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Integrated Amp advice for beginner

CDB76

CDB76

New Member
So I've rediscovered a love for vinyl after inheriting my old man's record collection about a year ago. I pieced together a starter system with very limited budget, and now I'm working to upgrade. I began with a Yamaha YP-D4 (Stanton 681eee), Technics su-v8x, and Cerwin Vega D-5's. I switched the speakers to Klipsch rb-5ii's and changed the turntable to a Pro-ject debut iii (Ortofon OM5e), and now I'm looking to upgrade my amp with a budget between $300-$500. There are a couple amps I've been considering, but not sure how to best maximize budget. There's a Creek A50i R ( $300), a Rotel RA12 ($500), or Onkyo A-9050 ($325). I know Creek has great rep, but can't find much info on this particular model (I don't think it's part of the Evolution line) . Rotel seems like it might be a little over priced, but I'm not sure. Any thoughts about these amps? Is integrated the way to go, or should I think about separate preamp/amp set up?
Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.
 
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Welcome to AK. Out of the ones you have shown the Creek is the way I would go , they make solid gear and are highly regarded. It looks like you have the start of a solid setup as well . Integrateds can be as good as seperates as far as sound quality goes , I know because I have an integrated and it sounds better than my separates did . To be fair my Integrated is kind of like separates and is classified as a super integrated but the point is you can have an integrated and it sound as good as separates . Here’s my Musical Fidelity NuVista M3 with my Musical Fidelity TriVista 21 Dac to give you an idea . Good luck with your search .

40E97C1F-5A76-4159-91EC-CF7EB468D627.jpeg

Audiofreak71
 
Thank you very much for the advice. Your system looks amazing. Bet it sounds that way, too. I'm glad to know that sound quality can be just as good with an integrated, which was something I was intuitively hoping for, given my budget. I'm also grateful for all the expertise and knowledge AK offers. So thanks for posting!
 
At the prices mentioned you are talking about used equipment. I own a Rotel RA-12 and think it is an excellent amp for the price. New, I paid $850 for mine. I own 3 Rotel CDPs and 2 of their Integrated Amps, so obviously I like their products. I think they offer great bang for the buck as an entry level audiophile offering. The RA-12 offers the phono section you need as well as a built in Wolfson DAC. 60 WPC has more than enough wattage to power your efficeint Klipsch speakers. There are 2 either co-axial or digital inputs, 2 auxiliary inputs as well as inputs for tuner and CDP. The RA-12 also has Pre-Outs so you could use it as a pre-amp and hook it to a power amp, which I have done in the past.
This amp offers you a great deal of flexability for future upgrades down the road. In my RA-12 I have 2 CDPs, my DISH satellite hooked into the Tuner section, a BLU-Ray player hooked into one of the digital inputs and the output of my tv via a toslink cable into the other. I also hook my Ipad into the front USB input to access my Icloud library, which for a dinosaur like me, is pretty nifty. I like the pairing of Rotel & Klipsch and with some patience you could probably find a RA-12 for a little less. Let us know what you decide to go with.
 
I haven't owned any of your choices, but I took a look online.

First, the Creek does not appear to have a phono stage (from the limited info I could find), so probably you would have to get an external phono stage to use your turntable.

Second in addition to being analog integrated amplifiers, both the Rotel and Onkyo have digital inputs and a DAC, so you can use them for digital audio (e.g. connected to the digital output from a computer or phone). Additionally the Rotel includes a Bluetooth dongle so you can do this wireless.

The Rotel has a small display which is useful for monitoring the status of the digital functions, and the Onkyo looks like it has a bigger power supply and a little more power. But as your speakers are fairly efficient and an easy load, either would be fine.

Both units have an onboard MM phono stage so they will work with your cartridge out-of-the-box, and both are nice looking units.

I think either would be a good choice, and that either would sound fairly similar with your other gear.

Your decision should come down to which looks nicer to you, and whether you want to use Bluetooth connectivity without having to buy something else.
 
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If it were me, and I was upgrading, I'd want a little more power than what the Creek offers. Granted, it's more that enough to drive your high sensitivity Klipsch but what if you decide to upgrade them at some point. You never know when you might run across a killer deal on some low sensitivity, but highly rated speakers and 50W wouldn't be enough to do them justice.

I have a Rotel RX-1052 (100W) that I find to be a little bright, but that could just be my ears, and, comparing it to an older Pioneer I use in the office. It's used mostly for TV audio and for that function it works just fine. I picked up my Rotel, with a pair of good quality speakers, for far less than $500 so the deals are out there. You just have to be patient and persistent. So yes, IMO, $500 is a little much for that one.

Your speakers are small enough that you could take them, and hook them up to whatever amp you're looking to buy. If need be, you could also pick up a used CD player (if you don't have one) at a thrift shop for cheap, if the sell doesn't have a source.

You might also consider subscribing to AK (upper right corner of the home page). For $25 per year, you get access to a few more forums. One of which is Barter Town where members buy, sell and trade equipment (and other stuff).

Happy hunting.
 
Silentnet said:
$500 is enough for separates, and separates will give you much better options so far as upgrading in the future.
Click to expand...

Perhaps true, but the OP asked for advice specifically about three particular units. I think moving to a good quality digital integrated is a very reasonable choice for the first electronics upgrade to a starter system.
 
Most integrateds and separates will have MC phono. However, it's always on the checklist when shopping to check for MC.
 
CDB76 said:
So I've rediscovered a love for vinyl after inheriting my old man's record collection about a year ago. I pieced together a starter system with very limited budget, and now I'm working to upgrade. I began with a Yamaha YP-D4 (Stanton 681eee), Technics su-v8x, and Cerwin Vega D-5's. I switched the speakers to Klipsch rb-5ii's and changed the turntable to a Pro-ject debut iii (Ortofon OM5e), and now I'm looking to upgrade my amp with a budget between $300-$500. There are a couple amps I've been considering, but not sure how to best maximize budget. There's a Creek A50i R ( $300), a Rotel RA12 ($500), or Onkyo A-9050 ($325). I know Creek has great rep, but can't find much info on this particular model (I don't think it's part of the Evolution line) . Rotel seems like it might be a little over priced, but I'm not sure. Any thoughts about these amps? Is integrated the way to go, or should I think about separate preamp/amp set up?
Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Personally, I'd go for a new Yamaha integrated. Those have a very good reputation.

Separates are great, but you'd need to up your budget buying new.
 
Hifiler said:
Perhaps true, but the OP asked for advice specifically about three particular units. I think moving to a good quality digital integrated is a very reasonable choice for the first electronics upgrade to a starter system.
Click to expand...
The OP also asked about separates.

"Any thoughts about these amps? Is integrated the way to go, or should I think about separate preamp/amp set up?"

To the OP:
As another mentioned, with your budget separates are within reach, and they definitely add flexibility most integrated amps don't.

I currently have 5 systems up and running, two with separate components and a third with the integrated only performing preamp duty. The integrated in question is no slouch, but seeing as I had a second Belles amp on hand I decided to make a comparison and inserted it into the system. The Belles is staying where it is, it was a considerable difference in SQ.

This is the integrated. The clean architectural layout of the true dual mono design tells the story, this is a very schveet amp that could be the end game for many, and yet the improvement was not subtle.

ka7300_2.jpg

Here it is in my system with the Belles amplifier below.20181028_164303.jpg

Keep in mind not all integrated amps can be used as a stand alone preamp, this requires it have pre outs.
 
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I don't know the three amps you mention.

Your question: Integrated or separates? I would try answer questions like these. Do you think you will want to tinker again past this amp purchase, or stop there? So what's your end goal for your system? Separates can be easier to tinker with upgrades, but not always. Integrated and separated can come bare bones or loaded with options. Need tone controls? Need built in or separate dac? Separate phono preamp? Might a low output moving coil cartridge be in future? If so, maybe separate phono preamp. Might you buy less efficient speakers later and need more power? How many source inputs will you need?
 
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Wow. Thank you all for such extensive and sound advice. I like the idea of auditiong the amps with my speakers, that way my ears can settle the differences in my mind. I'm going to audition both the Creek and the Rotel this weekend. According to the seller's photo of the creek unit, there is a aux/phono input, but is this a less desirable than phono preamp?
 

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CDB76 said:
According to the seller's photo of the creek unit, there is a aux/phono input, but is this a less desirable than phono preamp?
Click to expand...

If it is labelled "Aux/Phono" then it is a line-level input and unfortunately will not work with your turntable. You would need a separate phono stage.
 
CDB76 said:
According to the seller's photo of the creek unit, there is a aux/phono input, but is this a less desirable than phono preamp?
Click to expand...

Not sure about the Creek you are looking at--never owned one, but I have a Cambridge Audio integrated labelled like that. IME, it means that it is just an AUX input, unless you "upgrade" and add the optional internal phono stage. Some integrateds or pre-amps were sold with or without a phono stage installed, but the optional board was available.
 
Hifiler said:
Didn't catch that, thanks. But $500 would be a stretch for separates not needing any work. But if the OP wants to go that route, there are plenty of people here that could help make it happen.
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Check eBay, I think you'll find it wouldn't be that hard to do within his budget. No it won't be TOTL equipment, but the beauty of separates allows changing out components one at a time as budget allows. One of the reasons in close to 5 decades of being in this hobby I've never owned a receiver.
 
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