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I Grossly Underpowered my Speakers . . .

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damacman

Resident Psycho
It's true. My speakers are rated at 250W RMS. I connected them to my amplifiers and increased the volume setting to the point at which I was peaking .12wpc. Then, get this, I reduced the volume to the point at which I was peaking .012wpc. Fearing the worst, I was surprised to hear that my tweeters lived.

Audio Myth - It's easier to damage speakers with too little power than too much power.

Now, if that were true, it must be true in all cases. Not some cases. Not cases where alcohol was involved. Not cases where the amplifier in question was tube or solid state. Not cases where the tweeters were soft domes. Not cases where the power was clean, dirty, not washed with warm soapy water for 20 seconds . . . Well, you get the point.

Really, the message that the above Audio Myth is designed to convey is that there is danger when driving speakers to their maximum levels with an amplifier which does not have enough power to drive them correctly. IE - connecting my 250W RMS speakers to a flea market receiver of a mere 20wpc

Unfortunately, as the laws of physics are in fact laws (and not just really good ideas), this is also false. Easily proved / disproved by using the scientific method we all learned in 7th grade physical science.

Hmmm . . .

Fact 1 - Said 20wpc amplifier can make up to twice as much power when driven into hard clipping.
Fact 2 - 40W is still not nearly enough power to destroy (23) tweeters, the sum of which are rated to handle 250W of continuous power at all frequencies within their bandwidth.
Fact 3 - Clipping contains harmonics which can in fact be harmful to tweeters when the net result of such is overpowering.

Herein lies the problem. Lack of understanding of the power rating of one's loudspeakers. For example, you've got a 3-way speaker with 200W printed on the rear. A look into the manual reveals that this 200W speaker can handle 100W continuously and . . . nope . . . not 200W on peaks . . . as 100W RMS and 200W PEAK are merely the same thing stated differently. What? Yep. I promise.

You see, RMS is an abbreviation for Root Mean Square which is a conversion factor designed to provide the equivalent DC energy of a sine wave (AC in nature). Specifically, that conversion factor states that Vrms = Vp * .707

So, 20V into an 8 Ohm load = 50 Watts PEAK - [20^2/8]

And . . .

20V into an 8 Ohm load = 25 Watts RMS [(20*.707)^2/8]

Same thing. Same sine wave with the same 20V Peak. But, who wants 100 Watt speakers when 200 Watt speakers are 2X as good? I mean come on. Marketing 101.

So . . . what this rating doesn't tell you . . . and this is the big one . . . is the actual power handling capability of that pretty little silk dome tweeter that conveys female vocals like no other. In most cases, it's about 10W.

So, here you go with your 20wpc flea market amplifier and clip the **** outta it and all those nasty harmonics as a result of doing so end up being dissipated across the coil of the tweeter. [Of course, no DC got there as the capacitor in series with the tweeter prevents that (also a law) and . . . amplifiers don't make DC when they clip.] Toasted tweeters. Gone to meet their maker.

Well, then isn't it true? Only if the above example meets the criteria spelled out in Fact 3.

Now, let's take some Benny Benassi (Satisfaction is a good track to destroy perfectly good loudspeakers . . . if that's your thang . . . ) and let's play that song at party approved levels on your 200wpc audiophile power amplifier at like half its rated power. Yep, smoked tweeters too. Huh? How is that possible. Simple - those tweeters got overpowered as well. But this time with clean power.

Most enthusiasts believe the following:

1 - Speakers rated at 100W RMS and 200W Peak will handle 100W all day long and 200W on peaks.
2 - Amplifiers create DC when clipping which is harmful to your speakers.
3 - Clipping destroys tweeters.
4 - It's better to use too big of an amplifier versus too small of an amplifier.

Each is patently false with exception of #3 as it pertains to Fact 3 above. In addition, each "theory" has been disproven by science a million times over. However, as the truth is really quite unpopular and does require a bit of understanding to grasp, it's just easier to ignore it and parrot the above endlessly. I mean after all, each does sound plausible.

Myth debunked.
 
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It's not that too little power damages speakers. Driving low-powered amps into clipping attempting to achieve satisfactory volume levels is what damages speakers.

EDIT: Aside from parroting the above endlessly, I've never blown a speaker, or even a driver, by over/under-powering them.
 
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I just listen. The only time I blew a tweeter was when I got a pair of KLH 17 home and tried to get a little volume when the filter cap was toast. After that, the tweeters were toast. I don't do that anymore.

Most of the time, as soon as I start hearing any distortion, I turn the volume down. I just can't tolerate distortion. In fact, the reason I started buying gear when I got back into audio was so I could hear my three favourite songs loud without distortion, something I was never able to do before.

The songs, you ask?

Genesis - Carpet Crawler
Sarah Brightman - Ave Maria
Sarah Brightman - Anytime Anywhere
 
No, thanks, I just ate...

Oh, I get it, I was just being a smart-ass.

Or was me a dumb-ass.....?
 
Never blown a driver even when I tried. Currently use a 300 watt/channel Ncore amp with vintage New Advents in the garage system.

Poor Henry would roll over in his grave with that knowledge. ;)
 
@BilboBaggins: Which version of The Carpet Crawlers? Didn't care for the remix about twenty years ago. I do like the live version on Seconds Out, that was actually the first Genesis song I heard, about 1977. But the original TLLDOB studio version is still the best. But it also requires listening to the rest of the album to give the song a bit of context. In my opinion.
 
Never blown a driver even when I tried. Currently use a 300 watt/channel Ncore amp with vintage New Advents in the garage system.

Poor Henry would roll over in his grave with that knowledge. ;)
Try that Benassi track ... If you dare.
 
So what happens when you try to power your 250 watt speakers to party levels with your 20 WPC amp, and your poor little amp can't take it and a couple output transistors short out putting the rail voltage to your speakers? That would be DC. Will the crossover cap block that? Maybe. Will your woofer like it? No.

Now, same situation with a 200 WPC amp. Plenty loud at the party and not breaking a sweat.

Rob
 
So what happens when you try to power your 250 watt speakers to party levels with your 20 WPC amp, and your poor little amp can't take it and a couple output transistors short out putting the rail voltage to your speakers? That would be DC. Will the crossover cap block that? Maybe. Will your woofer like it? No.

Now, same situation with a 200 WPC amp. Plenty loud at the party and not breaking a sweat.

Rob
Well ... come on man. What happens when you drop the tonearm on the LP with the volume set to 77 on the pre with 1.7kw/ch?

None of that changes the basics.
 
I just listen. The only time I blew a tweeter was when I got a pair of KLH 17 home and tried to get a little volume when the filter cap was toast. After that, the tweeters were toast. I don't do that anymore.

Most of the time, as soon as I start hearing any distortion, I turn the volume down. I just can't tolerate distortion. In fact, the reason I started buying gear when I got back into audio was so I could hear my three favourite songs loud without distortion, something I was never able to do before.

The songs, you ask?

Genesis - Carpet Crawler
Sarah Brightman - Ave Maria
Sarah Brightman - Anytime Anywhere
btw, I'm not sure I've heard any of those songs!
 
I was just about to post that same link. Well done.

Well done? Not at all.

Although this thread has good intentions, it's also full to the brim with mis-information, basic errors and a complete lack of understanding of the methods and modes of driver failure in the face of excessive transient events.

I can destroy the so-called 250W RMS loud-speaker tweeters with a transient event from a 20 watt amplifier, day in, day out. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is living in dreamland.

People tend to forget that an amplifier that clips, doesn't just clip. It often becomes unstable. It becomes an open loop, high powered oscillator. The NFB loop essentially lets go. Yes, a full rail-to-rail oscillator at whatever frequency it settles at- usually ultrasonic. You know, the stuff you can't hear?

And guess what? That amplifier can deliver its FULL RATED POWER into that pissant tweeter at HF. Result? Instantly. Dead. Tweeter.

Not rocket science. Normal music doesn't present significant content at HF frequencies and levels, nor does it generally stimulate such oscillations. Instability as a result of clipping unfortunately does.

I spent a long time doing autopsies of dead speakers to determine whether they were factory flaw warranty claims or just drunk idiots turning the volume up for too long.
 
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