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The Apollo. I have kept all three but I like the Apollo most.
Ideal CD player for vintage two-channel audio
- Thread starter Woodwind
- Start date
The Apollo. I have kept all three but I like the Apollo most.
Have a new Sony BluRay player, if using it for music you'll definitely need an outboard DAC. This is the reason I Have a Sony DVP NS900V for music playback sitting right next to the BluRay player in lieu of a DAC.
Does it have a built in DAC? Not famiar with your pre.
P 5
Features Specs Reviews Support
Features Specs Reviews Support
- Burr-Brown PCM1798 DAC with USB, Optical and Coax inputs
- Coax and optical accept all sampling rates up to 192 kHz, 24-bit
- USB accepts up to 96 kHz, 24-bit
- Incoming jitter on all three digital inputs is significally attenuated with an effective clock recovery system
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
I picked up a Sony DVP-S7700 a good while back... A cool unit to own
I use it with an external DAC
Could anyone (Robert perhaps), clarify a point about SACD audio outputs. Having followed the advice of some and bought a Sony NS 900V, I see that it does not have HDMI output sockets. It has digital output - both co-ax and optical, as well as RCA analogue and 5.1 audio. My question is, therefore, whether or how one gets that superior audio output other than via the Sony built-in DAC? Can one link this machine to a DAC for SACD audio - or is the lack of HDMI interface going to be a major fly in the ointment?
In other words, assuming that digital outputs are banned due to copyright matters, does the RCA output allow SACD audio to be sent to an external DAC?
In other words, assuming that digital outputs are banned due to copyright matters, does the RCA output allow SACD audio to be sent to an external DAC?
Shrugg
Active Member
Currently using one with a Parasound DAC 1600 as my main cd player. By far, the best sound I have ever had from CD. They have great quality for the price, and are often one of the cheapest cd players available. I bought mine from a pawn shop for $10.
robert_kc
Super Member
See page 89 and 90 of the owner's manual (available on-line from Sony). My interpretation of what it says (I can't cut and paste from the manual):
- SACD audio signals are not output via the digital connections.
- When surround-sound is selected, the bit rate and density is downgraded to "48kHz/16bit" when sent to the digital output (even if it's supposed to be 96kHz/24bit).
robert_kc
Super Member
P.S.
If you connect a stand-alone DAC to the Sony DVP-NS900V player, how many of the following formats will you be able to play, with no compromise in audio quality?
If I were in the market for a universal player today, I'd look for a used Oppo. Or, if I only needed stereo (i.e., not surround sound), and I wanted to use a traditional hi-fi amp (i.e., no HDMI interface), I'd consider the Sony UBP-X1100ES ($600 new), or the earlier model UBP-X1000ES ($280 for a unit "refurbished by the manufacturer"). However - I have no experience with the Sony players - I'm an Oppo user.
If you connect a stand-alone DAC to the Sony DVP-NS900V player, how many of the following formats will you be able to play, with no compromise in audio quality?
- Downloaded hi-res PCM (e.g., 24bit/192kHz or 24bit/96kHz FLAC from HDTracks.com, or prestomusic.com/classical/formats/download, etc.)?
- Downloaded hi-res DSD (e.g., nativedsd.com, or acousticsounds.com/superhirez, etc.)?
- CD?
- DVD (e.g., concert videos)?
- DVD-Audio (i.e., older better-than-CD-quality audio recordings)?
- SACD (newer hi-res recordings)?
- Pure Audio Blu-ray (i.e., newer hi-res audio-only disc – i.e., no video)?
- Blu-ray (e.g., concert videos)?
- Ultra HD Blu-ray (e.g., state-of-the-art concert videos)?
If I were in the market for a universal player today, I'd look for a used Oppo. Or, if I only needed stereo (i.e., not surround sound), and I wanted to use a traditional hi-fi amp (i.e., no HDMI interface), I'd consider the Sony UBP-X1100ES ($600 new), or the earlier model UBP-X1000ES ($280 for a unit "refurbished by the manufacturer"). However - I have no experience with the Sony players - I'm an Oppo user.
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robert_kc
Super Member
P.P.P.S.
Can a Sony DVP-NS900V player with a stand-alone DAC deliver this, in stunning hi-res surround sound, and high-definition video (vs. the mediocre YouTube quality)?
And while these recordings are a little older and not quite state-of-the art in terms of video quality, nonetheless IMO they far surpass the experience provided by CDs:
Can a Sony DVP-NS900V player with a stand-alone DAC deliver this, in stunning hi-res surround sound, and high-definition video (vs. the mediocre YouTube quality)?
And while these recordings are a little older and not quite state-of-the art in terms of video quality, nonetheless IMO they far surpass the experience provided by CDs:
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Just to confirm, you are saying the Sony 900V DAC is so good that you are using it for that purpose with the Bluray player?
In answer to your question about whether the Sony 900 can deliver the sort of experience you mention - you are right, a video is a very different sort of experience. We sometimes go and see the Simulcast showings at local cinemas of major London or New York concerts and ballets and love them. My main interest is in classical music and classic pop - (Genesis, Queen, Pink Floyd, Super tramp etc etc) and I am transported by a really good recording to another level of Zen! It allows me to paint for hours and I come out of that space having achieved so many great things (at least I think so....) I simply cannot afford the time to sit in front of a superb video; I think the expression is Time Vampires. I need to work at the same time.
But as my 30-year old son said the other day having been made to sit and listen to a good recording coming out of a Revox 200-series stack and IMF TLS 80 Mk 2 speakers, listening to superb music from a really hi-quality HiFi is like sitting down to a fine meal. You cannot get up till the end and then you feel you have done something really worthwhile. Interesting.
No, I'm saying the BluRay player sucks so bad that it only gets used for its WiFi ability lol, or an occasional BluRay movie. The older Sony is only used as a stand alone CD/SACD player.
Robert,
This might be a bit off-thread, but I am astonished to have to admit that I do not know any of Mendelssohn's piano music. It was quite a shock as I learned the violin when I was young, was a member of the classical music club and love the piano. In addition, the Midsummer Night's Dream is one of my all-time favourites which I have been listening to since I was about 12 years old. It is a blank that I cannot really explain!
Apart from the advice about the CD player - I also have to thank you for introducing me to Mendelssohn's piano compositions, having listened to the recording you linked in your earlier post. I will be ordering a Hyperion CD today with all of his piano works.
This might be a bit off-thread, but I am astonished to have to admit that I do not know any of Mendelssohn's piano music. It was quite a shock as I learned the violin when I was young, was a member of the classical music club and love the piano. In addition, the Midsummer Night's Dream is one of my all-time favourites which I have been listening to since I was about 12 years old. It is a blank that I cannot really explain!
Apart from the advice about the CD player - I also have to thank you for introducing me to Mendelssohn's piano compositions, having listened to the recording you linked in your earlier post. I will be ordering a Hyperion CD today with all of his piano works.
robert_kc
Super Member
It’s your thread – so you can talk about anything you want!
I’m glad you found some new (to you) music that you like.
There are some performers that I like to watch perform, in addition to hearing them. This past spring, I saw Khatia Buniatishvili perform live, and I got to briefly meet her after the performance (along with about 100 other fans). Thus far, Khatia only has one Blu-ray disc on the market; I’ll buy every one she releases in the future. I’ve seen Anna Netrebko perform live – and I’d much rather see and hear her than just listen. The same is true for me with many other performers, including some conductors that I enjoy watching. And, as I mentioned earlier, some classical concert halls (particularly historic halls in Europe) are beautiful, and Blu-ray videos enable me to see venues that I’ll never be able to visit.
I’m constantly looking for new music that I like, and I occasionally find something. Music is deeply personal – it’s difficult to predict what someone else might like. I did not grow up listening to classical, and I don’t regard myself as an expert. I participate in a discussion forum for classical music, and I’ve read threads titled something like “The most moving piece of music” – and I’m surprised by the variety of opinions in the posts.
Recognizing that people have different tastes, FWIW one of the sub-genres of music I discovered a few years ago is music composed for the Russian Orthodox Church. Late at night when I can’t sleep, the following disc is what I listen to. I think this is some of the most beautiful music ever written. (And this SACD has excellent audio quality, featuring surround-sound and stereo audio tracks.)
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robert_kc
Super Member
Several years ago, when I got one of my first Oppo universal players (IIRC it was my BDP-95) I did side-by-side comparisons with several CD players, because I own a lot of CDs, and I love classical music, and I wanted the best audio quality. All of the CD players I owned at that time had received good reviews: an NAD unit that supported HDCD, a Sony ES series unit, and a Toshiba unit that advertised a 24bit/192kHz DAC (which does NOT mean that it can play 24bit/192kHz files). The Oppo BDP-95 universal player (which was the higher-priced Oppo unit with “audiophile-grade” DACs and analog circuitry, vs. the BDP-93) and the CD players all sounded slightly different when playing CDs. IMO the CD players did NOT sound better than the Oppo BDP-95 when playing CDs. (Otherwise I would have kept all of the CD players.)
I now have one CD player left - the Toshiba player is in my bedroom mono system. I own two Oppo UDP-205 (which is the higher-priced Oppo universal player with “audiophile-grade” DACs and analog circuitry, vs. the UDP-203), plus a BDP-105 (which was the higher-priced Oppo unit with “audiophile-grade” DACs and analog circuitry, vs. the BDP-103), BDP-95 (which was the higher-priced Oppo unit with “audiophile-grade” DACs and analog circuitry, vs. the BDP-93), and two DV-980H (older SACD/CD player).
Given that my Oppo UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95 have built-in “audiophile-grade” multi-channel DACS (supporting 7.1, 5.1, 2.1, and stereo), I see no need for an external DAC. Moreover, as discussed in an earlier post, stand-alone DACs that will play all hi-res formats (including SACD and DTS-HD MA 5.1) with uncompromised quality in 5.1 format are rare. My understanding is this would require an HDMI multi-channel DAC. (Unless – possibly – if all files are copied to NAS, and a “network streamer” is used. I’m not an expert on this configuration. My understanding is that copying all disc types (including SACD and Blu-ray) is not a simple undertaking.)
I don’t use an AVR, or multi-channel pre-amp/pre-processor. I connect vintage tube amps directly to my Oppo players’ analog audio output connections. (In some cases, I connect integrated amps directly to the Oppo, in some cases I connect power amps directly to the Oppo.) I have a 4.2 system, two 2.1 systems, a 2.0 system, and a mono system.
IMO modern SACDs (not re-mastered decades-old recordings) generally sound better than CDs. And I enjoy the surround-sound.
IMO Blu-ray audio/video recordings featuring surround-sound are often MUCH more enjoyable than CDs – featuring better audio quality, plus video.
For the past few years, I have only rarely bought a CD. I greatly prefer Blu-ray. On rare occasion I’ll buy a DVD if Blu-ray isn’t available – such as the Yuja Wang performance referenced above, and the box set from the Berlin Philharmonic referenced above. Only if a Blu-ray or DVD audio/video recording isn’t available for a composition, I’ll buy an SACD or Pure Audio Blu-ray disc that features surround-sound. If a surround-sound recording isn’t available for a composition I’m interested in, I’ll buy a 24bit/192kHz (or 24/96) stereo download from HDTracks. A CD (16bit/44.1kHz) is my last choice.
For classical music, there are typically many choices for recorded performances of a composition, usually including modern performances that were recorded, mastered, and delivered in hi-res. Some people favor historically significant performances from decades ago – whereas I often can find a contemporary conductor and orchestra that I like. Because I listen to modern recordings, I enjoy excellent audio quality, and in some cases excellent video quality. Of course, there are some older recordings that I can enjoy - as long as the audio quality isn’t unbearable – but I prefer top-quality audio. (For example, I’ll listen to Maria Callas once in a while, but there’s no denying that her 1950s era recordings, even after being remastered and delivered as a “hi-res” download, don’t have very good audio quality.)
Considering the wealth of classical recordings available in modern hi-res formats (audio/video, and audio-only), I can’t imagine why a classical music lover would buy a player that plays only CDs.
I recognize that different people like different music. Perhaps a “CD only player” (or a CD/SACD player that cannot play the SACD layer due to use of an external DAC) is suitable for someone who only listens to decades-old recordings, or only listens to genres for which hi-res recordings aren’t available. To each their own.
I’m not saying that good quality recordings on CD sound bad, I’m just saying that state-of-the-art Blu-ray is capable of delivering a significantly more enjoyable experience – IME/IMO.
Bottom line, IME/IMO the “Ideal CD player for vintage two-channel audio” is a universal player that:
I now have one CD player left - the Toshiba player is in my bedroom mono system. I own two Oppo UDP-205 (which is the higher-priced Oppo universal player with “audiophile-grade” DACs and analog circuitry, vs. the UDP-203), plus a BDP-105 (which was the higher-priced Oppo unit with “audiophile-grade” DACs and analog circuitry, vs. the BDP-103), BDP-95 (which was the higher-priced Oppo unit with “audiophile-grade” DACs and analog circuitry, vs. the BDP-93), and two DV-980H (older SACD/CD player).
Given that my Oppo UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95 have built-in “audiophile-grade” multi-channel DACS (supporting 7.1, 5.1, 2.1, and stereo), I see no need for an external DAC. Moreover, as discussed in an earlier post, stand-alone DACs that will play all hi-res formats (including SACD and DTS-HD MA 5.1) with uncompromised quality in 5.1 format are rare. My understanding is this would require an HDMI multi-channel DAC. (Unless – possibly – if all files are copied to NAS, and a “network streamer” is used. I’m not an expert on this configuration. My understanding is that copying all disc types (including SACD and Blu-ray) is not a simple undertaking.)
I don’t use an AVR, or multi-channel pre-amp/pre-processor. I connect vintage tube amps directly to my Oppo players’ analog audio output connections. (In some cases, I connect integrated amps directly to the Oppo, in some cases I connect power amps directly to the Oppo.) I have a 4.2 system, two 2.1 systems, a 2.0 system, and a mono system.
IMO modern SACDs (not re-mastered decades-old recordings) generally sound better than CDs. And I enjoy the surround-sound.
IMO Blu-ray audio/video recordings featuring surround-sound are often MUCH more enjoyable than CDs – featuring better audio quality, plus video.
For the past few years, I have only rarely bought a CD. I greatly prefer Blu-ray. On rare occasion I’ll buy a DVD if Blu-ray isn’t available – such as the Yuja Wang performance referenced above, and the box set from the Berlin Philharmonic referenced above. Only if a Blu-ray or DVD audio/video recording isn’t available for a composition, I’ll buy an SACD or Pure Audio Blu-ray disc that features surround-sound. If a surround-sound recording isn’t available for a composition I’m interested in, I’ll buy a 24bit/192kHz (or 24/96) stereo download from HDTracks. A CD (16bit/44.1kHz) is my last choice.
For classical music, there are typically many choices for recorded performances of a composition, usually including modern performances that were recorded, mastered, and delivered in hi-res. Some people favor historically significant performances from decades ago – whereas I often can find a contemporary conductor and orchestra that I like. Because I listen to modern recordings, I enjoy excellent audio quality, and in some cases excellent video quality. Of course, there are some older recordings that I can enjoy - as long as the audio quality isn’t unbearable – but I prefer top-quality audio. (For example, I’ll listen to Maria Callas once in a while, but there’s no denying that her 1950s era recordings, even after being remastered and delivered as a “hi-res” download, don’t have very good audio quality.)
Considering the wealth of classical recordings available in modern hi-res formats (audio/video, and audio-only), I can’t imagine why a classical music lover would buy a player that plays only CDs.
I recognize that different people like different music. Perhaps a “CD only player” (or a CD/SACD player that cannot play the SACD layer due to use of an external DAC) is suitable for someone who only listens to decades-old recordings, or only listens to genres for which hi-res recordings aren’t available. To each their own.
I’m not saying that good quality recordings on CD sound bad, I’m just saying that state-of-the-art Blu-ray is capable of delivering a significantly more enjoyable experience – IME/IMO.
Bottom line, IME/IMO the “Ideal CD player for vintage two-channel audio” is a universal player that:
- Plays all types of digital recordings that are relevant for the music you like, via internal DACs, and delivers excellent audio and video quality, and
- Provides enhancements to vintage amps such as remote volume control, useful information displayed on an HDTV, support for a subwoofer, and provides an upgrade path for surround-sound.
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I have the Sony player and have ordered some SACD discs. For the time being I am playing some new, high quality CDs though the Revox 250 amp, using the Revox 226 CD player and the Sony for comparison; the speakers are IMF TLS 80 Mk2s. Then I am going to do the same with the Cambridge CD player and Sony 900, but this time coupled to a Luxman pre-amp and my Quad 405-2 power amp , with Wharfedale Evolution 40 speakers. One of the CDs is a set of Mendelssohn Piano concertos as recommended by Robert. The others will be modern classics such as Pink Floyd.
Will report back as soon as I think I can either discern a difference or have to admit there is none. I hope the SACDs arrive soon so I can repeat the exercise this side of Christmas! In all of this I am conscious that many have said that one might have to spend quite a lot of money on a really good player before getting a noticeably improved sound. I am not about to do that, to be honest as I have too many other commitments.
Or it might just be that if one already has reasonably decent, quite high-end vintage equipment, the returns on investment are already tailing off and that it would take a silly amount of cash to make a genuinely discernible difference.
Will report back as soon as I think I can either discern a difference or have to admit there is none. I hope the SACDs arrive soon so I can repeat the exercise this side of Christmas! In all of this I am conscious that many have said that one might have to spend quite a lot of money on a really good player before getting a noticeably improved sound. I am not about to do that, to be honest as I have too many other commitments.
Or it might just be that if one already has reasonably decent, quite high-end vintage equipment, the returns on investment are already tailing off and that it would take a silly amount of cash to make a genuinely discernible difference.