Indoor powered FM antennas

[Big Mac]

Good afternoon!

I need some guidance on indoor powered FM antennas.

I live 45 miles from good radio, in a mostly rural area, and I don't want to mount an outdoor rig.

Is there ANY good indoor antenna available in the forest of garbage I have been reading about?

Someone please direct me!

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Not too many. And amplified antennas sometimes amplify noise as badly as signal. Are the stations you wish to hear powerful? Weak? What kind of tuner do you own? Is your terrain challenging like having hills, mountains, ridges, or other obstacles between you and your stations of choice?

 

[Big Mac]

Hi Kent!

The stations are PBS and are rather weak. The terrain is undulating hills and valleys.

I am using a Pioneer TX-608 from way back when as a tuner.

Any suggestions would be welcomed!

 

[FauxHall]

Here's a RadioShack powered FM antenna I picked up for $10.

It has rabbit ears, the best indoor antenna form, and three selectable levels of RF amplifier gain. One can also select a coax cable input or the antenna and there is some sort of internal directionality control that doesn't seem to make much difference.

This is the best I've seen or used. Good luck finding one.

 

[jsixis]

I've owned a lot of them, mostly cheap ones, from radio shack, they don't seem to work for me.

 

[Naptown Rob]

The only ones I've had are the Terks, & as Kent described amplified everything - but especially noise.
Weak, noisy signals became louder noisy signals.

 

[frankxbe]

I've owned a lot of them, mostly cheap ones, from radio shack, they don't seem to work for me.

Ditto , The one I had would not pull stereo very well only about 3-4 Sac. stations I was about
45 -50 ~ miles from SF stations same from SAC . OTA reception was poor on a Pioneer SX980 .Had to use cable signal until they dropped that .

Sony ES avr wouldn't pick up any OTA FM nada no SF no SAC stations nothing.
For HDTV OTA reception here where I live you need an outdoor for good results so I make do with 200 channels of dish network w/Hd service they have music and XM radio as well.
Of course only about 110 channels have HD capability and ~90 of them aren't worth watching .

 

[Big Mac]

Thanks for all the responses...

I guess it was a good thing I sold my McIntosh tuners when I did.....FM, if not dead, is on its last legs, at least in the Southern Tier of New York....

Such a pity considering what it was like even a few years ago....

 

[IraGress]

I firmly believe most "powered" antennae are at par with a ball of foil on a salad fork.
The best antenna I've had is a flat plastic job just like the RCA ANT1000 Ultra Slim Profile Flat Directional Digital Indoor TV Antenna.
I don't know why your antenna must be indoor, but if it's to avoid climbing on the roof with power-tools, you could always put a cheap (Craigslist even) roof-type aerial in the attic or even tucked up in the top shelf of a closet.
You could even try your hand at making your own. Just google DIY antenna.
Better yet, try DIY fractal antenna. Some interesting stuff there.
They've found that wire bent into rudimentary fractal patterns catch much more signal than far bigger conventional shapes.

 

[coonmanx]

Interesting. I'm wondering how well a fractal antenna would work with FM. The sites I visited only mentioned it as it applies to a TV signal.

I'm hooked on cheap rabbit ears which I then hook up to coax and the 75 ohm inputs on the tuner. The ones that I use are cheap $5 Trisonic rabbit ears that you can get off of the Bay. I just put them up on the wall in an appropriate location (at least the best location I can find indoors in an apartment). Then it is easy to run coax to the tuner.

I have one college station that comes in with a fair amount of static on sunny days but comes in clear on cloudy days like today. Sometimes it seems that if the weather is bad the reception is good. That particular station has their broadcast antenna mounted on the ground so the signal is most likely bouncing off the low clouds and improving reception on my end.

 

[IraGress]

I'm not really sure exactly how well TV antennas work on FM, to be perfectly honest. I have used them on my receivers and they always work wonderfully, but then I always live in or near big cities so I don't honestly know how far they are reaching, only that I get every known station in the entire metro area.
I've sifted thru a bit of mind-boggling gobbledy-gook on antennas. The deeper I went down that rabbit hole the more Greek it all became.
But if I had to try to piece it together I would have to guess that analog television signals were more sensitive to design and direction than FM.
Hell, for long distance FM reception I might just try tying 30ft of wire to an arrow and shooting it up the nearest tree just to see what happens.
But it's really all theory on my part.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, somebody.

 

[coonmanx]

Well most rabbit ears antennas are also tuned to the FM band unless they have some sort of filter (which is unlikely on a $5 antenna). So that is why I like them. They are easy to tack up on the wall, can be adjusted and work quite well.

I guess that a person would have to just try to use a fractal antenna and see if it works any better but I have my doubts. But who knows? Since I have no first hand experience with them I can't make any judgment. In the end there is only so much that one can do with an antenna. It's not magic.

 

[mhardy6647]

FM is smack dab in the middle of the old VHF transmission spectrum (between channels 6 and 7). A TV (VHF) Yagi will work decently well for FM although I think it typically has only one driven dipole element (pair of elements, I guess?) tuned to the right frequency. The FM Yagis sold by Winegard, Channel Master, etc. are all better choices but they need to be up high (and they're very directional) for best results. They're also a little too big to just use as part of the room's decoration ;-)

I use a little set-top Radio Shack amplified antenna in the living room in MA on the (mono) Sherwood to good effect - a good 40 miles NW of Boston. I also use a very similar Terk antenna on a stereo Yamaha tuner in the family room in MA to good effect for the "local" (Boston) public radio/college stations. Don't really listen to anything else any more (except, occasionally, the old WCRB - now part of WGBH - whose antenna is now, if memory serves, in Lowell, MA).

At any rate, I wouldn't write off the little set-top amplified antennae for even fringe-y applications - but it'll depend on a lot of things.

It's atop the little shelf unit in this photo.

BTW, the earlier comment about amplifiers amplifying both signal and noise is spot on; amplifiers are no panacea.

 

[coonmanx]

One reason that I like the rabbit ears so much. They aren't the prettiest thing but are quite easy to tack up on a wall with a few cable clips. Run the coax and done. Good thing I don't have a wife to tell me that the antenna on the wall is ugly.

 

[mhardy6647]

Oh, FWIW and at the moment I have an even somewhat cheezier R/S powered antenna on the hifi in the new room Found this antenna at... my favorite local emporium, so the price was right!

 

[Littletoot]

Magnum Dynalab, in Canada, makes FM antennas. Their tuners are second to none, so I imagine their aerials are worth a look. Cheers.

 

[JBL GUY]

QUOTE=mhardy6647;6664103]FM is smack dab in the middle of the old VHF transmission spectrum (between channels 6 and 7). A TV (VHF) Yagi will work decently well for FM although I think it typically has only one driven dipole element (pair of elements, I guess?) tuned to the right frequency.

Just to be clear, because there always seems to be a lot of interest in FM antennae...

Not exactly. TV channel 6 stops at 87.5MHz and channel 7 TV does not start until 174 MHz, the FM band is not exactly smack dab in the middle.

One is VHF low band (TV channels 2 to 6) and the other is VHF high band. With the VHF high band (TV channels 7 to 13) starting at 174 MHz. There is no need to build any lower frequency coverage into the VHF high band part of the antenna.


Since over the air TV has gone digital, TV antennae labeled as digital will be UHF only or UHF/HIGH BAND VHF (starting at 174 MHz) and will have little if any gain (more likely loss) at the FM broadcast band frequencies.

The center frequency for TV channel 6 is about 85 MHz and an antenna element for that frequency would be about 69.4 inches.

The center of the FM broadcast band is 100 MHz and an element for that frequency would be about 59 inches.

So the the shortest element on a VHF low band TV antenna will be about 7 to 10 inches to long to be resonant, to have the proper feed point impedance and provide the needed gain.

In general there will not be any elements "tuned" to the FM broadcast band.

And the element spacing which is one of the determining factors in antenna gain and pattern and is based on about 0.2 of a wavelength at the operating frequency, would not be correct.

Given the fact the FM broadcast band inference to TV channel 6 was a concern in the analog TV days, most TV antennae manufacturers did not go out of there way to build TV antennae with any appreciable gain on the FM broadcast band.

The main reason that outdoor TV antennae seem to work for the FM broadcast band is because they are outside and up in the air.

From Winegard's FAQ page

Question:
I am interested in purchasing a Winegard vhf/uhf/fm antenna model HD7082P. I am planning on using this antenna on my analog TV with a digital converter. Can I hook up this antenna to my stereo to improve my FM reception as well?

Tech Tip:
Yes you can use this antenna for FM reception. However you will not receive as much FM signal from a TV antenna as a true FM antenna such as the model HD-6000 or HD6055P.

The HD-6000 is a small 4 element beam rated at IIRC only 4 dB of gain, so if the TV antenna has less gain on FM, it can not have much.

BTW, Winegard's data sheet for this antenna does not list it as an FM antenna.

If one already has a TV antenna that includes the VHF low band TV channels it is OK to try it for FM reception, but if one is going to go the the trouble and expense of installing an antenna for the FM broadcast band, it is much better to use a purpose designed FM antenna.

A few area specific antennae were manufactured and may have included some gain on the FM broadcast band. The only way to tell is to measure the antennae elements on the VHF low band portion of the antenna.

BTW, a lot of the older style combination VHF low band, VHF high band, UHF antennae were not Yagi-Uda designs, but were Log Periodic Array antennae, with multiple driven elements.

Indoors or outdoors, there is no substitute for full sized antennae that are resonant at the frequencies of interest.

 

[JBL GUY]

There has also been some mention of the Fractal antenna.

They function as close spaced multiple dipoles, but not so close as to cause the multiple dipoles to function as a single element.

The magic in these antennae is in the fractal pattern and the "fill" of the fractal area.

These are the things that control the performance of the fractal antenna.

There is not a lot of readily available antennae modeling software for these antennae, since it is a patented design.

 

[Bozzmonster]

For a quick, easy and effective indoor FM antenna, I prefer a half-wave dipole. Mount it in the center of the room (or 'looking' at open room space towards your desired stations) and mounted at ceiling height, you'd be surprised at the reception you'll get.

At my old house, I took one, stretched it across a piece thin piece of wood, then mounted that on a small swivel attached to the ceiling in the room. I could turn it in any direction. Worked great!

 

[KevinCorr]

I have tried a lot of different Rabit ears powered and not with limited success. I have a better non powered one from Metz: http://www.metzcommunication.com/am-fm.htm
Magnum Dynalab sells a similar one.

I just went to Radio Shack and got an Antennacraft "FMSS Omni-Directional FM Antenna".
http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasFM.html
This is intended for outdoors but so far I am using it inside. It is the best indoor antenna that I have tried so far.

I have not had time to put up the outdoor antenna recommended in this thread: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=460568

I have an antenna on the house installed by my internet service. I tried it for fm and it works pretty good but not better than the Antennacraft FM.
http://www.digitalantenna.us/5-2814..._Antenna_Optimized_for_Digital_Reception.html