Increase Mids and high of speakers

[anis493]

Hello every body,

How is the idea about adding external tweeter and mid range speakers to increase mid and highs of speakers ?
I have Onkyo TX NR636 with Pioneer Private 4-way speakers 10" woofer. Its bass is good but its mid and highs are not that much.

I am looking to increase its quality, may be by adding fiber insulation foam ?

I can understand, i can't convert these speakers to very high end like this but if i can improve even little, that will be good. I am planning to add pioneer or kenwood equalizer set for same purpose. Will it be good ?

 

[Gang-Twanger]

With a situation like that, especially where the midrange is concerned, it's usually better to just find some different speakers. If it was the bass, an active sub would probably do the trick, but the mids are everything, at least in my opinion, so if you have significant issues with the mids (and highs) of your current speakers, I think your efforts & budget will be better-served by looking for some different speakers rather than trying to modify your current ones. Just my personal two cents on that. Your mileage (and others') may vary.

Wait, are those non-export Pioneers? I assume they were part of some rack system series gear, but if they're non-export, then they might be something special. Not sure though. I guess part of it depends on what kind of synergy your getting between your speakers and the receiver (If one is outclassing the other or simply isn't a good match for the other, that alone can cause those kinds of issues)

 

[turboyam]

Are you sure all of the drivers work on your Pioneers?.

 

[swechsler]

The Onkyo is a current model AV receiver. Everything is digital, no pots.

I'm not familiar with this particular model. Does it offer a built-in equalizer? Some HT receivers have parametric EQs. It might pay to check the manual to see if there are any adjustments you can make to boost the mid and treble a little.

Also, what's the model number of your speakers? Some of the Private models look interesting.

 

[twiiii]

Designing a speaker correctly is a very serious undertaking. And just slapping other speakers in place of the originals is not an answer. Its like deciding my 327 small block isn't putting out enough. Do I up grade the engine with shaving the heads, changing compression ratios, going to large valves, or changing from two valves to 4 or do I just add new intake and exhaust manifolds and a bigger Holley Carburetor? Then do I change the the camshaft? Camshaft or cross over, intake manifold or midrange, exhaust manifold or woofer, all are very intricate devices that demand sophisticated knowledge with a lot of experience. I would trade your old 327 Chevelle and look for a 427 vette or if you want something with more precise road handling a C6 vette. JBL makes a whole family of speakers with a wide variety of technologies to consider. Or you could look at a company that specializes in a more narrow type, such as B&W, KEF, Klipsch, etc etc etc.

 

[anis493]

With a situation like that, especially where the midrange is concerned, it's usually better to just find some different speakers. If it was the bass, an active sub would probably do the trick, but the mids are everything, at least in my opinion, so if you have significant issues with the mids (and highs) of your current speakers, I think your efforts & budget will be better-served by looking for some different speakers rather than trying to modify your current ones. Just my personal two cents on that. Your mileage (and others') may vary.

Wait, are those non-export Pioneers? I assume they were part of some rack system series gear, but if they're non-export, then they might be something special. Not sure though. I guess part of it depends on what kind of synergy your getting between your speakers and the receiver (If one is outclassing the other or simply isn't a good match for the other, that alone can cause those kinds of issues)

Yes those are non-export pioneers 10" 4 way. I have uploaded pictures on following thread:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pioneer-private-speaker-series.689132/

 

[anis493]

Are you sure all of the drivers work on your Pioneers?.

I haven't verified that all are working or not .... I am sorry I should have verified this before.

 

[anis493]

The Onkyo is a current model AV receiver. Everything is digital, no pots.

I'm not familiar with this particular model. Does it offer a built-in equalizer? Some HT receivers have parametric EQs. It might pay to check the manual to see if there are any adjustments you can make to boost the mid and treble a little.

Also, what's the model number of your speakers? Some of the Private models look interesting.

You are right, I have seen some HT receivers with built-in equalizer but mine one does not has.
Model is Pioneer Private 4way S-X650V 130W 6Ohm.

Check attachments

 

[anis493]

Designing a speaker correctly is a very serious undertaking. And just slapping other speakers in place of the originals is not an answer. Its like deciding my 327 small block isn't putting out enough. Do I up grade the engine with shaving the heads, changing compression ratios, going to large valves, or changing from two valves to 4 or do I just add new intake and exhaust manifolds and a bigger Holley Carburetor? Then do I change the the camshaft? Camshaft or cross over, intake manifold or midrange, exhaust manifold or woofer, all are very intricate devices that demand sophisticated knowledge with a lot of experience. I would trade your old 327 Chevelle and look for a 427 vette or if you want something with more precise road handling a C6 vette. JBL makes a whole family of speakers with a wide variety of technologies to consider. Or you could look at a company that specializes in a more narrow type, such as B&W, KEF, Klipsch, etc etc etc.

Hi,
I totally agree with you. Problem is I don't find good speakers in good price within my region. I planned to get JBL 100 or Pioneer HPM 100 speaker at one time but the issue is shipping cost. I am from Gulf Region and shipping charges cost me more than the actual cost of item. I got these Pioneer Private for 50$. I have Canton GLE 60 also and I paid around 200$ (with shipment) to get it in my room. The price for canton is high but its quality worth. Its clarity mid & highs are away better than these Pioneer. So I was looking for some cheap solution to increase quality.

Thanks for your opinion and advise

Regards,

 

[baco99]

are those a 4-way speaker?

if you really want to experiment with them and cost is not an issue, I would start by tightening up the bass. Not making it louder, but making it cleaner, might help bring the upper ranges out a little more.

1) Add some internal bracing to the cabinet. Take the woofer out, measure the inside dimensions from top to bottom, cut some wood 1"x2" and connect from top to bottom and side to side. I would use construction adhesive to hold them in place. That will keep the sides of the cabinet from flexing.

2) Replace the capacitors with new. Those are not high end speakers, so they likely use electrolytic caps, which can (not always) degrade over time. For less than $20 you can get some good quality polypropylene caps. You will have to read the values off of the ones that are in there. Take pictures, because the internet doesn't know what the insides of those speakers look like.

3) More than likely there are one or two resistors in series with the midrange and the upper midrange. Our ears hear midrange from 200-3000 Hz the most clearly. It's typical for inexpensive speakers to have the mids dropped so that the high and low frequencies seem more pronounced than they should be. I'm going to guess there's a 2-4 ohm resistor in front of each of the upper drivers. Lowering that resistance will send more power to those drivers. CAVEAT: I am only speculating here. I have no idea what you'll find when you open those up.

4) Those are a ported cabinet. Adding internal stuffing will probably not help the bass, in fact is will likely make it less accurate and more sloppy. If you want to reduce the bass, you can block the port with some charcoal foam.



If none of that works, let them loose and find something else. The Cantons you have already are a much better speaker, IMO.

 

[slow_jazz]

I use supertweeters

 

[Bratwurst7s]

The Canton's that I've heard are great sounding speakers with very clear highs & mids and surprising bass for their size. Recommend that you look for a pair of Canton Karat 60's if you like the mids and highs of your GLE 60's and just want more bass.

Cheers,
James

 

[swechsler]

These speakers are almost 30 years old and look to be decent quality, so I suspect they aren't functioning properly. Are there adjustment knobs on the back? They may be dirty inside. Also, the crossover capacitors may be in need of replacement.

 

[Renegade]

I'd recap the speakers and verify that the mids and tweets all work for sure,,,,,,,, I don't know what you have your crossover set at but I'd move it up about 10 or 20 and see if that doesn't bring out some more mids. I have a 535 and it's a pretty easy adjustment in the setup,,,,,,,, and make sure you have "No Sub" selected also if you aren't running a sub. Another option is to run a sub and cross it at about 80, maybe 100 and let the 8s handle more mids. As far as the high's, I had to add an eq to brighten mine up a bit to get the sizzle and attack from the drums. I don't have mine running right now because I'm using my KR 9600 but it is a nice unit for the money,,,,,,,,,,,, and if yours is like my 535, you can play it in stereo mode instead of surround, and it's got more ass that way.

 

[Djcoolray]

Hello every body,

How is the idea about adding external tweeter and mid range speakers to increase mid and highs of speakers ?
I have Onkyo TX NR636 with Pioneer Private 4-way speakers 10" woofer. Its bass is good but its mid and highs are not that much.

I am looking to increase its quality, may be by adding fiber insulation foam ?

I can understand, i can't convert these speakers to very high end like this but if i can improve even little, that will be good. I am planning to add pioneer or kenwood equalizer set for same purpose. Will it be good ?

On screen display...

Settings.....

 

[swechsler]

By the way, this receiver doesn't have a tape monitor loop or preamp in/out jacks, so you won't be able to add an equalizer to it.

 

[Renegade]

By the way, this receiver doesn't have a tape monitor loop or preamp in/out jacks, so you won't be able to add an equalizer to it.

You can add an eq in the cd line in. I did it with my 535. Only the CD gets EQ, but that was my primary source anyway.

 

[baco99]

the receiver has a built in EQ. it's not a slouch.

 

[Porkloin]

Squirrely had a thread which eventually evolved into him getting a pair of Elites. They're a box with a built in crossover and a Heil Air Motion Transformer. I've never heard of anyone that wasn't thrilled with a Heil on top.
The beauty of the Heil for the OP's objective is that is crosses over considerably lower than the average tweeter into the normally midrange frequencies.
Drawbacks - usually pricey and you're putting a pair of speakers on each channel, which may present too low an impedence hooked up parallel, too high hooked up in series. I believe the manual says to hook them up in series.

 

[anis493]

are those a 4-way speaker?

if you really want to experiment with them and cost is not an issue, I would start by tightening up the bass. Not making it louder, but making it cleaner, might help bring the upper ranges out a little more.

1) Add some internal bracing to the cabinet. Take the woofer out, measure the inside dimensions from top to bottom, cut some wood 1"x2" and connect from top to bottom and side to side. I would use construction adhesive to hold them in place. That will keep the sides of the cabinet from flexing.

2) Replace the capacitors with new. Those are not high end speakers, so they likely use electrolytic caps, which can (not always) degrade over time. For less than $20 you can get some good quality polypropylene caps. You will have to read the values off of the ones that are in there. Take pictures, because the internet doesn't know what the insides of those speakers look like.

3) More than likely there are one or two resistors in series with the midrange and the upper midrange. Our ears hear midrange from 200-3000 Hz the most clearly. It's typical for inexpensive speakers to have the mids dropped so that the high and low frequencies seem more pronounced than they should be. I'm going to guess there's a 2-4 ohm resistor in front of each of the upper drivers. Lowering that resistance will send more power to those drivers. CAVEAT: I am only speculating here. I have no idea what you'll find when you open those up.

4) Those are a ported cabinet. Adding internal stuffing will probably not help the bass, in fact is will likely make it less accurate and more sloppy. If you want to reduce the bass, you can block the port with some charcoal foam.



If none of that works, let them loose and find something else. The Cantons you have already are a much better speaker, IMO.

I will work on replacing the capacitors. thank you so much for details
Appreciated