZXY if that's your taste? Even a new Ortofon 2M Bronze or above would be a step up from where you are.
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I'll look into these.
 
Keep the TT unless you are ready to spend $1K or better on a new one. Get this TT to a competent TT tech. Unless you are a very hand diy'r who just happens to be inexperienced on TTs, I would use an experienced tech.

Get a new cartridge. The AT 150 is a reasonable recommendation. Others might be Dyna 10X5, Benz Micro Silver, Clearaudio Aurum Alpha (I'm going on reputation) or Grado Platinum (if your TT doesn't have a hum issue with Grado).

If you would like to upgrade further after that, I would get a better phono amp. The Cambridge 640p is competent and certainly is a very reasonable match for the AT440MLa but if you are refurb'ing your TT and upgrading the cartridge you can get better performance with a better phono amp. I would keep an eye on audiogon.com for a used Bottlehead Seduction or Hagerman Cornet II - $300 - $500 range depending. These phono amps are a great deal.
 
If JCMJRT says it's so - it is. She's a wise and reserved person in her opinions. I have yet to get into a fire bottle phono amp, but I'm sure I will one day. I have heard them and they are impressive. But no point in going there without the cartridge to match :)

I'd class your arm as medium mass. Most mass market "hi-fi" cartridges will work. Things don't get too tricky until you cross the $750 barrier. At that point, I'd be weighing the headshells and wires and playing the total mass game to get the best match I could in terms of resonance.

The bearings are good if 1.) they were sealed bearings from the factory - Hakaplan may know? 2.) if the platter spins very quietly under light finger pressure and spins for a good while (power off). A good polished oil filled spindle bearing with a heavy platter will take more than 30 seconds, sometimes a minute or two, to spin down. Your table has other factors like motor magnets and such that effect the spin down. So light touch and feel for any roughness or resistance. You can remove the platter and spin the spindle with two fingers to see what that feels like too? It should feel silky smooth. A little play at the edge, maybe 1/16" is just bearing clearance. Any more than that or any clicking and you have issues.
 
PL-550 is a very nice table. I have both the PL-550 and the PL-570. You *do* mean the woodgrain-and-big heavy platter version, not the black plastic one, correct? Pioneer did recycle model numbers...there are some 'bad' PL-530's and PL-570's which in no way resemble their earlier counterparts....550 might be one also. But I digress.

To flog a dead horse, you would have to spend quite a bit to outshine an up-to-snuff PL-550. It's a fine performer. I would take it over a Technics SL1200MKII, though that's a close match. I like mine very much.

And as I believe Howard stated, direct drive isn't prevalent today mostly because of tooling costs and the number of units that would have to be sold to recoup those. In the turntable heyday, it made business sense. Now, not so much.
 
hakaplan said:
Only because of cost. It would be prohibitively expensive for today's turntable makers to manufacture direct drive turntables. Much cheaper to use a motor and belt. Technics already has the tooling set up for direct drive so they can continue to produce it at low cost.
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Howard is correct (like that's a suprise) other direct drives are still built today, besides the 1200 and the Denon DP-500M there are a number of others that get real expensive.

Case in point http://www.teresaudio.com/certus/

Sansui Louie said:
PL-550 is a very nice table. I have both the PL-550 and the PL-570. You *do* mean the woodgrain-and-big heavy platter version, not the black plastic one, correct? Pioneer did recycle model numbers...there are some 'bad' PL-530's and PL-570's which in no way resemble their earlier counterparts....550 might be one also. But I digress.

To flog a dead horse, you would have to spend quite a bit to outshine an up-to-snuff PL-550. It's a fine performer. I would take it over a Technics SL1200MKII, though that's a close match. I like mine very much.

And as I believe Howard stated, direct drive isn't prevalent today mostly because of tooling costs and the number of units that would have to be sold to recoup those. In the turntable heyday, it made business sense. Now, not so much.
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Take it easy on the horses:D but yes. If you have the above stated version of the 550, your options as to a cartridge are wide open. If you have the proper phono preamp, try an upscale MC.

If you have an audio shop that sells em', go visit and have a listen.

Maybe head to AK fest!
 
Sansui Louie said:
To flog a dead horse, you would have to spend quite a bit to outshine an up-to-snuff PL-550. It's a fine performer. I would take it over a Technics SL1200MKII, though that's a close match. I like mine very much.
Click to expand...

Ya' know, I'd like to hear that match-up. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it were fairly even IF both TTs were working to spec and set-up properly. There's a slight advantage to the Technics with upgrades and parts availability but I know that I wouldn't spend the money on a new TT JUST for that.

One other thought for an upgrade to your TT set-up ...work on isolating your TT better. There has been lots of discussion about commercial and diy ways of isolating your TT if you do some searches - everything from butcher block, wall shelf mounting, sandbox, and gingko cloud, etc. It depends on your set-up but it can be a significant upgrade in and of itself.
 
Sansui Louie said:
PL-550 is a very nice table. I have both the PL-550 and the PL-570. You *do* mean the woodgrain-and-big heavy platter version, not the black plastic one, correct?
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Yes, it is one of the big rigs from the late 70's(?) with a picture of wood glued to it. :D
jcmjrt said:
One other thought for an upgrade to your TT set-up ...work on isolating your TT better. There has been lots of discussion about commercial and diy ways of isolating your TT if you do some searches - everything from butcher block, wall shelf mounting, sandbox, and gingko cloud, etc. It depends on your set-up but it can be a significant upgrade in and of itself.
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Just last night I drew up plans for a sandbox. I'll be away all next week and will want to get right to work on it when I get back.

Right now, it's sitting on a 75lb birch ply record crate sandwiched between two slabs of MDF, spiked to the floor with a Celotex panel thrown in for good measure. On top of all this, the TT sits on another piece of MDF spiked up with three cones. It's got mass and a bit of de-coupling, but I think a sandbox will make a big difference. (I don't have current photos,- I don't own a camera- but the ones linked in my signature will show you what I'm working with. Just picture the TT set up on a third crate to the left of the amp-with it all re-centered of course.)
 
While we are talking cartridges, has anyone tried a Goldring 1012 ? How does it compair at the $300 price point ?
 
Have heard good things about the Goldring. Have not played or heard one first hand. I'm interested in comment too?
 
Upgrade Pioneer Turntable

I'll highly second the motion of isolateing the TT. I have my turntables mounted/balanced on Target wall shelves and the sound is rock solid. A lot of the performance is in the basics done right. Another item is makeing sure the cartridge is properly aligned/mounted, again I didn't leave anything to chance, paid the price and got a Dennesen Soundtractor and the alignment is spot on. As others have said upgrade the phono cables and keep an eye out for a serious cartridge, some beauties show up on Agon with low hours and many times at a fraction of their original cost. Sounds like you have a very nice table to start with and it's well worth sinking some money into it, your going to spend a lot more for something new that would equal it.
 
I’m getting the solid message that my PL-550 is a very good deck and I’d have to spend serious money to better it with a new rig. I’m on the verge of looking for a good tech to rewire the arm, but I still have one curiosity: The S arm.

Hasn’t the S arm with detachable head shell been left behind (on “audiophile” decks anyway-I’m not into any funny DJ business)? And if it has, could it mean that the newer straight, one-piece arms are inherently superior?

Thanks again for all your helpful input.
 
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