I think you are getting it figured out. Just double check everything. We all order at least two times on our first try. Wait until you restore your first vintage SS receiver with 135 caps, hell, you may order 3 times…
Infinity Reference Five’s - DIY upgrades?
- Thread starter skyegreen424
- Start date
Make sure you circle back and tell us how they sound once you get them all back together. They should be awesome. Btw, if may take some hours of play time for everything to settle down and smooth out.
skyegreen424
brandon
Thank you for all of your help !! I just ordered the parts :-]
I hope they will be awesome ! I'm excited to have a nice set of speakers and I'm learning a ton about this stuff. Will keep this thread updated :-D
skyegreen424
brandon
Forgot to write this but I didn't realize what I thought was a 3.6UF cap is actually a 13.6 UF cap!! here's the combo I ended up going with for that one -
13.6 UF 100V unknown *** - 1x Dayton Audio DMPC-1.5 1.5uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor + 1x 12uF 100V Electrolytic Non-Polarized Crossover Capacitor = 13.5 UF (im assuming this is fine cus the original cap is 10% tolerance)
Hope this helps !
13.6 UF 100V unknown *** - 1x Dayton Audio DMPC-1.5 1.5uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor + 1x 12uF 100V Electrolytic Non-Polarized Crossover Capacitor = 13.5 UF (im assuming this is fine cus the original cap is 10% tolerance)
Hope this helps !
The Dayton’s are fine general quality. You are pushing string when you start buying exotics. Bypassing the electrolytics with a decent quality gives you the best of both worlds
skyegreen424
brandon
pointless update -
i started to clean off the old foam on one of the mids and my hand slipped and cut through one of the cones 8-[ i’m sure i’m not the only one but it still sucks
i think this is a blessing in disguise though, because one of the plastic rings around the mids was cracked clean in half and would have looked like shite if glued together and put in!! i ended up ordering an original infinity driver with matching part numbers on ebay, glad i don’t have to replace both woofers x-D
guess this means i won’t be doing any refoaming until the new old driver comes in !
i started to clean off the old foam on one of the mids and my hand slipped and cut through one of the cones 8-[ i’m sure i’m not the only one but it still sucks
i think this is a blessing in disguise though, because one of the plastic rings around the mids was cracked clean in half and would have looked like shite if glued together and put in!! i ended up ordering an original infinity driver with matching part numbers on ebay, glad i don’t have to replace both woofers x-D
guess this means i won’t be doing any refoaming until the new old driver comes in !
Just my 2 cents -use better caps then Dayton/Bennic poly's.
Better off just using stock type electrolytic IMHO sound wise then Dayton poly/ film caps.
Clarity cap CSA is a good entry level cap-that's essentially neutral like most decent electrolytic caps-check Madisound.
These speakers are worth splurging a bit on caps.
Never had much luck with bypass caps-some really seem to like them-never heard a difference- unless your up to at least 1/3 mix of the total capacitance value.
But then it's a mix-not bypass per se.
Just my experience, if your budget means going to go with Dayton poly/film caps- go back to the stock electrolytic type.
The Daytons don’t sound right in any speaker I’ve used.
A good way to experiment is redo one speaker with the stock electrolytic type caps
The other with Dayton polys.
Give the speakers a month to break in
Then draw a conclusion.
Each time I tried, you get a really good dose of the sound characteristics of the Dayton polys.
If you simply recap all speakers will Daytons you may never realize the difference both speakers you may never realize the difference.
And that you quite possibly’s took a step backwards
Believe me I was in that same camp for sometime
Better off just using stock type electrolytic IMHO sound wise then Dayton poly/ film caps.
Clarity cap CSA is a good entry level cap-that's essentially neutral like most decent electrolytic caps-check Madisound.
These speakers are worth splurging a bit on caps.
Never had much luck with bypass caps-some really seem to like them-never heard a difference- unless your up to at least 1/3 mix of the total capacitance value.
But then it's a mix-not bypass per se.
Just my experience, if your budget means going to go with Dayton poly/film caps- go back to the stock electrolytic type.
The Daytons don’t sound right in any speaker I’ve used.
A good way to experiment is redo one speaker with the stock electrolytic type caps
The other with Dayton polys.
Give the speakers a month to break in
Then draw a conclusion.
Each time I tried, you get a really good dose of the sound characteristics of the Dayton polys.
If you simply recap all speakers will Daytons you may never realize the difference both speakers you may never realize the difference.
And that you quite possibly’s took a step backwards
Believe me I was in that same camp for sometime
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skyegreen424
brandon
update:
refoamed everything i needed to and also replaced the capacitors and resistors i could so far (but only on one crossover since i wanna do an a-b test)
i also applied the duct seal! also, all the braces are glued in. feels pretty damn solid!! also added some foam onto the rear walls of the mid drivers and big ol woofer.
will be adding the sealing foam and connecting both speakers back up tonight ! will update with results on the cap and resistor upgrade so far :-]
refoamed everything i needed to and also replaced the capacitors and resistors i could so far (but only on one crossover since i wanna do an a-b test)
i also applied the duct seal! also, all the braces are glued in. feels pretty damn solid!! also added some foam onto the rear walls of the mid drivers and big ol woofer.
will be adding the sealing foam and connecting both speakers back up tonight ! will update with results on the cap and resistor upgrade so far :-]
skyegreen424
brandon
sounds amazing - like nothing i’ve ever heard before…. it feels like the speakers disappear when someone in the track i’m playing starts speaking - so spacial. idk if this is placebo or not but man ……
one thing though - I hear a bit of a strange popping or tinny sound from the emit tweeters when a lot of stuff is going on in the sound. i feel like this could be clipping. i have them hooked up to a kenwood v9010 receiver which is rated at 133w for 8ohms, but some research tells me that this isn’t usually so accurate. the emits apparently like clean current so maybe the kenwood isn’t putting clean current out.
i just got a technics sar 477 at a thrift store and am cleaning it up. it’s rated at 100w at 8ohms, which seems like it could be worse than the kenwood. however, it has a “new class a” amplifier, which i’m not sure is marketing or not. could this provide a cleaner signal than my kenwood?
one thing though - I hear a bit of a strange popping or tinny sound from the emit tweeters when a lot of stuff is going on in the sound. i feel like this could be clipping. i have them hooked up to a kenwood v9010 receiver which is rated at 133w for 8ohms, but some research tells me that this isn’t usually so accurate. the emits apparently like clean current so maybe the kenwood isn’t putting clean current out.
i just got a technics sar 477 at a thrift store and am cleaning it up. it’s rated at 100w at 8ohms, which seems like it could be worse than the kenwood. however, it has a “new class a” amplifier, which i’m not sure is marketing or not. could this provide a cleaner signal than my kenwood?
Entirely possible. I hooked up a set of Reference Fours to my friends Sansui 9090(120w/ch @8ohms) and we pushed it into clipping way earlier than I expected.
Looking over the specs on the Technical and I don't think it's going to resolve the issue.
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skyegreen424
brandon
It didn’t really help, but it did cool down the highs slightly. now i’m wondering, god, is it maybe just the music? i’ve been using bohemian rhapsody to test and towards the end when there’s some sort of high notes being played with the electric guitar that makes the emits sound like they’re ringing. turning the source bitrate down makes this less severe. it also appears at all volumes, even low volumes. maybe it’s the mastering?
skyegreen424
brandon
i ****ed up and lost an emit ……. was tightening some screws and dented the diaphragm. i am an idiot
i also need to refoam one of my drivers because i did a poor job aligning one… rats
today nothing is coming up milhouse…… will be jumping on the next emit r listed on the auction site :-[
if anyone knows if there is a way to know for sure if the dent affects sound, please let me know
i also need to refoam one of my drivers because i did a poor job aligning one… rats
today nothing is coming up milhouse…… will be jumping on the next emit r listed on the auction site :-[
if anyone knows if there is a way to know for sure if the dent affects sound, please let me know
Has the EMIT-R stopped working or are you just concerned about the sound/aesthetics of one being "dented". As long as the "dent" doesn't cause the diaphragm to make contact with any other part of the frame them I think you should be ok. If the dent has caused the circuit trace to break then your done.
skyegreen424
brandon
it doesn’t look like it’s making contact with any other part of the frame. I’m just worried about whether or not this is gonna make the sound worse. I don’t think it will though - I took the emits off and their resistances measure the same that they were when I got them.
I also swapped them between each box to see if this sort of high frequency “clipping” followed the driver or not. It does not, as far as I’m able to tell!
The more I listen to these, I think I might be hearing harsh silibance that I’ve never really heard before. Is this just a characteristic of the tweeters? With the tinny sound staying with the crossovers no matter what, I feel like it’s gotta be something else. The acoustics of the room I’m using could be a factor. It has leaning ceilings and pretty much an open layout (one of the speakers right now has a hallway behind it. the other has half of a wall a few feet away from it.) Finally, I wonder if it could be because I still haven’t replaced my 75Uf and 175Uf capacitors. Those are tied to the mid range according to the circuit diagram. This feels unlikely but I wonder if some of the sound is coming from these aged caps…
If you've replaced the cap for the EMIT-R and not the caps for the mids and woofers then the speakers overall can sound overly bright. I've experienced this with other vintage Infinitys, especially ones with poly caps for the EMITs. Before I recapped my Kappa 9s I had to turn down the controls for the EMITs and mids. After replacing all the old NPEs I could turn the EMITs back up to their nominal levels and the balance was much better top to bottom.
skyegreen424
brandon
They sound pretty balanced to me. Looking at the crossover schematics, the only two I still have to replace are the in signal 75UF midrange capacitor and 175UF out of signal capacitor. I noticed that the sibilance like high frequencies come from both the midrange and tweeters. The midrange high frequency is less harsh, but still there. Maybe because both drivers are playing that high frequency noise that’s why it sounds silibant
skyegreen424
brandon
Okay I just double checked - i think it’s the signal cap not being replaced.
I’ve been using Sweet Life by frank ocean which seems to very consistently cause this extremely distinct sibilant sound - pretty much the first 20 seconds sounds harsher than it should be. I unplugged the emit Rs again, to find that the distinct sibilant sound is still coming from the midrange driver even without the emit attached!! So most likely I think my theory was right, and as of right now there’s nothing I can really do except wait for the other crossover caps to arrive…. I was supposed to have them a week ago but they are now back ordered until the end of this month :-[
I’ve been using Sweet Life by frank ocean which seems to very consistently cause this extremely distinct sibilant sound - pretty much the first 20 seconds sounds harsher than it should be. I unplugged the emit Rs again, to find that the distinct sibilant sound is still coming from the midrange driver even without the emit attached!! So most likely I think my theory was right, and as of right now there’s nothing I can really do except wait for the other crossover caps to arrive…. I was supposed to have them a week ago but they are now back ordered until the end of this month :-[
skyegreen424
brandon
and with the emit attached and the mid driver disconnected, I still hear that sibilance. damn….
cheapcuts
Member
Congrats on all your hard work on the ref 5s. I have almost finished a smaller project with my ref 4s. These older cross over designs include black box thingies called circuit breakers ie culver cb1 on the tweeter circuit. Internally they are some kind of spring steel plus points contact that likely corrodes and or loses its spring tension over time. Inside the switch the signal changes from metal to metal about 6 times and 2 of the contacts look to be copper. Removing this and putting a simple copper wire jumper in its place should yield a more relaxed listening experience from the tweeter. A faulty diode is a remote possibility but snip snip and its gone, I also had a static issue that I thought was my soldering or a bad amp channel. turned out to be a slightly loose banana jack. If you don't want to attack the xover goop again; jumper the cb on the bottom of the board with some cat 5 strands might be good enough to smooth out the issue somewhat.
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skyegreen424
brandon
This is one of the stupidest things I have posted online - the sibilance I was noting is just part of the original recording. Whoops. I was having a honeymoon period with that album...
Suffice to say that there's nothing wrong with my emits - I've had the Ref 5's hooked up and kicking for a couple of months and they sound great with pretty much everything I throw at them. Life's good !!
I was wondering what that box was for ! I wonder if I could just replace that part if it's worn out... I'm not sure how comfortable I am letting the emits run without a circuit breaker. Maybe I could install a fuse holder and fuse so that there's less metal to metal contact while still having some protection. Good luck with your Ref 4's, they will sound excellent!! E-)