Investing in Vintage Stereo - Is This Stupid?
- Thread starter joe_tex
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mister-fixit
Active Member
I tend to agree with your theory. I showed my vintage pieces to my grand daughters and they were NOT really impressed. Besides the physicality ( largeness of the size and the lights ) , there is not much to impress the Iphone generation.
Rise/fall, wax/wane, ebb/flow - whatever - as more thru-the-hole components begin to disappear and subs are harder, the less appeal vintage solid state 70's equipment may have, though collectors will keep those 'Model T's' runnin' on those four cylinders into the next few decades.... Certainly some vintage will hold it's value, but just how much is unforseeable.
As an older guy, I've unloaded most all of my vintage stuff and going Class D amp, a streamer/DAC and music server. Takes up less space, uses less electricity and has a higher WAF..
Investing in vintage audio ? Heck to the no...
DesertRatt
All Bark, No Bite!
The wisdom about any investment in any asset MUST BE BASED on your specific economic condition. Assume for a moment a Rich Guy, and a Poor Guy. Rich guys can buy "assets" like real estate, yachts, ROLEX watches, fine art. The Poor Guy has to build security and stability. He is the one who needs stocks and bonds and steady financial; investments. The Poor Guy can't eat a watch, or get to the job site in a yacht. Those assets won't help him much if he is teetering on the edge of ruin.
FINTECH assets are really boring. Yes, you can stare at your BitCoin Wallet and I suppose derive some pleasure, but it ain't like staring at a beautiful painting on your wall, or playing a vintage pre-war Martin guitar, or enjoying a retro receiver.
YOLO. That's a real thing. If you are invested up to your eyeballs in TESLA stock, but not enjoying life, what's the point? You need enough financial assets to be get along and be safe and secure, but you also need to find fulfillment in the journey of life. I error on the side of hard assets not associated with finance. I'd much rather have the Marjorie Reed cowboy painting than a few shares of Gamestop. But, I can make that choice because I probably have enough financial assets.
FINTECH assets are really boring. Yes, you can stare at your BitCoin Wallet and I suppose derive some pleasure, but it ain't like staring at a beautiful painting on your wall, or playing a vintage pre-war Martin guitar, or enjoying a retro receiver.
YOLO. That's a real thing. If you are invested up to your eyeballs in TESLA stock, but not enjoying life, what's the point? You need enough financial assets to be get along and be safe and secure, but you also need to find fulfillment in the journey of life. I error on the side of hard assets not associated with finance. I'd much rather have the Marjorie Reed cowboy painting than a few shares of Gamestop. But, I can make that choice because I probably have enough financial assets.
When I bought my first audio equipment in the late 60s and early 70s. I also started buying and restoring antique clocks. At the time, people said you can't go wrong with antiques of any kind, no one is making any more of them, etc. I'm glad that I have the clocks, I have the ones that I want, but as an investment, overall they were a wash-out. (I never expected to make money on them, by the way.) My impression is that this is true for a lot of antique furniture, for the same reason: People don't want them as much as they used to want them. My advice is to buy material things because you like them, they are much more risky than the stock market if your goal is to make money.
HTHMAN
Super Member
My kids and grandkids have no interest in my vintage stuff. When I am gone, it will likely be trashed or sold cheap. I think when the baby boomer generation is gone, the equipment will be forgotten. It was part of our nostalgia from the 60s and 70s but means nothing to this generation.
Kodaline
Super Member
I'm financially able to afford a Rolex but I don't wear a watch. I was a Timex Ironman guy from 1990 till about ten years ago when some of the plants in which I work changed their culture to make "Report Nazis" out of any managers on any sort of quality or production item and I got written up by some bozo for walking through the shop with an uncovered watch after I'd just driven 6 hours to that plant and figured, since I wouldn't be closer to the cars than 20 feet, I was ok. Still chapped over that one.
I also hear Sako watches are good. Perhaps I'll do some research.
Kodaline
Super Member
Not every kid is the same; there are some who are interested. It does seem to be part of the greater movement of "collecting experiences over things" which is a polite, and modern day bohemian way of justifying not working very hard by claiming to not need or want anything costly.
It's interesting to watch the retro-Antique Roadshows. Where they replay shows from 10-15 years ago and show what it's worth now. Up until a few years ago, the *today* price was usually higher than the original. Now, today's appraisal is usually lower.
I've also noticed (on CL) that vintage equipment is not selling as quickly, or for as much as it was a few years ago. For several years, if you advertised a decent vintage "whatever", at a decent price, it would sell within a few days (if not hours). Now, not so much. Some of that could be due to the increase in prices over the past several years. What would be considered a good price today would have been outrageous not that long ago. Of course, that's true with many things today, thanks to Covid.
I think that prices for vintage will continue to decline as prices for basic essentials continue to increase. (Perhaps with some of the TOTL, pristine pieces being the exception.)
DesertRatt
All Bark, No Bite!
I didn't understand that part about an uncovered watch?
DesertRatt
All Bark, No Bite!
Vintage is also subject to fads. Not long ago old Polaroid cameras were hit as a pistol. Right now cassette decks are very hot, and vintage guitars of certain brands are very hot. Things come and go.It's interesting to watch the retro-Antique Roadshows. Where they replay shows from 10-15 years ago and show what it's worth now. Up until a few years ago, the *today* price was usually higher than the original. Now, today's appraisal is usually lower.
I've also noticed (on CL) that vintage equipment is not selling as quickly, or for as much as it was a few years ago. For several years, if you advertised a decent vintage "whatever", at a decent price, it would sell within a few days (if not hours). Now, not so much. Some of that could be due to the increase in prices over the past several years. What would be considered a good price today would have been outrageous not that long ago. Of course, that's true with many things today, thanks to Covid.
I think that prices for vintage will continue to decline as prices for basic essentials continue to increase. (Perhaps with some of the TOTL, pristine pieces being the exception.)
Kodaline
Super Member
Sorry didn't mean to get off subject. I work in car plants. Watches are mutilation hazards to car paint so you have to wear a wristband over them. Too much trouble for me, so I don't even wear one anymore.
This has been an interesting read so far. Funny how some things have there day then drop drastically like the case of many antiques such as furniture. My Mother's silverware, well it's worth what it's worth melted down. Her beloved Drexel dinning, could hardly give it away, the wonderful baby grand piano was lucky a couple paid to have it moved to their house. I have lived long enough to know these things and things like them will have their day again down the road, how far who knows. My wife and I have come to believe you buy what you like and love and forget the investment side of things and replace that with enjoyment instead. It matters little to me that my Pioneer SX-1250 costed a chunk new then the black gear came along and it was worth very little and now it has over the years gotten really high. What it has done is serve me well along with it's fellow devices. Somethings are investments and others are hobbies, should you get the two confessed and allow emotion in it can be a volatile mixture that can burn you.
JohnT123
Super Member
To me the biggest problem is that people are now asking real money for broken stuff. The only way I can get decent gear is to get it broken and restore it. Not to flip, just to use and enjoy. I won't spend a couple hundred for a middle of the road piece when the seller say "great condition and highly collectable, only the left channel is dead". If it's broken I want to pay a rate that reflects the risk I'm taking.
I have a couple vintage guitars. If I was to repaint my 54 Gibson Les Paul the value would change by at least 10K. If I change a pot or cap, another much smaller discount would come into play. Audio gear doesn't seem to play by the same rules. Imagine if I tried to sell my guitar and said "All original just needs the broken neck repaired". I would get buyers for sure but they'd be offering pennies on the dollar.
I have a couple vintage guitars. If I was to repaint my 54 Gibson Les Paul the value would change by at least 10K. If I change a pot or cap, another much smaller discount would come into play. Audio gear doesn't seem to play by the same rules. Imagine if I tried to sell my guitar and said "All original just needs the broken neck repaired". I would get buyers for sure but they'd be offering pennies on the dollar.
IMO its the buyers fault for paying the prices,not the sellers that are asking the prices. If someone offers a piece for decent price,there will be others that offer more to buy it out from under someone.
DesertRatt
All Bark, No Bite!
I/m pretty involved in vintage acoustic guitars having collected a stable of about 8. Guitar buyers don't want ANY mods, refinishes, changes, nuttin'. They want every scratch, ding, scrape and claw mark that has collected over the decades. Patina, character, mojo, whatever you call it, that's what they want.
quiet
Addicted Member
If an old item can't compete with what's available new or it's not art then it's subject to fad and wild price drops. A lot of people think the old receiver sound does compete with the new stuff at this period in time. Others find it to be art. And some both. So, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Last year I bought a low hour 2 wheel drive 80hp diesel 1980 Allis Chalmers backhoe for 5k. Current models are 75k. With few differences the old hoe does exactly what the new one does. The relevant differences are price, depreciation, no plastic parts, and NO computers/emissions. The old is competitive to the new. I imagine I'll recover my 5 k when I'm done with it. Next year or next decade.
I'm thinking the old receivers will die off faster than the price will drop.
Last year I bought a low hour 2 wheel drive 80hp diesel 1980 Allis Chalmers backhoe for 5k. Current models are 75k. With few differences the old hoe does exactly what the new one does. The relevant differences are price, depreciation, no plastic parts, and NO computers/emissions. The old is competitive to the new. I imagine I'll recover my 5 k when I'm done with it. Next year or next decade.
I'm thinking the old receivers will die off faster than the price will drop.
RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
No doubt... value is a difficult thing to account for. One particular vintage piece can be a great performer and still not be valued that high. Even something that commands a very high price in one spot, say a specialty vintage hi-fi market can be ultimately worth only a fraction of that if it's being sold by someone at a garage sale in the middle of nowhere who's moving the next day and needs cash in hand today. A lot of vintage hi-fi pieces might honestly not represent a great value, if they're priced at the going rate for a collector's market, but they might be a great buy, better than just about anything new at the same price, if they happen to be sold elsewhere by folks who aren't expect to get anything like the collector's value for it.
The point for me is that if you are able to be patent and comb the ads and wait for the deals, it's possible to find old gear that's better for the dollar than just about anything new. If you're talking monetary investment I'm not so sure, as that market is really speculative and it's difficult, if not impossible to know if the kinds of pieces that are most valued now haven't hit the top of the market as far as price. Those kind of pieces too are the most difficult ones to find for a bargain. I'd think that reliably making money from trading in stereo gear is only possible if you're someone who really knowns how to work on the stuff and can buy pieces that need repair for nothing and then sell them as restored.
Buying really nice old gear that you can find at bargain prices is a good investment in the sense that you'll use and enjoy it and save money, so that you have more money to spend on other stuff at the end of the day...
THF2
Where we are going, there are no roads
Consider the demographic of the people who are interested in this, combine it with the tribal knowledge on how to fix/handle/work this equipment then, add in the nostalgia that it brings and finally, the listening habits of these folks: the vintage equipment that we have has the greatest value to us.
Unlike vintage musical instruments-books-cars-art work, vintage electronics and speakers of this date range (~ 1960 - 2000) are very specific to our demographic. Unless there is some aesthetic appeal (think B&O), this will likely pass with us.
The gift that we were given was that we relived it from whence it came. We had the opportunity to remember “the place that I bought it from” or “the first time I heard a specific song”, etc. etc. later generations will not be as fortunate.
so, to answer the OP’s original question, this is not an investment vehicle.
Rather, it is of the greatest value ( as has been mentioned many times in this thread) to those in the know!
Unlike vintage musical instruments-books-cars-art work, vintage electronics and speakers of this date range (~ 1960 - 2000) are very specific to our demographic. Unless there is some aesthetic appeal (think B&O), this will likely pass with us.
The gift that we were given was that we relived it from whence it came. We had the opportunity to remember “the place that I bought it from” or “the first time I heard a specific song”, etc. etc. later generations will not be as fortunate.
so, to answer the OP’s original question, this is not an investment vehicle.
Rather, it is of the greatest value ( as has been mentioned many times in this thread) to those in the know!
RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
I'm not going to speculate... but I think that it's quite possible that you could be wrong. Though the demographic of folks who really care about audio is small and those that care about vintage audio even smaller still, I think that it's possible that the old stuff that the old folks that you're talking about value, could be valued by the young as well. After all, much if not most of the resurgence in the vinyl medium is due to young people. Sure, us older folks can have nostalgia for the old stuff, but young folks can have a kind of "imagined nostalgia" for an era that they weren't alive for. I was born in the 60s and yet I have a certain love for lots of film, music, fine art, etc that came out in the 50s, before I was born...