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I have ordered a Pioneer PLX-1000 direct drive turntable.....

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grottyash said:
And they're made in foreign. Oh, hang on, Technics were made in foreign. Is there good foreign and bad foreign, majick47 ?
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I still think he dated a girl named Jennie Hanpin once who dumped him. ;-)

There's often an assumption of "cheap Chinese knock-off" in these discussions, and as I think I've written before, it reminds me of when I bought my first Honda and neighbours were all telling me I was crazy for buying one of those "foreign"cars. At that time, Detroit was putting out absolute junk!

I get that the PLX-1000 isn't what some folks consider to be as good as an SL-1200 but then there are others who've taken the chance and like it. Steve64 for instance has been posting on the Hoffman forum about comparing his stock PLX-1000 to a Kab-ed SL-1200 and he find very little difference between the two. I've read quite a few other comments from folks who actually own one and like it a lot. I was planning on buying one myself by now but some other financial priorities have come up plus putting my noisy old Pro-Ject on a butcher block seems to have helped its motor noise so I'm ok for awhile.

Speaking of belt-drive "audiophile" brands, it would be interesting to see how the Pro-Jects, Regas, VPIs, etc., in the PLX-1000's price range (oh right, VPI doesn't sell any that cheap) would do in that feedback test from the guy's video.
 
If I had to choose who really knew what they were talking about I'd take Kevin/KAB any day of the week over Steve64, no offence intended Steve. Did you say you have a noisy Project? I'll save that for another current thread. Good foreign, Japan/Germany/Switzerland to name a few, and the ringleader of bad foreign, China.
 
majick47 said:
If I had to choose who really knew what they were talking about I'd take Kevin/KAB any day of the week over Steve64, no offence intended Steve. Did you say you have a noisy Project? I'll save that for another current thread. Good foreign, Japan/Germany/Switzerland to name a few, and the ringleader of bad foreign, China.
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Ok so I guess Jennie was Chinese. ;-)

Then again, you said you had your conversation with Kevin at KAB around the time the SL-1200 was discontinued. Most reviewers who actually gave the PLX-1000 a chance and who actually had experience with the other Hanpins have said the PLX-1000 was much better. So Kevin's observations might be much different with the Pioneer. Or maybe not. We may never know. However, I respect those who've actually taken the time to evaluate the turntable a lot higher than those who sit on turntable forums and pass judgment on products because of their country of origin.
 
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I am one who always wants to actually try things out, not have others tell me what things are bad. What I have discovered over many years, is sometimes folks are right, and sometimes they are wrong. The whole business of something being made in China is bad is bunk... But it's ok if some think it is bad....I really don't care :smoke: Really have enjoyed my Vincent SA-31 control amp....Designed in Germany............and made in China....And damn well made:thmbsp:
 
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Pioneer plx 1000

I,m Steve64. Chinese junk. Like your I-phone. Germany, like your Volkswagen? I like my Technics sl 1200 M3D a lot. KAB did the tone arm rewire, the fluid damper, the RCA jacks, the external power supply, the really thick mat, and the clamp. Both units are on a wall shelf, perforated soft rubber mat,felt pads, 1.5 inch maple butcher block. Really good interconnects. Both units are completely satisfying TO ME. People have babies that look just like monkeys to everybody but the parents, so it goes with audio.
 
Steve64 said:
I,m Steve64. Chinese junk. Like your I-phone. Germany, like your Volkswagen? I like my Technics sl 1200 M3D a lot. KAB did the tone arm rewire, the fluid damper, the RCA jacks, the external power supply, the really thick mat, and the clamp. Both units are on a wall shelf, perforated soft rubber mat,felt pads, 1.5 inch maple butcher block. Really good interconnects. Both units are completely satisfying TO ME. People have babies that look just like monkeys to everybody but the parents, so it goes with audio.
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When you compare equivalent gear like Apple phones with Sony, Samsung bor Motorola - they a re in the same price range regardless of where they are made. The same will be with turntables made in similar quantities in Chna or elsewhere. They will cost about the same. Thus if you want hgh quality TT made in China - it will still cost several thousand. Technics was that cheap simply because it was really 30 years old table, with technology and tooling amortized over that time. When Matsushita couldn't more use old productuion facilities it decided stop making it, rather that re-invest and raise price by multiple times to recover that expense. New table equal to sl1200 will be priced at least $3000, or even more. Now you want to pay only $750, so what quality do you expect?
 
The price on future Technics is pure speculation. Plus we don't know if they're going to "bring back" the SL-1200.

Plus what if Technics sells the turntables themselves? That will cut out the middle man and allow them to make more profit per unit and/or cost less for buyers.

I would love to see how much the parts in an SL-1200 cost over the years.
 
for_p1 said:
New table equal to sl1200 will be priced at least $3000, or even more. Now you want to pay only $750, so what quality do you expect?
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Where do these numbers pop up from? October 2010 I contacted a DJ who had two brand new SL1210 Mk-II's for sale. The deal was I buy one for $300.

On the 20th, the Panasonic announcement of killing Technics was made public, just a day before he was suppose to deliver. He called and doubled the price to $600. I still paid and got one of the last items in production. That DJ would have settled for $300 and he would not lose on this deal. For $600 he also made a very steep profit curve.

That was 5 years ago. What economic processes the world had seen since that make that $300 - $600 turntable worth $3000 in 2015?
 
Just to refresh people's memories, or to let new readers to this (getting old) thread catch up, my review was not based on country of origin, but rather on performance and the expectations I had for the machine.

If you do not mind that the antiskate is inadequate, this table is for you.
If you do not mind that the stock headshell will only allow a Stevenson alignment, this table is for you.
If you do not mind that your MI cartridge hums from poor shielding, this table is for you.
If you do not mind that the stated specs and claims of a "more powerful motor" then the Technics SL1200MKII do not live up, then this table is for you.

I did not have to fix my Technics SL1200MKII's antiskate.
I have my Technics SL1200MKII in a Lofgren B alignment with its stock headshell
I can run a Grado Gold with it and not have any hum issues.
I can even brush clean my records with the motor running, with no problems.

The very definition of quality is delivering what the customer expects. The Pioneer did not. I wanted it to, it did not want to.

'ner
 
So the geometry of the PLX arm doesn't match the geometry of the SL-1200? I thought they would have copied it for simplicity, and also the LP120 matches the geometry of the SL-1200 from what I've read.
 
SSaxdude said:
So the geometry of the PLX arm doesn't match the geometry of the SL-1200? I thought they would have copied it for simplicity, and also the LP120 matches the geometry of the SL-1200 from what I've read.
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The geometry is the same but the stock headshell shipped with the Pioneer is apparently shorter and optimized for the Stevenson alignment. Most folks around the net who've bought PLX-1000's have mentioned ditching it for a better headshell. Event he Ortofon SH-4 headshell reportedly provides better alignment potential and the azimuth-adjustable headshells available from LPgear or Turntableneedles.com (among others) provide all kinds of adjustability.

Plus it depends on the cartridge, or rather the distance between a cartridge's stylus tip and mounting holes. I had a similar problem with my Pro-Ject Xpression only in its case, you can't change the headshell as it`s part of the arm. When I used Ortofon 2M Bronze and Black, the slots in the fixed headshell weren't long enough to achieve a Baerwald. Once I moved to an AT-OC9MLII, I was just able to reach Baerwald. Then I switched to a Denon DL301MKII and using its long slots instead of mounting holes I'm able to reach any of the preferred alignments (although I use a customized Lôfgren B to reduce high the end-of-side distortion inherent in a standard Lôfgren B).

If you read through the entire thread, you'll notice some inconsistencies. While the OP is to be commended for taking the time to try out the Pioneer, it would have been nice had he tested it properly (using a test record for antiskate for example), realized that lots of turntables have issues with Grado hum (including some versions of the the SL1200é1210 according to the Grado hum database at vinylengine) and stuck with his story (first his antiskate was inadeqaute, then it was not working at all, now it's back to inadequate; first he was barely able to reach a Baerwald, now it's not at all). Plus he may have had a bad unit since his implication that one cannot use a brush to clean the records due to low torque is just not at all borne out by any other comments from folks who've actually tried the PLX-1000.

Look I have no boat to row in this argument for now as I've put off my turntable purchase for awhile, but I'd love to see some consistency and proper testing in such an effort. If you read around the net for all the comments from folks who've tried the PLX-1000, there are a couple of issues that come up, specifically that in some cases the arm bearings are not quite as tight as they should be but a very slight turn of a screwdriver seems to fix that, that the stock headshell is limited to a Stevenson alignment, and that some folks find the antiskate to be weak (yet others claim theirs is fine). Is it as good as an SL-1200? In some cases, it's better, such as the ability to use your own interconnects, and the anti-resonance treatment inside the tonearm. If Pioneer had kept the Technics SL-1200 in production and not raised its list price any further than the May 2010 increase to $899, it would sell for just under $1000 now and we wouldn`t be having this discussion. They didn't and it's highly probably the new Technics turntable will be aimed at a super high end market like the other new Technics components, so if you want a new, warrantied turntable with direct drive, on-the-fly VTA and removable headshell, the PLX-1000 is most likely the best candidate under $1000. I recently asked the dealer where I bought my Pro-Ject to give me the best option he carries with on-the-fly VTA and removable headshell (I didn`t bother asking for direct drive since he doesn't carry anything non-belt). It was an Avid Ingenium with SME M2-9 for a bit over $2100 US. Plus in researching the M2-9, I discovered that not only is the headshell a custom design that's about $200 each, it has fixed mounting holes so if you like to customize alignments as I do, you`re out of luck! Plus there was that Fremer review of the Avid in which he talked about some speed issues.

Sometimes digital seems so much easier! I just wish it sounded as good and was as much fun as vinyl!
 
OK forget about where the PLX-1000 and the SL-1200MK2 were mfg, both could of been made on Mars. Since the majority of AK members probably live in the US and Canada my argument has been with $700 in your pocket you shouldn't have much of a problem finding a near mint SL-1200Mk2. It isn't like they all evaporated as of the 2010 announcement to cease production. No need to adjust bearings, change out the headshell or anything else. As for a warranty I doubt few ever had to make use of a warranty with a SL-1200 and if you can't evaluate the condition of a turntable you shouldn't be buying any turntable.
 
You can put the Technics is any alignment you want. We all know its stock alignment tool puts it into a Stevenson. I don't want it in a Stevenson.

Garven, I await your personal review with much anticipation........
 
grottyash said:
The SL1200 uses a Stevenson alignment.
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Yes, the 52mm shortcut is intended to achieve Stevenson and, as it happens, there are some cartridges out there which can't be set to Baerwald on that arm without some degree of skew.

As has also been said, there are quite a few turntables out there which have trouble with Grados so, honestly, I think the Pioneer should get a big benefit of the doubt on that score, especially since Wayner would now have it that, on the PLX-1000, "your MI cartridge hums from poor shielding". That's not accurate and it's not fair, especially since the "poor shielding" is a fault of the Grados.

John
 
I've already explained my situation. That doesn't mean I can't comment on what I read. After all, we have several folks commenting on its quality who've never heard it or taken the time to read comments around the net from those who have. I'm just another among that crowd (except I'm not a Hanpinophobe ;-).
 
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