Hpm 100

[automojo]

Just had another experience with this speaker. The neighbors kid is getting into audio , and his first purchase was a pair of mint HPM 100's he found at a pawn shop for $125.
Since he has no real electronics as of yet, we hooked them up to my system. All I can say, is I'm not sure why there are so many people that like these, no offense please. I think my little Minimus 7 speaker in the garage are worlds above these. If you like the disco, bloated midbass, and poor imaging, than these are for you. Sorry HPM fans, these really sound funky.
And the neighbor kid had to agree.
We manged to find a nice pair of DLK 1 1/2's off Craiglist for $75 and put the HPM's on criaglist for $200, and they sold in a day.
I let him borrow my Onkyo TX 8522 and old Dual 505-2 and JVC changer till he gets his own stuff. Makes for a really nice system.
Perhaps the crossovers were malfunctiong, I don't think so, they remind of the ones I heard at Schaack Electronics years ago-too many drivers that lead to poor imaging, and a midbass honk.
Perhaps there is a better model?

 

[lunchmeat]

Wow!

I always thought these sounded pretty good. They remind me a lot of JBLs of the era; bright, with deep bass. While all speakers sound different, I would put these in the "pretty decent" category. IMHO

 

[avguytx]

So what kind of electronics were "upstream" when you were judging them?

 

[Zilch]

I believe the forum pretty well knows what HPM-100s are from this thread and others linked there:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119789

West Coast, similar to JBL L100 (NOT L100t or L100t3).

FAKE, but fun!

Boomy bass, forward midrange, and rolled-off highs (maybe).

They're less about imaging than playing air guitar and practising your Chuck Berry moves.

RayW's checking out a pair, but may still need a woofer for one of them, if anyone's willing to assist in that effort.... :thmbsp:

 

[RayW]

RayW's checking out a pair, but may still need a woofer for one of them, if anyone's willing to assist in that effort.... :thmbsp:

Calling me out, eh? I finally got to the hardware store and picked up some epoxy. I have the magnet stuck to the core/backplate and I have the jig built to align the magnet to the coil/topplate. Just gotta get out to the shop and do it. If I can get that put back together and working I'll see what I can do about some listening. I've listened to the working one in mono and it's just like Z describes. Big bass, mids out front but I didn't really play with the high end much. I was waiting until I got both going.

Ray

 

[Zilch]

Calling me out, eh?

I'm hoping you'll set up your measurement gear too, Ray. :yes:

We need more curves posted on AK!

[Heh, heh.... ]

 

[automojo]

So what kind of electronics were "upstream" when you were judging them?

I was using a H/K PA -2400, Carver Cm-2002 preamp, NAD C-252BEE CD player, also a Marantz CC-4300 changer/ H/K T45 with Shure M97xe cartridge, decent interconnect cables/power cables. I also plugged in a m-400t I currently have up for auction, and they faired no better, high or low volumes.
The DLK 1 1/2's, of which I also have a pair in my office, are far superior in overall balance, as well as imaging, and accurate bass response. I tried a wide range of material, including, blues, classical, rock from Kiss to Husker Du, Mission of Burma, etc, This is were I tough they would excel. They did sound a bit better, but the over emphasised bass is a real turn off. Ok, KC and the Sunshine Band was decent. Reminds me of too many speakers in the 70's the sales men would try and push because of their markup.
My current main system uses uses (believe it or not) 2 way KG 5.5's. I listened to many speakers in that price range at the time, and including all of the Klipsch "classic line" and these blew them all away in terms of accurate imaging, and over smooth response, and real bass response. Plus they have the ablility to play very loud without distortion or response analomies, which what I was looking for.
I leave the tone controls totally flat for these speakers, with the exception of a subsonic filter.The KG's totally blow both speakers away in the bass department. Clean, powerful bass down to 34hz. My Large Advents give the KG's a run for the money in the bass department, but aren't as clean in the lower regions. But they totally point out the lack of real(istic) bass in the HPM's. The HPM's seem to peak in the 55hz range, very annoying. While the DLK probably lack significant bass below 40hz, they bow out gracefully, with out trying to pretend they have real low bass response.
As I mentioned, I think part of the problem with them, with the exception of the bass response, is too many drivers trying to do too many things at the same time, it totally messes up the sound stage.

I will be interested in the measurements, it will be elightening for sure. However measurements only give you a ball park figure of what they should do, not the actual listening experience, They would be usefull in seeing the midbass peak, and the smoothness, or the lack of smoothness in the high frequency end.
Plus it might point out why some have spoken about a need for a subwoofer to augment bass response. In a speaker this large this should not be needed. Both KG's and Advents would not benefit from a subwoofer, which really only adds confusion to the sound It's pretty easy for me to locate a subwoofer in most systems, unless they are between the main speakers. The DLK's, perhaps might benefit from one, but I have never felt the need one since they roll off so smooth.

 

[RayW]

Ok, a little jab and I get into gear (albeit low gear). I got out to the shop, aligned the motor on a test run, then with epoxy. It'll be a few hours before it's cured but I'd expect to be functional tomorrow unless something shifts or I got way too much epoxy and the jig is glued to the magnet (I've done stranger things...not many but some). I guess it would still play that way, just be a little heavier.

Anyway, I have a houseguest for the next week so it'll be a bit before I can go a-measuring but I'll get to it.

For anyone who didn't catch the thread where I talked about these, I got a set of HPM-100s but one of the woofer magnets had shifted. I'm in the process of rebuilding it.

Ray

 

[Zilch]

As I mentioned, I think part of the problem with them, with the exception of the bass response, is too many drivers trying to do too many things at the same time, it totally messes up the sound stage.

Not being mirror-imaged has a lot to do with that, and, as you mention, the fact that the filters are not bandpass.

There are many multi-ways, even with clustered drivers, that do it well.... :yes:

Anyway, I have a houseguest for the next week so it'll be a bit before I can go a-measuring but I'll get to it.

Thanks for kicking this up the list, Ray. There'll be some a-listening happening, as well, I betcha....

 

[Tripqzon]

How about disconnecting the woofer completely from the crossover and doing some kind of bi-amping with the HPM's?

 

[Zilch]

How about disconnecting the woofer completely from the crossover and doing some kind of bi-amping with the HPM's?

It's the mids and highs that need attention with respect to imaging and soundstage, more likely. "Fixing" the bass can be separately addressed. One member is experimenting with all that, actively crossed and EQ'd.

Let's see what Ray comes up with. I'm confident he will have some ideas about what, if anything, is appropriate; he's got buckets of experience in loudspeaker design.... :yes:

 

[automojo]

Not being mirror-imaged has a lot to do with that, and, as you mention, the fact that the filters are not bandpass.

There are many multi-ways, even with clustered drivers, that do it well.... :yes:

Perhaps you are right, I just have never run across them yet.

 

[automojo]

It's the mids and highs that need attention with respect to imaging and soundstage, more likely. "Fixing" the bass can be separately addressed. One member is experimenting with all that, actively crossed and EQ'd.

Let's see what Ray comes up with. I'm confident he will have some ideas about what, if anything, is appropriate; he's got buckets of experience in loudspeaker design.... :yes:

I can completley understand the tweaking issue. But why not start out with something that is a better design? Perhaps there are more merits to these speakers than I realize, or that many of those out there that have them have the need to make them work better. Or a combination of both.
Maybe a clean sheet might be better? My experience with reegineered componets has been mixed at best.
However, my curiosity will leave it at that, and look forward to seeing what happens.

 

[yungin's-dad]

automojo,

That's cool to hear of you taking the kid under your wing and helping him out. I'm sure he'll always remember you for that. As for the HPM-100's, it's been a long time since I've heard them, I know I wasn't real impressed with my HPM-150's, they just wasn't for me. Some like them, some don't.

Cool story, thanks for sharin'.

Ron

 

[needforspeed]

Just had another experience with this speaker. The neighbors kid is getting into audio , and his first purchase was a pair of mint HPM 100's he found at a pawn shop for $125.
Since he has no real electronics as of yet, we hooked them up to my system. All I can say, is I'm not sure why there are so many people that like these, no offense please. I think my little Minimus 7 speaker in the garage are worlds above these. If you like the disco, bloated midbass, and poor imaging, than these are for you. Sorry HPM fans, these really sound funky.
And the neighbor kid had to agree.
We manged to find a nice pair of DLK 1 1/2's off Craiglist for $75 and put the HPM's on criaglist for $200, and they sold in a day.
I let him borrow my Onkyo TX 8522 and old Dual 505-2 and JVC changer till he gets his own stuff. Makes for a really nice system.
Perhaps the crossovers were malfunctiong, I don't think so, they remind of the ones I heard at Schaack Electronics years ago-too many drivers that lead to poor imaging, and a midbass honk.
Perhaps there is a better model?

Really, How are they set up, Whats driving them, Are all drivers working. The only issue I had was the tweeter. Switching to a second gen HPM driver, And putting it on-axis with the midrange, Made all the difference. But hey, They can compete with any vintage loudspeaker out there as they were, Properly set up, And driven with decent power.

 

[Mark W.]

Glad everyone is entitled to the their opinion.

Also glad mine disagrees with yours

 

[automojo]

automojo,

That's cool to hear of you taking the kid under your wing and helping him out. I'm sure he'll always remember you for that. As for the HPM-100's, it's been a long time since I've heard them, I know I wasn't real impressed with my HPM-150's, they just wasn't for me. Some like them, some don't.

Cool story, thanks for sharin'.

Ron

Thanks Ron, hopefully my twin daughters on the way (identical to boot!) will enjoy good sound as well. I think I will move the DLK's in the babys room, and try to get that old Technics SA-600 fixed to drive them.:thmbsp:

 

[automojo]

Really, How are they set up, Whats driving them, Are all drivers working. The only issue I had was the tweeter. Switching to a second gen HPM driver, And putting it on-axis with the midrange, Made all the difference. But hey, They can compete with any vintage loudspeaker out there as they were, Properly set up, And driven with decent power.

These are of course my opinions, and they obviously differ from yours. My point wasn't to trash HPM's but give my honest opinion. I have heard lot's of speakers over the years, these models brand new in the store, and they sound the same. All the drivers were functioning.
Perhaps they can be improved with a better crossover/filters, or sticking with one tweeter, instead of two.
But in the end, it's the sound that matters, not the gear. And if you like them, I think that's great., and I didn't mean to offend your choice in gear.
Good listening!

 

[needforspeed]

These are of course my opinions, and they obviously differ from yours. My point wasn't to trash HPM's but give my honest opinion. I have heard lot's of speakers over the years, these models brand new in the store, and they sound the same. All the drivers were functioning.
Perhaps they can be improved with a better crossover/filters, or sticking with one tweeter, instead of two.
But in the end, it's the sound that matters, not the gear. And if you like them, I think that's great., and I didn't mean to offend your choice in gear.
Good listening!

None taken, That why this hobbie it some much fun, Different tastes, Lots of things to try, And AK is a great place to express ourselves. I play Hard Rock music, And these speakers fit the bill. I've tried others, CV's, Advent, Sansui. Always sell that stuff, And back in these go. Hey congrats on your upcoming twins. Boy, Are you gonna be busy! Robert

 

[Arkay]

I don't think the controversy over HPM-100s will ever disappear. Different folks, different 'ears'. To me, the very features people see as drawbacks make them great TV speakers. Really, they bring voices and key sounds forward, the bass (especially if supported with suboofes) and highs do a fine job with sound effects, too. I use them for television speakers, and am quite happy with them in that role.

They do lack somewhat in soundstage compared to many other higher-end speakers, even when positioned optimally. I think that is their greatest weakness. They are position-sensitive, though, so I'd suggest anyone play with postiioning before writing them off entirely.

I get a weird effect with my HPM-100s. They are in my living room, at one (less wide) end of the rectangular room. When I am in my home office, which opens off of the side of the living room at the other end, many of the sound effects sound so amazingly real from where I sit within the office that I get startled into thinking someone is actually in the living room. Even after more than a year, I still sometimes have to get up and look, just to convince myself it really is the speakers and no one is there. I don't hear anything remotely like this level of realism when I am actually in the room with the speakers, nor with other speakers. It's either some weird coincidental phenomenon with reflections/interferences, or else a weird psychoacoustic thing. Kind of cool, but a little unnerving at times.

If someone with a different room can get that kind of realism while still retaining the stereo effect of facing two speakers triangularly, then maybe I could see why some people are such fans of these. As they are, I think they are good speakers ... not great speakers, but good ones. For music, I like a more realistic soundstage, but for TV (where the mind fills in much of the placement from the picture anyway), they are wonderful enough,

Just another opinion. Your mileage may vary.