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Improving the Fisher 400

Hey everyone,

I just finished a rebuild ala the Jim McShane kit and am starting to do parts orders for mods. I noticed on the schematics that eduarsan1 produced (this whole thread has been amazing) some of the caps don't have a unit attached. Are all caps in the schematics uF or are the non-unit identified one pF?
 
Some of the unlabeled caps are pF and some are uF.
For example, the caps on either side of the op-amp are uF and caps C79 and C80 are pF.

The schematic is on page 15, post #292 in case you want to ask about specific capacitors.

Jef
 
Generally whole numbers will be picofarad unless noted, decimals will be microfarad unless noted, and resistors are 1/2w. Usually it has a mention somewhere on the schematic saying as much.
 
For those who built the Buffer Amplifier to allow for the conversion of the largely unused Reverb jacks into true Preamp Output/Power Amp Input jacks (schematic in post #41), a revised schematic of the Buffer Amplifier is being offered here, superseding the original design. For many who installed this modification, the original design of the buffer is perfectly satisfactory for their needs. Others however, have had the audacity to suggest using the tuner/preamp section of their 400 with a SS power amplifier! In this scenario, the buffer as originally presented offers inadequate LF coupling -- even though the basic buffer circuit itself is more than capable of driving typical SS equipment with ease. In the revised design, this issue has been addressed so that now even when the Preamp Output jacks are used with SS amplifiers whose input impedance is as low as 25KΩ, the buffer will now allow for a full un-attenuated response down to below 20 Hz.

In addition, the buffer's input coupling network has been revised to reduce any loading effects on the balance and volume control circuits of the Fisher, as the volume control is advanced above a 12:00-1:00 setting. Below this setting, the loading presented by the buffer on these circuits is insignificant, but starts becoming significant as the volume control setting rises to 2:00 and above. In this case, the loading presented has no effect on measured frequency response but rather, on the overall gain of the Fisher's control circuits. The revised buffer design offered now presents negligible loading to the balance and volume control circuits, allowing for 99.58% of the Fisher's line stage gain to pass through un-attenuated when the volume control is advanced to full up. As more and more folks turn back to their vinyl collections, total gain of the Fisher becomes important to work with the widest number of cartridges available. Note that when the full bag of modifications was implemented with the original buffer design, the buffer's loading was (in part) accounted for by bypassing the cathode resistors of the line and tone amp stages. When using the new buffer design, bypassing those cathode resistors is no longer necessary, unless additional gain -- beyond that offered by the original design of the 400 -- is desired.

Finally, power for the buffer circuit has been slightly revised as well -- primarily to ease installation when modern IBAM/IBBM modifications are installed. Originally, the buffer was powered off of the old bias circuit feed -- no longer used when fully adjustable modifications were installed. Now, whether such circuits are installed or not, the buffer is supplied from the power supplying the 12AX7 heaters in the phono preamp and line/tone control circuits. Since the line/tone control circuits are typically nearby to where the buffer amplifier is installed, it makes for easy access to the point where power is tapped from. The higher voltage now supplied to the buffer versus that available from the old bias feed circuit also allows the buffer circuit to supply a greater peak un-distorted output as well. The original buffer design had an un-distorted output level capable of driving any typical power amplifier design to full power output, while the new buffer design provides an even greater reserve in peak output capability for that task.

So the revised buffer design offers multiple improvements. But for those who built the original buffer simply to eliminate the Miller occurring at the power amplifier input stage, or use it to drive only external vacuum tube devices, the revised design will offer little if any improved performance over that of the original design. Still, just like Fisher, I'm always looking for ways to improve any modifications I've presented previously, and such is the case then with the buffer amplifier here.

Along with the revised schematic, a pic of the revised buffer installed in a client's early version 400 receiver is presented as well.

Happy listening!

Dave

Revised Buffer Amplifier.jpg

Installed in an early version 400 receiver. The Speaker Off load resistors originally occupying the location where the buffer amplifier is mounted are now stacked on top of each other, and turned sideways against the T-Strip they connect to:
SAM_2725.JPG
 
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interesting. so to convert the original buffer one would need a .01uf 50v, 2.2uf 35v capacitors and 10m, 1k resistors. Is the 2.2uf a non polarize electrolytic or film in your picture?
 
The 2.2 uF cap is a polarized device, because the output terminal of the op-amp (which one lead of this cap connects to) sits at -10 vdc below ground level, while the output side of the cap references ground. Therefore, a non-polarized cap would not be appropriate in this application. The cap can be bypassed with a film cap if desired, but that is typically only necessary in audio applications when the value of the electrolytic cap exceeds 50 uF or so.

Dave
 
Dave, is the buffer modification worth doing when one inserts a a parametric eq between the preamp and poweramp section with a input sensitivity/impedance of 1V/47k (1 khz)? I'd just automatically do it but i don't have all the parts on hand. Once again thanks for sharing all your hard work with us. I appreciate it.
 
Hello to Everybody in the AK Community.

After a while, I´m here trying to support this beautiful and amazing hobby where checking at least a valuable information given by Dave Gillespie, I have upgraded their version to a Revision # 1 where is upgraded the OP-AMP section and the phase inverter noose posted in another thread.

@dcgillespie Please give us your feedback about the drawings.

In advance I give apologies for the delayed answer in make this. (The time is short when Family and Job arises)

Regards From Bogotá, Colombia!!!

Luis E.

(Edit a new correction is done in the unity gain buffer, the value cap was wrong)
 

Attachments

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Luis, thanks once again for spending the time and updating the schematic. It cleared up the polarity of the capacitor on the output of the buffer circuit for me.

Anyway, I finally got around to rewiring my output jacks to insert a Technics sh-9010 parametric eq between the pre and power amp. it seemed to work good. Thanks Dave. I have to go back into the unit and swap cables around though at the jacks. I reversed the channel. Is it worth me updating the buffer board to the new version for the eq's 47k input/300ohm output?
 
Wow! Over half a year ago Luis updated the schematic to the later buffer amp design, and I was completely unaware of it. Sorry about that! Thank-you Luis for performing the update!

Danny -- When I designed the original buffer, I did not take into account the fact that some folks might wish to use their modified 400 to drive a SS power amplifier or other external SS device. The updated buffer design allows for driving loads as low as 25K while still delivering flat frequency response down to 20 Hz, which the original design could not do. Updating the buffer then primarily depends on the input impedance of your EQ unit. If it is notably less than 100KΩ, then the update would be worth it if you wish to have full extension to lowest frequencies of the audio band. However, even if the original buffer design works well with the input impedance of your EQ unit, the changes made to the input of the buffer design might make it worth your while to update the buffer anyway. When the output of the buffer was updated to drive lower impedance loads, the input of it was updated as well so as to be virtually invisible as a load to the volume control. This change doesn't have any impact on sound quality, but does allow all the gain the original design has to pass unimpeded through the volume control circuit.

I hope this helps!

Dave
 
Dave, you're explanation totally helps. The input of the eq is 47k so it sounds like it may benefit from the upgrade. I just hope to have the parts that I need to do so on hand. All the local places to buy stuff have disappeared:( Maybe it's time to just order some new parts kits on Amazon.

BTW, how does one use their updated Fisher 400 as a preamp? With the speaker switch set to off and large 8 ohm resistors on the speaker outputs?
 
That works. Or, if you plan to use it in that mode for an extended period, then you can remove the output tubes as well. Just remember which tube goes in which socket if you have an IBAM installed.

Dave
 
Dave, in the new new buffer will 9.4M resistance work in place of the 10M, I only have 4.7m's on hand. If not I can add a 470k. How important is the quality of the 2.2uf cap on it's output? I only have some cheapo Leon brand and some new tantalum's on hand. I do not have super golden ears.

I never thought about yanking the output tubes. great idea. thanks.

Edit, I'm also just slightly confused on where to grab the power for the buffer board upgrade. Do I just take it from from one of the tone control tube's heater pins? Is Luis's latest update right on how the board is powered? It looks the same to me as earlier revs of it but I could be missing something.
 
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9.4 Meg is good enough. The idea is to eliminate any significant loading on the volume control as it is advanced from zero. The original 1Meg resistor was only twice the value of the control itself. 10Meg is 20 times the size, making its impact rather insignificant.

I have never been one to champion the sound of components. It's the circuit that produces the sound -- be it good or bad. The components simply make up the circuit. You want to use quality parts, but lots of manufacturers make quality parts. Generic parts are fine by me. If the circuit is good and operating correctly, the parts only become a factor relative to their tolerances and specific characteristics.

When I did the original buffer design and installation, I grabbed power from the old bias supply point that I left in the receiver, but was no longer being used. If it's still in your receiver and EFB™ is installed, you can use it, or tap off the nearest tone control tube if you like. Either will work, with the only difference being that the voltage at the tone control tube will be a little higher, and less filtered. But because of the high PS rejection ratio of the op-amp -- and the large cap appearing after the diode -- the reduced filtering makes virtually no difference.

I'll check Luis's drawing when I get a chance.

Dave
 
Dave, thanks for clearing that up. If I keep the buffer grabbing it's power from the old bias point do I still need to add the 1k resistor before the diode? i can't remember if it's already there. It's been years....

I really appreciate you for sharing all this information with us. You've turned a already great receiver into something fantastic. A real treat to listen to.
 
The 1KΩ resistor shown on my schematic is the same 1KΩ resistor that is part of the original bias reduction network used in late version receivers.

Dave
 
Thanks again Dave. I'm going to go tear into my unit and upgrade the buffer and finally the RIAA. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
I'm now getting a faint distorted single in both channels:(. is the 2.2uf capacitor orientated with it's negative lead towards the 100ohm resistor? Thanks.

I replaced the two capacitors flipping them and it's a bit louder but still distorted:(. I wonder where I went wrong. It's the same in both channels at least.
 
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No. Other way around. Because the buffer operates from a negative voltage with respect to ground, the negative side of the 2.2 uf cap should go to the op-amp. The positive side of the cap goes to the 100Ω resistor.

What is the measured voltage being supplied to the buffer?

Dave
 
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