Imaging and speaker placement question

[JeffNTaxes]

Best imaging I get is when seated 2-3 feet from my speakers, centered. But that's not practical. My typical seated position is 6' from speakers, centered at the top of an 8'x6'x6' Isosceles triangle.
I've tried all combinations of moving speakers away from wall and every possible toe in/out angle. I have it set now where it sounds very good, but the imaging is less 3D than when I'm up very close. I think the problem is I just can't get the speakers wide enough for my room.

Setup: Superphon Revelation Basic > Superphon DM200, Snell Type D's, Martin Logan Descent i sub, Systemdek IIX. Digital Roon/Tidal > Geshelli J2 w/AK4493

Any opinions? (error below, the speakers are marked L and R but they're reversed)

 

[toddalin]

Turn it the other way and make it symmetrical in the room. Move the speakers out ~3 feet and put your seating ~3 feet from the back wall. My room is ~16 x 26

 

[grey]

Good suggestion above. Is it a hard floor? A thick rug, blankets, pillows, etc. on the floor to absorb the first reflection could be worth experimenting with.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

Turn it the other way and make it symmetrical in the room. Move the speakers out ~3 feet and put your seating ~3 feet from the back wall. My room is ~16 x 26

Unfortunately turning it the long way isn't an option for a few reasons.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

Good suggestion above. Is it a hard floor? A thick rug, blankets, pillows, etc. on the floor to absorb the first reflection could be worth experimenting with.

It's vinyl faux wood over slab, but there is a thick carpet over it

 

[opnly bafld]

Rear tweeter on or off?

 

[opnly bafld]

I had a 12 ft W (speaker wall) x 20 ft L room with all kinds of speakers over 20 years and was always able to get an excellent soundstage.
Of course with 3 and 4 way speakers I moved my LP back compared to wideband or 2 way.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

Rear tweeter on or off?

Off

 

[Lux Man]

So the Snells want to be that far from the wall?

 

[JeffNTaxes]

So the Snells want to be that far from the wall?

In my tests, yes they get boomy up against it

 

[grey]

Do you have anything else in the room or stored elsewhere that can be added/moved to absorb or diffuse?

 

[JeffNTaxes]

Do you have anything else in the room or stored elsewhere that can be added/moved to absorb or diffuse?

there's no issue with diffusion, this is up close without reflection, and the room is well treated

 

[Dave1027]

I'd move the speakers wider apart for a more expansive image. Experiment with speaker spacing to find the sweet spot where the image is widest without a hole in the middle.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

I'd move the speakers wider apart for a more expansive image. Experiment with speaker spacing to find the sweet spot where the image is widest without a hole in the middle.

Yeah they're already as wide apart as the room allows, which is why I'm experimenting with depth from front wall, distance to listening spot at top of triangle, and toe.

 

[Dave1027]

If you toe in, you'd have to compensate by moving them further apart. Your diagram shows the speakers 3 feet or so from the side walls. Why can't you go closer to the side walls?

 

[JeffNTaxes]

If you toe in, you'd have to compensate by moving them further apart. Your diagram shows the speakers 3 feet or so from the side walls. Why can't you go closer to the side walls?

Closet door on right and record bin/window on left keeps me from making them wider.

 

[toddalin]

Try closer together. Maybe you are getting too much early reflection from the side walls. By moving them closer to you, you sort of accomplish this same thing in that you hear more of the direct signal before the early reflections. Also try to point them toward your seat, on center, to reduce side wall bounce.

My speakers are less than 8 feet apart center to center and I sit about 10-1/2 feet back, and the soundstage is as wide/wider than the 26 feet of room when the signal calls for it.

 

[onanysunday]

You could try slight risers or stands that allow a tilt-back. It will likely help LF and decouple them from the floor and help with time alignment when dialed-in properly. Too much bass coupling (from speaker to floor) or vibration can cause signal smear. Adjustable spikes could also provide some decoupling and allow some tilt-back.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

You could try slight risers or stands that allow a tilt-back. It will help decouple them from the floor and help with time alignment when dialed-in properly.

Thanks, I've tried risers, they don't improve imaging and they raise the tweeters too high over my seated position. I've been experimenting more the past few days and have found a nice combo with more aggressive tow-in, moving seating back further, and pulling speaks another 6" from front wall.

 

[knotscott]

Do you tilt them back at all?