Introducing the LE14a Deluxe EconoWaves!
- Thread starter dodog
- Start date
dodog
Addicted Member
You have some beautiful MCM furniture! I'll try to answer, as best I can
I'll have to take measurements when I get home but, just guesstimating, the top of the waveguide to the bottom of the woofer is probably around 22". I don't remember the exact baffle sizes but can measure it all when I'm at home. Off the top of my head, unstuffed, the cabs have 5-6 cubic feet of volume. Port lengths are around 13", I think. I loaded my drivers into WinISD, along with internal volume, then calculated port length with different tuning frequencies. dumptruck is quite helpful with WinISD.
From Wayne Parham (Pi Speakers)
"The outside dimensions of the H290C are 11.63" x 6.56" and it is 0.25" thick. Corners are radiused at 1.6". That's what you would cut into the baffle with a router for a flush mount."
They are bolt-on for use with 1" throat drivers. Found here (no affiliation):
http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/276
skywave-rider took measurements on a QSC waveguide and on the H290C, using a B&C DE250 AND the deluxe top-end crossover (my boards). You can see results in the ewave thread (or look at the link in one of the posts above). The results are very similar.
If I can do it, ANYONE can. Like most things, you just have to jump in and take your time. Even if things don't turn out perfect, that's OK. It's nice to know that YOU did the work, right or wrong, and produced something (and hopefully learned something along the way) that you can be proud of. Anyone can buy a finished product but there is a bit of satisfaction from creating something yourself.
I'll have to take measurements when I get home but, just guesstimating, the top of the waveguide to the bottom of the woofer is probably around 22". I don't remember the exact baffle sizes but can measure it all when I'm at home. Off the top of my head, unstuffed, the cabs have 5-6 cubic feet of volume. Port lengths are around 13", I think. I loaded my drivers into WinISD, along with internal volume, then calculated port length with different tuning frequencies. dumptruck is quite helpful with WinISD.
From Wayne Parham (Pi Speakers)
"The outside dimensions of the H290C are 11.63" x 6.56" and it is 0.25" thick. Corners are radiused at 1.6". That's what you would cut into the baffle with a router for a flush mount."
They are bolt-on for use with 1" throat drivers. Found here (no affiliation):
http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/276
skywave-rider took measurements on a QSC waveguide and on the H290C, using a B&C DE250 AND the deluxe top-end crossover (my boards). You can see results in the ewave thread (or look at the link in one of the posts above). The results are very similar.
If I can do it, ANYONE can. Like most things, you just have to jump in and take your time. Even if things don't turn out perfect, that's OK. It's nice to know that YOU did the work, right or wrong, and produced something (and hopefully learned something along the way) that you can be proud of. Anyone can buy a finished product but there is a bit of satisfaction from creating something yourself.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Thanks, I appreciate the help.
Sounds like it is going to be tight, but hopefully workable. The baffle size for my larger cabinets is 22 5/8" x 17 1/8". Exact measurements for your baffles would be appreciated when you have the chance.
My cabinets are definitely smaller. The smaller ones have a baffle size of 20 1/2" x 18 1/4" with a maximum internal volume of just over 2.5 cu. ft. The larger ones have a maxiumum internal volume of just over 3.5 cu. ft. The actual final volumes will be a bit smaller as I plan to go with a double thick front baffle and add some internal bracing.
I am a complete neophile at this. I have never used WinSD, never designed a speaker cabinet or a crossover and don't even have a clue what dumptruck is. I'll seek help in the appropriate threads when I get to that point.
Thanks, I actually found that same thread yesterday when googling H290C dimensions. Here's some additional info from that thread for anyone else who may find it useful.
"But said in fractional inches, the dimensions are 11-5/8" x 6-9/16" and 1/4" thick.
The H290C requires a 10.5" x 5" baffle cutout."
Absolutely. I bought these cabinets because of their unique style. They are definitely not cookie cutter off-the-shelf speakers that you can buy at the local big box superstore. And, that's the beauty of the econowave - it is so well supported within the do-it-yourself community. That makes it possible for guys like me to have speakers that not only look beautiful, but sound beautiful, too.
Since I am so new to this, I will start by building basic econowaves using the standard parts for the smaller upstairs cabinets. Once I have acquired the basic knowledge and skills (and a pair of LE14A woofers), I'll move onto the more deluxe version for the larger downstairs cabinets.
Thanks again for sharing your beautiful super deluxe LE14a econowaves with us. They look amazing and I'm sure they sound every bit as good as they look!
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
That's very encouraging, because there is no way the larger QSC waveguide, combined with an LE14a, will fit in my cabinets.
markshan
Sir Thrift a Lot
Those look awesome, dog. I was just gifted some Barzilays, but I just put a pair of University co-ax's into them as they were a good fit and sound nice (I'm a big co-ax fan). They live in the basement as I don't have that much room in the house right now. Someday when the kids are grown, one of those bedrooms will become a music room. With my big speakers and Leak amp I am off to a good start at equipping it.
dodog
Addicted Member
You're off to a VERY good start. :yes:
These cabs, most likley, had a coaxs in them. There was a single hole in the old baffle and single port tube as well. I can't speak for coaxs but the waveguide/compression driver on the top-end is one of the nicest sounding mid/high combos I've ever heard. Just amazing detail.
FWIW, my listening rig is in the basement. It's too cold down there for my wife and the kids would rather be upstairs AND they sleep upstairs. It's a win-win-win. These speakers would probably benefit from a bigger room but they sound mighty nice where they are. Super efficient to boot. If I get the volume to a smidge over 9 o'clock (maybe a bit under 7 o'clock starting point) they're LOUD (but not distorted). "Surf's Up" sounds amazing on them. :thmbsp:
2.5 ft³ is just fine for the LE14. dodog's cabinets are a somewhat oversized extended bass tuning, IIRC.
:wave:
Honestly, I'd recommend any completely-measured design other than the "standard" first. I think that one needs to be reworked. There are all the original ones in this thread. You might also want to check out these kits, many of which happen to be designed for 2.5 ft*³ (and most of those would also work in 3.5 ft³ with port adjustments).
dodog
Addicted Member
They'll be here the next time you're in town.
I'll be watching the Boone CL for my bicycle.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
The front baffle of my 2.5 cu. ft. cabinets isn't tall enough to accommodate an LE14 plus waveguide. I've only got 20.5" to work with, so even a 12" woofer, plus a 6.5" high waveguide will make for a tight fit. But, it okks like the front baffle of my larger 3.5 cu. ft. cabinets will work with the LE14 and a 6.5 waveguide.
Ha ha, sorry. I'd spent the previous weekend wading through several threads in several forums and I thought may dumptruck was another simulation/calculation tool. Nice to know you're a real person, and a helpful one at that.
Wow, you just gave me even MORE options to consider. I have read the entire Flex your PCD Mettle thread at the PE web site. Not sure I understood it all, but it did help clear up a lot of questions.
So, what it it about the standard econowave kit you don't recommend? Is it the Selenium CD, the Pyle/Dayton waveguide, the Dayton Classic woofer, all of the above? I was leaning that way for my first project because it is cheap, well documented and pretty much everything except the crossover PCBs can be easily sourced from PE. However, I have never heard ANY econowave type design. So, is there anything in a comparable price range, that will fit a 2.5 cu. ft. cabinet with a 20.5" high front baffle you'd recommend? I'm willing to spend more for better performance, but I'm saving the best (that I can afford) for the larger 3.5 cu. ft. cabinets with the taller front baffle. That's what drew me to this thread (that and the photos of those BEAUTIFUL Barzilay cabinets). I plan to use the LE14s with one of the 6.5" tall waveguides (the tallest my front baffle will accommodate) for my own deluxe version of the econowaves.
None of the above. I think the crossover design needs to be re-done for the "standard" one. I would like to give it a shot myself, but I don't really want to buy the parts, and Zilch didn't leave us with enough measurements to do it without the parts.
As for the best low-price alternative that also fits in your cabinets, you're going to have to research that yourself I'm afraid (and maybe start your own thread instead of using poor dodog's). How much more $$ is the "SR" design from techtalk? You could get some bass from that in your larger cabinet, and at 113dB+, you've got some room for EQ if you want to stretch it deeper.
As for the best low-price alternative that also fits in your cabinets, you're going to have to research that yourself I'm afraid (and maybe start your own thread instead of using poor dodog's). How much more $$ is the "SR" design from techtalk? You could get some bass from that in your larger cabinet, and at 113dB+, you've got some room for EQ if you want to stretch it deeper.
I built some EconoWaves in Heresy cabs using generic Eminence PA speaker drivers and Selenium 220ti drivers and the Pyle waveguides and the Wiredbecker boards. These are my main speakers and opened up a world of low power amp options. There is enough written about these now to make it a no brainer project. The sweet spot is a mile wide.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Thanks, the SR Compact is about $65 - $70 more than the original standard econowave, definitely within my budget for the smaller cabinets. I'll use this as my starting point and move the discussion to the Design Collaborative megathread and let dodog have his thread back (sorry!).
Once I get a little experience, I hope to use dodog's inspiration for a set of deluxe econowaves based on the LE14A and my larger mid century cabinets. I hope they turn our have as nice as his.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Thanks, will do. Looking forward to building and finally HEARING my first set of econowaves.
And, on the lookout for a pair of LE14s for my second set!
I bought these two sets of mid century cabinets before I'd ever heard the term econowave. I'm THRILLED that it's possible to re-purpose these beautiful pieces of furniture into state of the art speakers 50 years after they were originally built. As dodog demonstrated, it's possible to have the best of both - classic, elegant looks and great sound.
Zonker92
All shiny and chrome
Dodog, Happy Fryad. We're looking at copying your build down here for what will be called the (Stev)eWave Project®, using some Altec Santana cabinets (about 3.73 CF gross I think).
So, in addition to the crossover frankenschematic in your first post, and the LE14A woofers, can you confirm that you used B&C DE250 compression drivers and Parham H290C waveguides? Thanks!
So, in addition to the crossover frankenschematic in your first post, and the LE14A woofers, can you confirm that you used B&C DE250 compression drivers and Parham H290C waveguides? Thanks!