I peeked up the skirt of a GT-750, and wasn't aroused!

[theophile]

I apologise if I've 'trod on your toes' with my assessment of the GT siblings,my intent was to leave future purchasers in the GT series with no doubt as to the choices that ripple through the range.Surface resemblances and underlying divergences need to be examined,evaluated and elucidated in order that clarity about the Series can be archived/accessed on the international exchange medium the 'net.

So little information exists about the GT Series on the net(in English)that it's important that there is no confusion about the different models,if we are really to do justice to what Yamaha achieved,and to do justice by future prospective purchasers who are seeking dependable information upon which they can draw dependable conclusions.

If there's any consolation it would have to be said that Yamaha still had to consider that the 1000/750 were part of the GT series.Thus to design them too far down the quality ladder would only undermine the prestige of their flagship.So it would be reasonable to speculate that the 1000/750 were decent units in their own right and at their price point.

By all means enjoy your 750. :yes:

 

[voltcontrol]

BUT, in a head-to-head comparison with the GT-2000, there just is IS NO COMPARISON.

Well, you did do a lot of it.

Nice write up as usual.

 

[davidro]

I apologise if I've 'trod on your toes' with my assessment of the GT siblings,my intent was to leave future purchasers in the GT series with no doubt as to the choices that ripple through the range.Surface resemblances and underlying divergences need to be examined,evaluated and elucidated in order that clarity about the Series can be archived/accessed on the international exchange medium the 'net.

So little information exists about the GT Series on the net(in English)that it's important that there is no confusion about the different models,if we are really to do justice to what Yamaha achieved,and to do justice by future prospective purchasers who are seeking dependable information upon which they can draw dependable conclusions.

If there's any consolation it would have to be said that Yamaha still had to consider that the 1000/750 were part of the GT series.Thus to design them too far down the quality ladder would only undermine the prestige of their flagship.So it would be reasonable to speculate that the 1000/750 were decent units in their own right and at their price point.

By all means enjoy your 750. :yes:

No worries. I'm not trying to claim the 1000/750s are pretty much as good as the 2000/2000x (not that dumb). I ruled out the 2000 right from the beginning of my plan as it was plainly out of my budget. But what attracted me was, at the end of the day, 750 is a little sibling of the 2000.

There's pretty good reason why you'd have to pay more especially when it comes to those Japanese DD decks that have to compete with their Western counterparts. In fact even Japanese audiophiles themselves have this tendency to favour the European gears over their native gears which adds to your previous observation.

If I had the necessary fund of course my choice would have been the 2000. That goes without saying. But I still consider the 750 is an awesome deck whose performance exceeds that of other decks which can be bought even for some more money nowadays, especially here in Aussie. I feel sorry for my 750 as its peripherals do not really do it justice - not like your 2000 with Simaudio stage and other awesome gears

My view is that potential buyers shouldn't be discouraged from getting a GT even if their budget is unable to achieve a 2000. 'No 2000? What's the point?' - that's just not it. Sure of course you want the top of the ladder much like yourself who's been 'watching' the 2000x for a while (actually a head-on test between 2000 and 2000x would be interesting). But what if you can't afford it?

When your budget was able to achieve the 2000 you evidently went for it - the same scenario with me. I feel both you and Arkay somehow made it sound like (I know you guys did a fair warning) a GT deck below 2000 by default is not worth getting.

My point is, much like 2000 outperforms other decks that can be bought for the same price or a bit more, 750 is doing pretty much the same stuff being another GT. Of course they're different on an A/B test, as you pay much more for the 2000. But if you really care about the potential buyers you'd have to consider other factors. Not all potential buyers may afford 2000.

 

[theophile]

No worries. I'm not trying to claim the 1000/750s are pretty much as good as the 2000/2000x (not that dumb). I ruled out the 2000 right from the beginning of my plan as it was plainly out of my budget. But what attracted me was, at the end of the day, 750 is a little sibling of the 2000.

There's pretty good reason why you'd have to pay more especially when it comes to those Japanese DD decks that have to compete with their Western counterparts. In fact even Japanese audiophiles themselves have this tendency to favour the European gears over their native gears which adds to your previous observation.

If I had the necessary fund of course my choice would have been the 2000. That goes without saying. But I still consider the 750 is an awesome deck whose performance exceeds that of other decks which can be bought even for some more money nowadays, especially here in Aussie. I feel sorry for my 750 as its peripherals do not really do it justice - not like your 2000 with Simaudio stage and other awesome gears

My view is that potential buyers shouldn't be discouraged from getting a GT even if their budget is unable to achieve a 2000. 'No 2000? What's the point?' - that's just not it. Sure of course you want the top of the ladder much like yourself who's been 'watching' the 2000x for a while (actually a head-on test between 2000 and 2000x would be interesting). But what if you can't afford it?

When your budget was able to achieve the 2000 you evidently went for it - the same scenario with me. I feel both you and Arkay somehow made it sound like (I know you guys did a fair warning) a GT deck below 2000 by default is not worth getting.

My point is, much like 2000 outperforms other decks that can be bought for the same price or a bit more, 750 is doing pretty much the same stuff being another GT. Of course they're different on an A/B test, as you pay much more for the 2000. But if you really care about the potential buyers you'd have to consider other factors. Not all potential buyers may afford 2000.

Mate,I'll concede that I don't think that the 1000/750 should be the GTs of choice due to their inability to utilise the best of the upgrade options,using that criterion alone.Not because the 2000s are more expensive nor is my motivation along the lines of rubbing non-yamaha GT 2000 owners' noses in it.I think that the potential of the options is the real distinguishing feature of the GT Series.The are parallels with other brands in that respect of course.Yamaha weren't alone in providing options for their flagships,and they probably looked to Technics options for the SP-10 when they were considering their design options.Technics had enhanced the deservedly high reputation of their DD TTs by providing exotic base materials,arm options etc.

I've heard too many sub-ordinary demonstrations of very pricey systems over the years(and conversely have fallen in love with the sound of some modest,far from TOTL systems over the years)to be bedazzled by 'price sticker worship' and to be guilty of 'budget bashing'.I put great stock on system interaction and synergy(qualities which apply at every pricepoint),because experience has demonstrated to me that the 'how' to combine components is as important as 'which' component.The real success in hi-fi is assembling a balanced and satisfying system at whichever level of expenditure that one can afford.If one has achieved that,one has achieved a result that doesn't automatically follow the outlay of obscene amounts of money.

Like I said(sincerely);enjoy your 750. :yes:

 

[thedelihaus]

Interesting that the 750 came after the 1000, as the last article I read said the 1000 was a later model born from the 750.

However, I have no idea where that author culled his facts, so I cannot claim he was correct- only that was what he was claiming.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing what you know on these decks- I find the whole thing pretty interesting.

 

[Pio1980]

I saw a close-up pic of the arm base on a GT-2000 that appeared to have exhibited die cast alloy rot with cracking and expansion. Is this possible or likely an artifact of the photo? 'Crapalloy disease' has been a concern of mine with good vintage playback gear, having run into it in vintage radios, cars, and more recently, notably the Roberts/Akai R2R deck control castings as there is no satisfactory fix outside of replacement with an exact replica.
Perhaps this needs it's own topic thread.

 

[4dryhme]

Anyhow, thanks for sharing what you know on these decks- I find the whole thing pretty interesting.

Hearty seconded.

 

[Pio1980]

I saw a close-up pic of the arm base on a GT-2000 that appeared to have exhibited die cast alloy rot with cracking and expansion. Is this possible or likely an artifact of the photo? 'Crapalloy disease' has been a concern of mine with good vintage playback gear, having run into it in vintage radios, cars, and more recently, notably the Roberts/Akai R2R deck control castings as there is no satisfactory fix outside of replacement with an exact replica.
Perhaps this needs it's own topic thread.

http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWGT-2000x/G1/E/0-10/C07-33772-03993-00/

The arm appears on the verge of being useless junk if not already there. Mebbe the spinner bit is still OK.

 

[davidro]

http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWGT-2000x/G1/E/0-10/C07-33772-03993-00/

The arm appears on the verge of being useless junk if not already there. Mebbe the spinner bit is still OK.

That actually does look pretty bad :sigh:

 

[theophile]

http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWGT-2000x/G1/E/0-10/C07-33772-03993-00/

The arm appears on the verge of being useless junk if not already there. Mebbe the spinner bit is still OK.

I'll just say that the arm on my 2000 arrived similar to the one posted in the link.It still works.There may be longer term problems that may as yet not have arisen,but for the here and now,no appreciable inability to perform the functions it was designed to.

OH yeah.The combination of GT 2000 and useless junk arm outperforms many other decks with arms without that flaw.

 

[Pio1980]

The arm bearings will probably need re-adjusting in time at the least. It will eventually disintregrate and crumble. Zinc alloyed diecast is prone to this if something doesn't go right with the mixing and casting process. Only other examples I've seen from Japan so far were the forementioned function cams in Roberts/Akai branded R2Rs.

 

[theophile]

The arm bearings will probably need re-adjusting in time at the least. It will eventually disintregrate and crumble. Zinc alloyed diecast is prone to this if something doesn't go right with the mixing and casting process. Only other examples I've seen from Japan so far were the forementioned function cams in Roberts/Akai branded R2Rs.

The arm bearings were the only eventual(and terminal) problem that I could foresee also.

I guessing that whatever amount of corrosion may be currently present in the arm can't be at the point of interference with designated function.

My long-term goal is to put a better arm on it(Trans-Fi Terminator T3 Pro ideally).Thus the problem really doesn't have a gravitas for me that it should for one who wants to keep the deck in stock form.You should be commended for illustrating the potential(and actual)flaw in the arm.Information which sheds light is always welcome.

 

[Pio1980]

Believe me that I have no schadenfreude pointing this out, I have my own emotional investments in similar gear. Assuming the problem doesn't extend to the motor unit, another arm is a good alternative as there are innumerable worthy choices. Good luck with the stocker and when appropriate, the Trans-Fi looks good.

 

[lmfree]

I peeked up the skirt of a GT-750, and wasn't aroused!

Can you tell me if any of the parts of the 750/1000 are interchangeable with the 2000 series. What I have in mind is the small incidental parts such as the rubber platter mat, anti-skate arm and weight, the wing nut from the tonearm, dust cover, etc.
I have some parts on my 2000's that are less than perfect or missing and I thought about buying a cheaper 750 and canabalizing it to get the necessary parts.

 

[thedelihaus]

Can you tell me if any of the parts of the 750/1000 are interchangeable with the 2000 series. What I have in mind is the small incidental parts such as the rubber platter mat, anti-skate arm and weight, the wing nut from the tonearm, dust cover, etc.
I have some parts on my 2000's that are less than perfect or missing and I thought about buying a cheaper 750 and canabalizing it to get the necessary parts.

What about buying a different arm for it?

I'm not by any means saying the stock arm is bad- far from it.

But my thoughts are money spent on a parts 750 could also be used towards a replacement arm of a more premium quality.

Just thinking out loud here.:scratch2:

 

[lmfree]

The arm itself is not bad, just miscellaneous parts. Mostly trinket items and not all arm parts.

 

[Pio1980]

For us relatively impoverished obesrvers, what is the real going price range for these exotics (750,1000, 2000, 2000X, 2000L)? I assume the last 3 represent a servicable used car more or less..

 

[lmfree]

Best source I know for pricing is HiFiDo but as some have said the prices may be higher than other places. But even if they are high they can't be too high because they usually aren't available (usually spoken for before they are listed) for purchase when they are listed; hence the NEGO which loosley translates to it is being offered to the waiting list people first. The ones that do appear are the "Plain Jane" 2000's with no auto lift at around $1000US.

By the way the other part I was wondering if was interchangeable was the feet from a 750 and 2000. My point being with all the questions is if I can pick up a 750 which appear for about $400 and these parts are interchangable I could make 4 GT-2000's complete/original with one sacrificial GT-750

 

[directdriver]

Arkay: "What stared me in the face was a simple hollow box of 1" MDF, with a few smaller strips/blocks reinforcing the construction joints. A barely updated version of all those old "hollow box" plinths from the 60s and 70s (before plastic hollow boxes took over in the 80s ). It is NOT built up from horizontal laminated layers of MDF (as is the GT-2000 plinth) at all. There is no steady dissipation of vibration through a massive block here. There is not constrained-layer-damping effect from thin glue joints. It's just a BOX made from the same stuff, with a single layer across the top, strips around the sides, and a thin pressboard-like bottom plate! What was worse was what was in it... a really PUNY looking transformer, even for just 100V, driving just a couple of relatively small and relatively simple circuit boards...."

There's no shame in small transformer because the motor simply does not require as much power. I believe the motor in the 750 is a coreless motor which tends to be low torque and low power. Many Japanese manufacturers started shifting in using coreless motor in the late 70's. I know some Yamaha models use JVC motors such as the PX2 and PX3 linear tracking tables. The motor in the 750 is similar to the JVC QL-Y66F and QL-A70, both uses a extra large diameter platter. I don't see anything wrong with a small circuit board as long as it gets the job done. Modern direct drive turntables like the Brinkmann Bardo uses a small circuit board too. Sometimes a smaller circuit board also means less servo and simply let platter run on its own inertia, a less iron grip control of its rotation and can result in a much smoother sound.

The bottomline is that the 750 may not look as impressive as the 2000 but it should still hold its own, at least in my experience with direct drive turntables. I have own multiple units of Technics SP10Mk2 and it certainly has impressive looking motor, power supply, and electronics, but I sold them all and living happily with the more modest looking JVC QL-Y66F and Kenwood KD-770D. I even prefer the smaller sibling Technics SP15 over the SP10mk2 for its smoother sound. Bigger is not always better.

Here are some pictures of the underbelly of the 750 I found on the internet.

Before, in stock form.

After, modded with reinforcement.

-------------------------------------------------------

The underbelly of JVC QL-A70

Back to Yamaha GT-750 again.

.
.

 

[BrocLuno]

THe GT750 and GT1000 are very good TT's - simple is not bad if done right. The Piano maker does know what they are doing