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How to best the Sansui X-Balanced amps?

toneriderMUC

toneriderMUC

Active Member
I am writing out of curiosity. I own and adore an Au x701, which not even is one of the highest Alpha models - quite in contrary. (Still, I heard side to side to an Au 607mrx and preferred the x701. The mrx was more straight wire perfect, but the x701 has more soul. Its like a silken velvet blanket, Vinyl sounds stunning).
I use Yamaha NS 690 II speakers, these like a bit of clean power and they also hamonize best with not too cold sounding amps.

Out of interest, I recently put up my humble x701 against modern amps that earn high praise everywhere. I first tested a hybrid Vincent SP 331 Mk power amp in combination with a Nakamichi CA5 preamp. This combination had my Yamahas a bit better in control than the x701. Bass response through the Vincent was spectacular. But apart from that? Notably less details across the board. And less emotions, sound "colors". Maybe more perfect, but less enjoyable. And in terms of microdynamics, little details and shadings, the Sansui just wins.

Next was the Yamaha A-S 1100. This is also a wonderful built amp, but soundwise I was really disappointed. It doesnt to anything actually wrong, it just sounds a bit boring, flat and lifeless. Bass control and details are better on the Sansui. And the Sansui is just such a musical amp, music comes really alive with it.

I have so say, I got my x701 for 250€. From two amps that cost both close to 2000€ new, I expected them to beat my Sui and hands down, that would have been alright then.
But they didnt. They went, the Sansui stays.

Now this raises the question for me - just out if interest - what would you have to buy, pay, to get actually something that is truly better?

And also, as I believe this is a part of the magic: why are no other manufacturers using something like the xbalanced concept? The Yamaha uses a ground free design, which could be a similar approach; but obviously without the sonic benefit those Sansuis have.
Amps with the xbalanced circuit to me are like a special breed among all amplifiers. Once you heard them, they cannot be unheard - its that good.

I know in the end its pointless to wonder - as long as we enjoy listening to music. but still, these comparisons left me a bit stunned.

What do you think?
 
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I have had two X-balanced amps, The AU-G99X (Total powerhouse, though no longer have it) and AU-D11 MK2 (restored). Both are wonderful musical sounding amps. I also have the Yamaha AS-2100, which is similar to the AS-1100 (MOSFET, Balanced Power Amp like AS-1100, but supposedly higher grade parts) and in my comparisons with the Sansui AU-D11 MK2, I too felt that the Yamaha was missing a little top end sparkle. I think its more to do with the philosophy around how Yamaha likes to voice their "Natural Sound" Amplifiers. Never the less its hard to put a price on "comparable" amps because modern gear that is sold is highly appreciated because they are "new", have to account for manufacturer and dealer commissions. Comparing value of vintage amps is often misleading. But I would rate my AU-D11 Mk2 at the same level my AS-2100 which costs around $3000 new.
 
I have the AU-Alpha707 which is the slightly higher powered (and Japanese) version of your X701. Yes, the Alpha707 has a bit more flavour than the later Alphas like the MR as you pointed out. I think the differences you hear are mainly 'voicing' rather than due to x-balanced topology. You can buy better engineered amps if you spend on boutique items, but you may lose the flavour you like. You may just have to experiment more and more. Or just sit back and be happy :)
 
I also have an X-701 and a 607-DR, and both have excellent sound. Although I love Sansui's previous series (I've had 777,888,999,717, 719 ....) and they all have something special, the X-701 is my main system connected to the Tannoy Arden. Rarely is so much sound quality found in its price range, the 701 never disappoints. I hope someday to be able to try a high-end alpha, any 907 would be worth :D:D:D ....
 
Since i have touched thousands of modern and vintage amps, what i can say, allways in the same price vintage will sound better and will be better build, simple as that.

What to change in next step? to higher model of Sansui Alpha.

I had top of the line Marantz, Krell, Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon and some truly high grade Accuphase, Luxman and many many other brands and when i heard Sansui Alpha 1st time i knew since then i want to own one, few next months i had listened to some separeted Sansui Amps and what i can say now? they seems to be unbeatable at their price and even more.

Sansui alpha amps are completed, what i mean by this word?
well designed, well built, with history, with unbeatable sound
 
I had a different experience.
My alpha disappointed me big time.
It was a 907 imos limited.
Maybe it needs some refreshing dose. But it wasnt coming any close to my older sansuis ...the aud707x and the 777D
 
Sansui amplifiers I have heard, AU-D101, AU-505, AU-6600, AU-5500, AU-317, AU-517, AU-717, AU-7900, AU-9900, AU-719, AU-919, AU-X1, AU-X11, B-2102/C-2102, B-2301/C-2301, AU-X711, AU-X701, AU-X901, AU-D9, AU-D11 II, AU-Alpha607DR, AU-Alpha907 Limited, BA-5000, BA-F1/CA-F1 and 1000X, G-7000 & 9090 (for you 'receiver guys' :) )

And the best, the most sublime of them all - the Sansui AU-Alpha907 Limited, no question in my mind. - take from that what you will.....

With a C-2301 & B-2301 combination running it a very close second.

(updated 11/12/2021)
 
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Amplifiers from Sansui (all types) which I have listened to critically, most over many years time, and (nearly) all of which I still own today, listed here in rough order of increasing sound quality:
771
881,
7000
9090DB
Seven
Eight Deluxe
Eight
G-801
G-9000
AU-2000
AU-919
AU-G99X
AU-X711
AU-X911DG

No direct personal experience with other Sansui amplifiers, the only one now gone is the 9090DB.
I would love to acquire an Alpha, I just don’t know which one will most “soundly” edge out my much loved AU-X911DG!
 
M-D-Z said:
Amplifiers from Sansui (all types) which I have listened to critically, most over many years time, and (nearly) all of which I still own today, listed here in rough order of increasing sound quality:
771
881,
7000
9090DB
Seven
Eight Deluxe
Eight
G-801
G-9000
AU-2000
AU-919
AU-G99X
AU-X711
AU-X911DG

No direct personal experience with other Sansui amplifiers, the only one now gone is the 9090DB.
I would love to acquire an Alpha, I just don’t know which one will most “soundly” edge out my much loved AU-X911DG!
Click to expand...
You have three Alphas, the X911, X711, and G99X

X-Balance and Alpha are the same, unless I'm remembering wrong.
 
BigElCat said:
You have three Alphas, the X911, X711, and G99X

X-Balance and Alpha are the same, unless I'm remembering wrong.
Click to expand...

ok, I was under the (probably mistaken) impression that the only ‘true‘ alphas were ones that had the odd little squiggle “a” prefix in the model, like my Japan market 100V CD player, ‘CD-a617D extra‘.
 
M-D-Z said:
ok, I was under the (probably mistaken) impression that the only ‘true‘ alphas were ones that had the odd little squiggle “a” prefix in the model, like my Japan market 100V CD player, ‘CD-a617D extra‘.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I can't remember right now.

We've discussed this in depth on this forum, it's very interesting. Alpha X or Aelph X was the original trade name.
 
BigElCat said:
You have three Alphas, the X911, X711, and G99X

X-Balance and Alpha are the same, unless I'm remembering wrong.
Click to expand...

Close but no cigar... of those three amps mentioned above, the G99X is x-balanced only, whilst the 711 and 911DG are both alpha x-balanced.

The 'alpha' name was applied to x-balanced models from 1986 onward and reflects an evolution of the original x-balanced circuitry.
 
pete_mac said:
Close but no cigar... of those three amps mentioned above, the G99X is x-balanced only, whilst the 711 and 911DG are both alpha x-balanced.

The 'alpha' name was applied to x-balanced models from 1986 onward and reflects an evolution of the original x-balanced circuitry.
Click to expand...
This makes me wonder why they included an Alpha “a” in the model designation for my CD player, a JDM unit, Sansui CD-a 617D EXTRA, that is if the Alpha refers to amplifier circuitry design features.

Maybe for Sansui, the name Alpha went on to serve the same marketing purpose as what the name Elite did for Pio, ES - elevated standard in SONY or AMG for MB cars.
 
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M-D-Z said:
This makes me wonder why they included an Alpha “a” in the model designation for my CD player, a JDM unit, Sansui CD-a 617D EXTRA, that is if the Alpha refers to amplifier circuitry design features.

Maybe for Sansui, the name Alpha went on to serve the same marketing purpose as what the name Elite did for Pio, ES - elevated standard in SONY or AMG for MB cars.
Click to expand...

I think you raise an excellent point, and my theory is that from 1986 onwards, Sansui made a marketing/branding decision to add the alpha designation to a wide range of gear across its premium range model ranges - amps, tuners, CD players, DACs, AV selectors etc. This happened to coincide with a minor evolution of the existing x-balanced amplifier circuit design (resulting in the branding of the amps as "alpha x-balanced").

At the end of the day, there's not an enormous difference between the x-balanced and alpha x-balanced amps - it's not as though they feature a substantially revised circuit over the non-alpha models. However, to be accurate, we shouldn't be calling the earlier x-balanced amps 'alphas' despite the circuit design similarities.
 
Have and had a couple ( few ?) Sui pieces. None worth adding to the conversation.
( maybe side note. I thought the amp section of my AU- 20000 was pretty special. I was unimpressed with the preamp section)
Looking at Alpha AU-907 limited
(Window shopping on Hyperion's comments,. Not really in the market).
I ran across 3 different pieces.
Said amp, and MOS version and a D version.
I guess if you were around at the time, this would all make sense but as something of an outsider looking in, I'm guessing the first is what he was referring to.
Anybody have a clue of a timeline and the differences?
 
I can understand the confusion, the '907' model number has been used often.
For example:

AU-alpha907 Limited (champagne)
AU-alpha907i MOS Limited (piano black)
AU-D907 (black)
AU-D907X (silver or black)
AU-D907X Decade (black)
AU-D907F (black)
AU-D907F Extra (black or silver)
AU-D907G Extra (black or silver)

All different.

There are probably more...

Those 'in the know' please correct, update, add to, this list. ;)
 
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Thanks for the clarification. I assumed as much.
Sometimes its a cosmetic change, sometimes a tweak or the addition or subtraction of a few bells and whistles.
Sometimes its a whole different animal.
I'd like to run across one . Happy enough ( read very happy) with current gear that I'm not jumping through hoops to get (hear) one. If one crosses my path and I can't live without, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. :rolleyes:
 
There isn't really any huge or even slight differences between x-balanced and a-x balanced , circuits. Basically they are the same with just some minor modifications .
Architecture - topology are the same.
Same applies for hyper a-x balanced in the later alphas, and the ultimate a-x balanced in the last productions. Same circuits same all same all , just some minor touches here and there to justify voicing maybe.
When you look at the schematic , of B2301 AND B2105 OR AU-a907MR , they are the same thing. Only slight differences in values, apart from the different voltages from the transformer.
That's it.
 
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