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I'm done with "fun but fake." Looking for suggestions.

libertycaps said:
Klipsch Cornwall II's.

3D soundstage for Rock, esp. the Stadium Rock era live dlp's. Amazing for Blue Note era Jazz. Makes the Folkies seem like they are in the room with you as well.
I will NEVER sell mine. Ever.
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After stumbling upon my Cornwalls I will agree with this. I'll never sell my 2 pair of JBL's but right now they are in the closet. The Klipsch are incredibly efficient, great bass, they seem perfect for the kind of music I like: string quartets, 4 and 5 piece jazz bands, rock and roll, the typical bluegrass band. I have been highly impressed with them.
 
vinyldavid said:
I have listened to L100's and NLA's every day for 4 years at my high school....the NLA's are better, every time.
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You had to've been there.

[You don't seem to be an air guitar in face paint and loin cloth kinda guy to me.... ;) ]
 
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Zilch said:
[You don't seem to be an air guitar in face paint and loin cloth kinda guy to me.... ;) ]
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Not at all. The better my system gets, the more I move away from most rock music....

I will say, black sabbath sounds awesome on a PA system, tho.
 
vinyldavid said:
I've heard a 604, and it was...interesting. Need to listen to it more to get a better handle on its sound.

70salesguy, I have listened to L100's and NLA's every day for 4 years at my high school....the NLA's are better, every time.
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Well V.D. from what I read since I've been on this site the 70 Sales Guy apparently has been listening to L-100/4300 series JBL's for much longer than you have been breathing on your own and not through an umbilical cord.:D
 
4343 said:
+1 on Pros.

They were designed to mimic the sound of the industry standard Altec monitors of the time. They allowed recording engineers to replace a huge box with a smaller one without having to re-learn the sound of the control room monitors. Workflow was not interrupted like it would have been with a completely flat, accurate monitor. People were used to the sound they had been using for years, and did NOT want to change overnight. Sales-wise, it was a successful strategy...

Recording sessions are a completely different situation from merely playing back a recording. Playback gives you the luxury of time, time to listen to the quality of the recording, time to appreciate the music, time to listen over and over, etc. During a session time is the most precious commodity, you don't get a second chance to hear the microphone overload or the pre-amp clipping. The exaggerated treble actually helps in hearing these sorts of distortions sooner, and keeping them out of the final product.

The boomy bass was probably just what a 604 sounds like in the size box that it was used in...
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I have done some studio work and understand what you're saying. However, IMO that approach to speaker design results in something that's all but un-listenable for normal playback.
 
Did ANYONE of you eq the system to the room? If not nothing you say means anything. I NEVER judge a speaker unless I know for fact that someone with the proper experience and equipment has done his job.

Consider this analog....if you put a Ferrari F-40 on a set of 7.35 bias ply recaps, it will drive like ****.

One more thing...everyone of those ALTEC/Lansing (know where the Lansing came from?) and JBL monitors were eq'd to the control room.
 
JoeESP9 said:
I have done some studio work and understand what you're saying. However, IMO that approach to speaker design results in something that's all but un-listenable for normal playback.
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My point exactly...

mikethebike said:
Did ANYONE of you eq the system to the room? If not nothing you say means anything. I NEVER judge a speaker unless I know for fact that someone with the proper experience and equipment has done his job.

Consider this analog....if you put a Ferrari F-40 on a set of 7.35 bias ply recaps, it will drive like ****.

One more thing...everyone of those ALTEC/Lansing (know where the Lansing came from?) and JBL monitors were eq'd to the control room.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised how many people skip even having an EQ in their system these days. One studio I built had 9 really nice high $$$$ monitors plus sub (5.1 control room and two stereo playback areas in the studio). I got them all connected and roughed in the placement, fully expecting the client to bring in an acoustical consultant for the fine tuning (It wasn't in MY contract, nor was there an EQ to rough in anyway, just those little DIP switches on the amps on the rear of the monitors, I left them at the factory default position). A couple of hours later they were hard at work mixing projects that had gotten delayed by the move to the new facility. Next time I was in there I noticed that the DIP switches were still in the factory positions. They did get the lighting contractor to fix the buzzing light I pointed out to them while testing the sub...
 
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JoeESP9 said:
I have done some studio work and understand what you're saying. However, IMO that approach to speaker design results in something that's all but un-listenable for normal playback.
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They were nearfield monitors, typicaly deployed without boundary reinforcement on the meter bridge. Engineers took them home and liked them there, as well. Their friends liked them too, and thus, L100 and "West Coast" was born; the rest is history. They're the quintessential rock speakers -- boomy bass, forward midrange, and rolled-off highs. In later iterations, the highs (the "tizz" part of "boom, tizz") were extended using more competent tweeters.

[No less fake than "East Coast," but WAY more fun for (us) headbangers.... ;) ]
 
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vinyldavid said:
I've heard a 604, and it was...interesting. Need to listen to it more to get a better handle on its sound.

70salesguy, I have listened to L100's and NLA's every day for 4 years at my high school....the NLA's are better, every time.
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What are "NLA"s ? New Large Advents?

Jim
 
Klipsch Cornwall's........................................................ and your done!:thmbsp:
 
Zilch said:
They were nearfield monitors, typicaly deployed without boundary reinforcement on the meter bridge. Engineers took them home and liked them there, as well. Their friends liked them too, and thus, L100 and "West Coast" was born; the rest is history. They're the quintessential rock speakers -- boomy bass, forward midrange, and rolled-off highs. In later iterations, the highs (the "tizz" part of "boom, tizz") were extended using more competent tweeters.

[No less fake than "East Coast," but WAY more fun for (us) headbangers.... ;) ]
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I remember when the L100 was introduced. I didn't like them then. Boomy and in your face has never worked for me. I'm aware these aberrations can be corrected. However, buying a speaker that needs to be fixed to make it listenable doesn't work for me.

BTW: I was using a pair of AR's back then.
 
4343 said:
My point exactly...



You'd be surprised how many people skip even having an EQ in their system these days. One studio I built had 9 really nice high $$$$ monitors plus sub (5.1 control room and two stereo playback areas in the studio). I got them all connected and roughed in the placement, fully expecting the client to bring in an acoustical consultant for the fine tuning (It wasn't in MY contract, nor was there an EQ to rough in anyway, just those little DIP switches on the amps on the rear of the monitors, I left them at the factory default position). A couple of hours later they were hard at work mixing projects that had gotten delayed by the move to the new facility. Next time I was in there I noticed that the DIP switches were still in the factory positions. They did get the lighting contractor to fix the buzzing light I pointed out to them while testing the sub...
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In the house next door that we built 11 years ago I could get away with no eq. You just had to hear that houses' acoustics to believe it. MOST rooms aren't like that. The house we owned while we built our present one had a room that could not be fixed with eq'ing. The estimate for 'tuning' the room was in the thousands. The house we have now has so much volume in the lr, dr, kit, office and foyer (27 ft ceiling in foyer and wide open to all the listed rooms) it has a damned echo. If I didn't have ceiling speakers in each room you wouldn't be able to understand what was being played. Luckily We have a dedicated 'media' room for the HDTV with built-in's and a 7.1 system and I have my own stereo room that hopefully will be finished this winter. The plan is to mount everything flush in the wall with nothing protruding into the room and only 1 or 2 chairs with 1 coffee table and 1 end table. Then and only then will I even consider adjusting anything on the system. When that time comes I'll call Mark over at Don Jones Stereo and have him come over with his professional equipment and we'll dial it in.

Another car analogy.....would you even consider tuning your go-fast engine without the proper test equipment? You can go by the seat of your pants if you chose but the guy with the equipment to properly set cam timing,ignition timing, valve lash, fuel mix and delivery options will in all probability put you on the trailer.
 

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theprofessor said:
I've had my JBL 4312a Monitors for about 10 months or so. Initially, I liked them a whole lot; I found them to be much more forward than my AR-3s, but the boxy and boomy bass is really detracting from my overall listening experience. I don't want something that is bass heavy, but I would like something with improved extension. I have some friends who are willing to lend me some speakers to demo (Walsh 2s and Heresy), but I am open to other suggestions. New or old doesn't matter to me.

My amp is a McIntosh MC2105 and I have a budget of $1,000.
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There is something I've noticed on this and some forums:

1. Harley riders seem to never jump in on a thread and tell riders of other makes that their bikes are ****.

2. JBL aficionados are much the same.

3. UJM riders just HAVE to tell all us Harley guys that out 30+ year old bikes with 100k or 200k miles are junk. Imagine that...my XLCH has 200,000 miles on it that I have put all but 8 of those but a UJM with 20k is a better bike.

4. Non JBL guys just have an uncontrollable urge to bad mouth them.

I think it's the same inferiority complex that FORD drivers of the 1960's had. With maybe the exception of the 428 CJ nothing they offered could keep up with a like priced Chevy so they would stand around badmouthing the Chevy. And don't even bring up a CPBRA...THAT was a Shelby creation and if the truth were known....which it is but never admitted to....Shelby first approached GM to use a SBC in the AC Bristol Ace. They declined.
 
A big target is easier to hit!

mikethebike said:
There is something I've noticed on this and some forums:

1. Harley riders seem to never jump in on a thread and tell riders of other makes that their bikes are ****.

2. JBL aficionados are much the same.

3. UJM riders just HAVE to tell all us Harley guys that out 30+ year old bikes with 100k or 200k miles are junk. Imagine that...my XLCH has 200,000 miles on it that I have put all but 8 of those but a UJM with 20k is a better bike.

4. Non JBL guys just have an uncontrollable urge to bad mouth them.

I think it's the same inferiority complex that FORD drivers of the 1960's had. With maybe the exception of the 428 CJ nothing they offered could keep up with a like priced Chevy so they would stand around badmouthing the Chevy. And don't even bring up a CPBRA...THAT was a Shelby creation and if the truth were known....which it is but never admitted to....Shelby first approached GM to use a SBC in the AC Bristol Ace. They declined.
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JBL is a big target. It's a brand that is widely recognized by most folks and is a company that has produced a wide variety of speakers. There's probably not another speaker manufacturer (other than Altec) that is more widely used in professional applications.

But just as with anything else, there are fans and detractors. There are even "camps" within the JBL faithful about what are the best sounding units. It doesn't particularly upset me that other criticize JBLs, individual tastes vary greatly. People actually do hear differently! And as pointed out earlier, acoustics of the room make a huge difference as well.

Anyone that has ever closely examined most JBL drivers can clearly see how well they were built, with cast frames and other features that separate them from a lot of their competition. When you're the "Big Dog" on the block, you make a big target.

If a person has listened to a lot of different speakers and decides that he likes Brand X, then that's clearly the best for him. IMHO, your opinion may change over time and as you move up the equipment ladder. Another thought that comes to mind is the old saying "if you have no money, you try to convince others that poverty is a virtue". Or in other words, if you don't have something or can't afford something, try to convince everyone that it's just not that great.

I love my JBLs, and I can afford to buy other even more expensive speakers. But my JBLs provide the performance I like and if others don't agree, that's just the way it goes. I always consider the source of the criticism.
 
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