I'm clueless and want to buy some good gear, help?

[Throsh]

How do you play your vinyl/LP records now?

I did all the time until I started researching audio equipment and realized I would likely damage my records by playing them on the rubbish turntable I had. I'll be playing them every day when I get my new turntable for sure.

 

[goldleaf]

If you don't currently own a turntable, the situation gets more complicated. It's hard to get all this equipment and the TT for a few hundred pounds. I'll let the vinyl experts chime in, but at the very least you'll need a TT, cartridge+needle, and some way to amplify the cartridge up to the level of the headphone amp. Maybe others can chime in on how to help you there.

You are definitely a candidate for becoming friendly with your local vintage audio stores :yes:

 

[Throsh]

If you don't currently own a turntable, the situation gets more complicated. It's hard to get all this equipment and the TT for a few hundred pounds. I'll let the vinyl experts chime in, but at the very least you'll need a TT, cartridge+needle, and some way to amplify the cartridge up to the level of the headphone amp. Maybe others can chime in on how to help you there.

You are definitely a candidate for becoming friendly with your local vintage audio stores :yes:

The turntable isn't included in the prices I've quoted in this thread, I have the money aside for that.

 

[Throsh]

If you don't currently own a turntable, the situation gets more complicated. It's hard to get all this equipment and the TT for a few hundred pounds. I'll let the vinyl experts chime in, but at the very least you'll need a TT, cartridge+needle, and some way to amplify the cartridge up to the level of the headphone amp. Maybe others can chime in on how to help you there.

You are definitely a candidate for becoming friendly with your local vintage audio stores :yes:

What do you mean by "some way to amplify the cartridge up to the level of the headphone amp"? boy, it gets more complicated by the minute

 

[gongli]

The technics 1200 is a good TT, as is Rega (1 and 2) and Project ones.

I am using this one, and it sounds pretty good to me - not great but not bad at all:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-UD-M3...ion_Compact_Shelf_Stereos&hash=item2c6a344934

That takes care of CD player and headphone amp.

To connect the turntable, you need a phono preamp like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAD-PHONO-P..._Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item20cdea43fb

Shure makes good cartridges like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-H...id=1354732052&sr=1-1&keywords=shure+cartridge

Are you sure you don't want to add small bookshelf loud speakers to the Denon, 'coz as you know, headphone listening is not good for our ears - especially if you listen loud, like the music you like deserves.

Your headphones are already good - I have the exact ones, and I am satisfied with them. If I were you, I would emphasize other gears with the money saved.

 

[Throsh]

The technics 1200 is a good TT, as is Rega (1 and 2) and Project ones.

I am using this one, and it sounds pretty good to me - not great but not bad at all:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-UD-M3...ion_Compact_Shelf_Stereos&hash=item2c6a344934

That takes care of CD player and headphone amp.

To connect the turntable, you need a phono preamp like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAD-PHONO-P..._Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item20cdea43fb

Shure makes good cartridges like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-H...id=1354732052&sr=1-1&keywords=shure+cartridge

Are you sure you don't want to add small bookshelf loud speakers to the Denon, 'coz as you know, headphone listening is not good for our ears - especially if you listen loud, like the music you like deserves.

Your headphones are already good - I have the exact ones, and I am satisfied with them. If I were you, I would emphasize other gears with the money saved.

I wish I could use speakers, but my room is so small that I have no room for them. The speakers I have now are right next to each other pointed 90 degrees away from where I sit, so as you see the sound is not good at all.
The Rega rp1 is a turntable I considered but I read that it's pretty entry level and the Technics is a lot better overall.
Thanks for the links.

 

[richmu]

I'd be looking at an NAD 3020, its later/more powerful equivalent or a Proton amp. I have a Proton 520, which is supposedly very similar to the NAD 3020 and it has a decent headphone output- it was quite good with my Sennheiser HD-600. The phono stage is supposed to be good too. You should be able to something under £100 or even £50 quite easily.

I wouldn't worry about a DAC either, just a decent dedicated CD player.

 

[robgmn]

What do you mean by "some way to amplify the cartridge up to the level of the headphone amp"? boy, it gets more complicated by the minute

Plugging a turntable directly into a heapdphone amp won't work as the signal needs to be equalized before it is amplified (look up "RIAA Curve" for more details).
You'll need a phono preamp (can be inexpensive to VERY expensive) to go with the headphone amp.

A basic receiver with a phono input and a headphone jack would also fit the bill (it combines the phono preamp with a the preamp AND the headphone/speaker amplifier).
The benefit of using the "separates" is that it is a very compact setup and allows tailoring of the sound.

 

[Throsh]

Plugging a turntable directly into a heapdphone amp won't work as the signal needs to be equalized before it is amplified (look up "RIAA Curve" for more details).
You'll need a phono preamp (can be inexpensive to VERY expensive) to go with the headphone amp.

A basic receiver with a phono input and a headphone jack would also fit the bill (it combines the phono preamp with a the preamp AND the headphone/speaker amplifier).
The benefit of using the "separates" is that it is a very compact setup and allows tailoring of the sound.

I wouldn't want to spend much on a phono preamp, would a cheaper model affect the sound?

 

[Taowolf51]

Firstly, I'm sorry if you get sick of newcomers asking seemingly stupid questions and posting the same kind of threads, but this seemed like the best place to get some help. Right now I use an all-in-one Hi-FI system that I've had for years; it does the job, but it's pretty crap to be honest. I use a pair of Grado SR80i's for the majority of my listening, and I listen to CDs 90% of the time.

Now I'm employed again I'm looking to upgrade my system as I've been wanting to do it for years. The thing is, I really don't know what I need to get, or what I should get, so I hope you can help me.
My setup will have to be headphone only as I currently do not have the room to place speakers in such a way that will produce a good balanced sound.
I know for definite that I will be getting a Technics sl-1200 mk2 turntable, and I'm thinking of upgrading my Grado's to maybe the SR325is, but these are the items I have no idea about:
CD Player? do I buy a dedicated CD Player, or should I just use my Blu-Ray player, as I've heard that that's a good way of playing CDs?
Amplifier/DAC/Headphone amp? This is where I'm completely clueless. What do I need to/should I get? as I'll be using headphones only is a headphone amp the thing to get? I really have no idea what I'm talking about so I'll really appreciate some input here.

Thanks to anyone who even reads this

On a limited budget, it's usually best to try to go for the best bang for the buck. If you're up to it, I'd probably upgrade one piece of hardware now, then a second later, etc. This'll allow you to get a better overall system than spending $300 on a low-mid system, then another $600 on a whole new system when you want to go to a mid-level system.

If you have a computer, that may be the best way as a standalone DAC is going to give you quite a bit more quality for the money compared to a standard decent quality CD player (not to mention that it's cheaper to upgrade).

I'd start with the headphones, they are the most important piece of the puzzle and will give you the largest boost in sound. If you like Grados, the more expensive Grados are supposed to be pretty good as well as the modified grado headphones from the people over at alessandro (the MS2 would be in your price range). If you'd like to try something different, take a look at the Denon D2000's. They were just discontinued (and replaced with FAR worse headphones), so they may be a bit difficult to find, but if you can find them, they're pretty highly regarded in their price range. They also have a good amount of modding resources that can enhance the sound pretty significantly.
Here's a review of them on Innerfidelity:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/luscious-denon-ah-d2000-ah-d50000-and-ah-d7000

If you'd like to save some cash, Head-Fi has some great Grado modding resources (if you are comfortable with that sort of thing), and the SR-80i's are a popular mod-headphone.

The second one looks interesting, but I'll be using this with a turntable and CD player so the USB one looks like it's not for me, although I'm probably wrong.

So what is the difference between a DAC and an amp/receiver? is a DAC definitely the thing to get for headphone use with a CD player and turntable?

Thanks for the recommendations.

You're right, a USB DAC won't be usable with a CD player (and turntables don't need DACs), you'd need an optical input in your DAC (though you need to make sure your CD player has an optical output first).

A DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter, think of it as a turntable cartridge for digital audio. Where a turntable cartridge converts the grooves on a record into analog sound, the DAC converts the digital data in a digital file into analog sound. Everything that plays digital files already has a DAC in it (since headphones and speakers can only understand analog audio), but it's usually a pretty crappy DAC. A good standalone DAC will give you better sound than the small little DACs in portable electronics. One of the biggest differences between a $20 CD player and a $1500 CD player is the quality of the DAC inside.
An amp is what gives everything power, again, all portable electronics have small amps in them, but they're (again) pretty crappy. A proper amp will do a better job. There are a bunch of different types of amps, but the ones you need to worry about are headphone amps, and phono pre-amps. A headphone amp boosts line-level audio to a level that is loud enough for headphones (and allows for changing the volume with a volume knob). A phono-pre boosts the much lower level from a turntable to a more appropriate level for other types of amps to than boost further for headphones or speakers.

Now, I may not be right about this, but I believe you will also need a phono pre-amp if you are going to use a turntable. If you were just sticking to CD, I'd recommend that O2 amp and ODAC combo from epiphany acoustics mentioned earlier (and a computer). However, since you are also using a turntable, you will need a phono pre-amp, and standalone phono pre-amps can get pretty expensive. In this case, I'd get just the ODAC digital to analog converter (needs a computer), and try to find a vintage integrated amp (normally a speaker amp. Has a phono pre-amp, pre-amp, and power amp) with a headphone output.

Thanks for your input. I'm not looking to buy gear to be used with digital files; just CDs and records. I have an iPod classic but I just use it when outside, and I'm really not a fan of digital. The FiiO amp you mentioned is for a portable setup right? I've researched those before but I don't think they're what I'm looking for.

CDs are digital. There is no difference between a lossless file played from a computer and a CD played from a CD player, they are the same 1's and 0's. What may be the difference you're experiencing with your iPod is a poor DAC, a poor amp, and lossy files. That, or a simple placebo.

 

[Throsh]

Fantastic post, thanks a lot, you really cleared a lot of stuff up for me.

On a limited budget, it's usually best to try to go for the best bang for the buck. If you're up to it, I'd probably upgrade one piece of hardware now, then a second later, etc. This'll allow you to get a better overall system than spending $300 on a low-mid system, then another $600 on a whole new system when you want to go to a mid-level system.

My budget is probably around £700 ($1,125) all in, I think I could get a decent system for that right?

If you have a computer, that may be the best way as a standalone DAC is going to give you quite a bit more quality for the money compared to a standard decent quality CD player (not to mention that it's cheaper to upgrade).

I hear you, I just like playing CDs on a CD player, and it's also a lot easier as it would be awkward using my laptop as a source due to the smallness of my listening space.

I'd start with the headphones, they are the most important piece of the puzzle and will give you the largest boost in sound. If you like Grados, the more expensive Grados are supposed to be pretty good as well as the modified grado headphones from the people over at alessandro (the MS2 would be in your price range). If you'd like to try something different, take a look at the Denon D2000's. They were just discontinued (and replaced with FAR worse headphones), so they may be a bit difficult to find, but if you can find them, they're pretty highly regarded in their price range. They also have a good amount of modding resources that can enhance the sound pretty significantly.
Here's a review of them on Innerfidelity:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/luscious-denon-ah-d2000-ah- d50000-and-ah-d7000

I'm thinking of upgrading to Grado SR325si's and maybe trying Sennheiser 650's, but that would probably be the last thing I upgrade as my headphones at the moment will be fine for the time being.

If you'd like to save some cash, Head-Fi has some great Grado modding resources (if you are comfortable with that sort of thing), and the SR-80i's are a popular mod-headphone.


You're right, a USB DAC won't be usable with a CD player (and turntables don't need DACs), you'd need an optical input in your DAC (though you need to make sure your CD player has an optical output first).

A DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter, think of it as a turntable cartridge for digital audio. Where a turntable cartridge converts the grooves on a record into analog sound, the DAC converts the digital data in a digital file into analog sound. Everything that plays digital files already has a DAC in it (since headphones and speakers can only understand analog audio), but it's usually a pretty crappy DAC. A good standalone DAC will give you better sound than the small little DACs in portable electronics. One of the biggest differences between a $20 CD player and a $1500 CD player is the quality of the DAC inside.
An amp is what gives everything power, again, all portable electronics have small amps in them, but they're (again) pretty crappy. A proper amp will do a better job. There are a bunch of different types of amps, but the ones you need to worry about are headphone amps, and phono pre-amps. A headphone amp boosts line-level audio to a level that is loud enough for headphones (and allows for changing the volume with a volume knob). A phono-pre boosts the much lower level from a turntable to a more appropriate level for other types of amps to than boost further for headphones or speakers.

Now, I may not be right about this, but I believe you will also need a phono pre-amp if you are going to use a turntable. If you were just sticking to CD, I'd recommend that O2 amp and ODAC combo from epiphany acoustics mentioned earlier (and a computer). However, since you are also using a turntable, you will need a phono pre-amp, and standalone phono pre-amps can get pretty expensive. In this case, I'd get just the ODAC digital to analog converter (needs a computer), and try to find a vintage integrated amp (normally a speaker amp. Has a phono pre-amp, pre-amp, and power amp) with a headphone output.



CDs are digital. There is no difference between a lossless file played from a computer and a CD played from a CD player, they are the same 1's and 0's. What may be the difference you're experiencing with your iPod is a poor DAC, a poor amp, and lossy files. That, or a simple placebo.

I just love physical media too much, that's why I wouldn't like to spend money buying equipment to improve the audio quality of digital files played from my computer.

The ODAC is definitely something I'll be exploring more, as is a couple more things mentioned in this thread. I have a bit more of an idea what I need to buy now, so I guess it's just a matter or reading reviews and finding what's right for me.

 

[robgmn]

It's also a good idea to jump into each dedicated forum (turntables, etc.) now that you have an idea of the components you want.
You'll get a lot of recommendations on phono preamps alone that you can cull through to make the decision.
'Same for headphones, headphone amps, etc. (or even full receiversa if you go that route).

Barter Town!!!!!

 

[Robinhawaii]

Hello Throsh, welcome! I use a Woo Audio valve (tube) headphone amplifier, a WA6. They are made in New York, have a voltage switch so it is compatible with your mains in the UK, and if you check eBay you can sometimes find a great deal for used, or just order one directly if time is a factor. It is really nice gear; solid build, and they seem to hold their value. I use mine for late night listening, and I love it. You will still need a phono stage preamp for the turntable, or just connect it directly to a CD or other source.


Take care,

Rob

 

[Taowolf51]

Fantastic post, thanks a lot, you really cleared a lot of stuff up for me.



My budget is probably around £700 ($1,125) all in, I think I could get a decent system for that right?



I hear you, I just like playing CDs on a CD player, and it's also a lot easier as it would be awkward using my laptop as a source due to the smallness of my listening space.



I'm thinking of upgrading to Grado SR325si's and maybe trying Sennheiser 650's, but that would probably be the last thing I upgrade as my headphones at the moment will be fine for the time being.



I just love physical media too much, that's why I wouldn't like to spend money buying equipment to improve the audio quality of digital files played from my computer.

The ODAC is definitely something I'll be exploring more, as is a couple more things mentioned in this thread. I have a bit more of an idea what I need to buy now, so I guess it's just a matter or reading reviews and finding what's right for me.

Oh, 700 pounds is quite a bit more than I expected, you should be able to get a good setup for that.

Okay, CD player it is, then. I'd first start with a decent CD player with an optical output, then I'd go with something like an HRT MSII, MSII+, or Schiit Bifrost as a DAC, and finish it with either a nice vintage integrated amp/receiver, or a headphone amp (not too powerful, Grados are actually fairly easy to drive) and a phono pre.

 

[Throsh]

Oh, so I can just connect the turntable to my CD player and bypass the need for a separate phono preamp?
Thanks for the help everyone, I never expected to get this response.

 

[gongli]

The Rega 2 or 3 TT has just as good if not better reviews than the already good Technics 1200. You might want to google for the reviews your-self.

Rega planet is a CD player that got good reviews as well:


Since they are made in England, you might be able to find a used one over there, and save on the shipping.

With 700 pound, you can get a good mid-fi system, if you go slow and do research like you are doing now.

Might want to read the reviews on hifi internet magazines like this one:

http://www.whathifi.com/awards/2012/

 

[Throsh]

The Rega 2 or 3 TT has just as good if not better reviews than the already good Technics 1200. You might want to google for the reviews your-self.

Rega planet is a CD player that got good reviews as well:


Since they are made in England, you might be able to find a used one over there as well, and save on the shipping.

With 700 pound, you can get a good mid-fi system, if you go slow and do research like you are doing now.

Might want to read the reviews on hifi internet magazines like this one:

http://www.whathifi.com/awards/2012/

I've got my eye on a Rega Planet right now, I hope I can get it for a good price. I just saw I can get a Rega Planar 2 without the tone arm for £35, is this the one you were talking about? the Rega RP3 is a bit too much for me I'd day.

Having a look around Whathifi I saw the Marantz CD6004, this CD player looks really great and it has a built in DAC which is good. The Marantz seems like another possibility.

 

[Taowolf51]

Oh, so I can just connect the turntable to my CD player and bypass the need for a separate phono preamp?
Thanks for the help everyone, I never expected to get this response.

No, you will need a phono preamp to use your turntable.

 

[JoeESP9]

Oh, so I can just connect the turntable to my CD player and bypass the need for a separate phono preamp?
Thanks for the help everyone, I never expected to get this response.

No. The Technics TT you have in mind needs a phono preamp. You will need:

1. A Turntable (you said a Technics SL1200)
2. A cartridge for the TT if it doesn't have one.
3. A phono preamp for the turntable.

You will also need:

1. A CD player
2. A headphone amp with two pair of line level inputs. You could get by with one pair of line level inputs but that will require switching the cables when you change the source.

IMO your best alternative is to buy an integrated amplifier with a headphone jack and on-board phono preamp. This will have speaker connections that you won't be using now. If in the future you decide to acquire speakers you'll already have an amplifier.

 

[Throsh]

Thanks Joe, I've learned so much tonight, it's great.
Is £175 a good price for a used Rega Planar 3 TT?