The audio hobby would not be my first pick if it was a choice between food on the table and buying a turntable/records. Advise you have a reasonable amount of disposable income for your toy time budget. As far as anyone purchasing a Crosley and the like I suspect their expectations if they have any are pretty low. Like most fads the analog revival will lose steam and the Crosleys/ATs etc will end up in thrift shops or dumpsters and the mistreated records in the dollar bins.
Is Crosley a problem for Vinyl revival?
- Thread starter NJguy
- Start date
zoombrewer77
Tinnitus Maximus
Pretty extreme. I love
Mine was free. This may not be normal.
Other than that, there’s a huge gulf between a $40 suitcase table and a $500 DD solid hunk of aluminum and rubber. Resale value be damned.
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
Well, I checked out The Guitar Center website for prices and a well used and an rebuilt SL-1200 is going between $450 and $600. But the real lesson in economics comes when you sell the SL-1200 with the Guitar Center receipt in hand compared to trying to resell any entry level turntable. Because, no one with good hearing is going to keep an entry table. Then if you do resell an entry table, how much of your investment of funds are going to recover ????
Then contrary to popular belief, a carefully well modded SL-1200 will sound astoundingly well for the amount of money invested over time and the amount information to do so is staggering. Compared to buying an entry turntable, selling it and loosing money, then buying a better mid-fi turntable later on, the cost of doing so is almost double compared to owning an OEM SL-1200. Then when it comes to affordability, it’s called saving money so you don’t waste your money and spending your money carefully, which is opposite of impulse spending. Then there is the question of any table from entry level origins no matter what level ever sounding as good as a carefully well modded SL-1200 with an SME tonearm.
Then think of the people going on their second entry level turntable because the first one broke right after the warranty ran out !!!!!
1970zHiFiGuy
Active Member
Crosley designed with a single purpose ~ Designed to take your money.
Trekkie4
Retired Member
Nope, definitely not normal... Either someone likes (or loves) you very much, or they didn't know the actual value of SL-1200 & just wanted to get rid of it. Either way, a great score!
I recently had to let go of my AT-LP120 due to financial reasons, which I had (and used heavily) over the last 2 years. I bought it brand new for around 297 USD & managed to sell it for 223. Therefore, I only "lost" $74 in the process... Not bad for a 2yr old, used "clone" if you ask me, especially considering the warranty just expired, only couple of days prior to passing it on to its new owner.
That being said, I'm not going to argue or dispute Technics build quality, which is obviously far more superior to either Hanpin or Crosley. But again - you pay for what you get... $450 is by far outside my price range for a turntable ... new or used one. Therefore, if you can't afford anything better, I see nothing wrong with "Crosley" or Hanpin clone.
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Djcoolray
Addicted Member
If you have to buy new, you will always be stuck with what you can afford. Then if you can’t be bothered to go out and find a great deal, you won’t own better. Half the people on this site are in the same boat as you and had to look for better quality because they needed better. A year ago I passed of a pair of SL-1200’s for $300. Then, most people learned how to fix electrical components because they couldn’t even afford what you can afford. Turntables are ancient technology, they come apart and go back together, thing is studying the technical aspects of the individual turntable beforehand. Then looking into the past using the internet to find out which turntables in the 80’s and 90’s were the best. Just saying that you don’t have time or you don’t prefer to do this or that is what we all said at one time. There are websites where people just give things away cause they just can’t be bothered.....keep an eye on those websites and resell as much of that stuff as you can. There are no preset values for anything unless you peg yourself as a consumer !
About the only logical explanation for someone purchasing a Crosley, Hanpin etc is ignorance. If your budget is that limited you would be better served by checking the local Craigslist for preowned tables that sell as little as $20 and sometimes even FREE. With a wealth of info on the net you would quickly find yourself on AK and learn there is a wide choice of options that might end up saving a cash starved buyer a good deal of money and ending up with a far superior turntable.
Mystic
We're all born mad
Like everyone and everything else...
I've come to the conclusion over the last year, that nobody tossed away their vinyl quite like they did the giant speakers in the 80s. There are ridiculous numbers showing up at used shops and flea markets. Thrifts are overflowing.
But the turntables didn't make it. You couldn't put them in a box. When the big stereo went away in favor of the tiny satellite systems, the tables didn't have a place to sit. When the 90s came and they stopped putting phono amps in stuff, that was the final nail.
Everyone has records. Everyone now wants to hear their old songs without commercials and ads. The crosley all in one setups solves all these problems.
The vast majority of households today, upon being given a1970s dual, wouldn't have any way to use it.
I think we often forget how much we *enjoy* having these issues. Most folks just want to hear stairway to heaven without using a streaming service.
But the turntables didn't make it. You couldn't put them in a box. When the big stereo went away in favor of the tiny satellite systems, the tables didn't have a place to sit. When the 90s came and they stopped putting phono amps in stuff, that was the final nail.
Everyone has records. Everyone now wants to hear their old songs without commercials and ads. The crosley all in one setups solves all these problems.
The vast majority of households today, upon being given a1970s dual, wouldn't have any way to use it.
I think we often forget how much we *enjoy* having these issues. Most folks just want to hear stairway to heaven without using a streaming service.
Multiplex
Appease my earhole.
That is pretty true.
I think another thing to consider, is that most people didn't have great turntables, even when turntables were a thing. Think of all of the plastic BSRs that were attached to the Morse Electrophonic, Soundesign, and Craig all-in-ones or cheap plastic rack systems that most people had. The majority of these had cheap ceramic carts. Later on in the 80's and early 90's, "better" rack systems by the likes of Fisher, Sharp, Pioneer, Sony, Sansui, Sanyo, and Kenwood, had cheap conical magnetic carts, along the lines of the AT3600 or Sanyo MG-29.
Today, in most of the Crosley lineup above the fold-up Cruisers, you will find the same magnetic cartridges, and similar overall performance to those mass-produced belt-drive junkers of yesteryear.
They were good enough then, they'll still be good enough now. In fact, I'll bet that Crosley's upper end models with an AT3600l can sound better than a low bitrate stream, any day of the week.
Then again, I also agree with those who say holding out for a vintage TT is a better plan. That's how I've always done it. But, it's getting harder all the time. Vintage TTs grow rarer, more expensive, and older every day. The likelihood that they will need work or have a catastrophic failure increases all the time. They are right up my alley, because I'm a tinkerer. They may be less ideal as a gift, or for someone who isn't inclined to tinker. While I would never recommend a Cruiser, other cheap Chinese made MM TTs are a perfect launchpad from which to embark on a vinyl voyage.
gizzyman47
Addicted Member
As a young kid I had a cheap portable battery powered record player that I carried around everywhere, playing my small collection of 45's given to me by my parents. I absolutely loved it. I'm sure that experience contributed to my involvement in the audio hobby today.
I believe that as a person your either predisposed to be a music lover or not. I've spent on gear and music what non-music loving people would consider insane. Those people don't get it and never will. Thats o.k. everyone had his or her "Thing". Music is mine. The cheap player I had as a kid was just a seed that was planted by my parents "unknowingly". My parents were never really into music. Its just something to hear while doing Things!
I would never suggest a Crosley to a newbe, I would try to educate them on better paths to save them from wasting time and money. Possibly getting them to hear a real turntable in a great system to show them the possibilities.
In the end, only they can decide how important music is to them and how far they want to take it. You can lead a hourse to water but you can't make them drink!
I believe that as a person your either predisposed to be a music lover or not. I've spent on gear and music what non-music loving people would consider insane. Those people don't get it and never will. Thats o.k. everyone had his or her "Thing". Music is mine. The cheap player I had as a kid was just a seed that was planted by my parents "unknowingly". My parents were never really into music. Its just something to hear while doing Things!
I would never suggest a Crosley to a newbe, I would try to educate them on better paths to save them from wasting time and money. Possibly getting them to hear a real turntable in a great system to show them the possibilities.
In the end, only they can decide how important music is to them and how far they want to take it. You can lead a hourse to water but you can't make them drink!
Well if you haven't been reading you, as a kid, were ignorant and don't deserve to listen to music (pretty much what the last couple ridiculous pages have turned in to). People on here take Crosley as a personal insult. You have to realize, besides us (AK'ers), there's another 99.8% of the population that could give two shits about sound quality or vinyl maintenance. Crosley is what it is, I'll never bash it.
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moebuster
Super Member
I have a record/"hi-fi" store in nearby Elkmont,Alabama and from what i have gathered almost everyone that comes in and buys records
use some sort of "cheap" record player and of course being a "hi-fi" guy i beg them to spend a few hundred dollars on a "real" starter stereo setup.
not many takers yet but i maintain that I'll sell more records once the "crosleys" are put in the closet....
use some sort of "cheap" record player and of course being a "hi-fi" guy i beg them to spend a few hundred dollars on a "real" starter stereo setup.
not many takers yet but i maintain that I'll sell more records once the "crosleys" are put in the closet....
moebuster a suggestion if you havn't already done it for your record store. Install a really GOOD turntable/preamp/amp/speakers for your customers to listen to while they shop for records. For most of them it will be the first time they have actually heard what analog is capable of. Might plant a seed in a few heads that the cheap Crosley etc isn't measuring up to what they are hearing from your system.
damacman
Resident Psycho
My girlfriend's daughter's boyfriend bought a Victrola all in one for her (the daughter) for Christmas. The daughter (20) kind of suspected she was getting this and told me a few weeks back. Normally, I would've talked to the boy and suggested that he return that and we get her a better tt. Then I started thinking - well something like a Music Hall USB-1 is what I've gifted a first timer in the past (twice actually, and they're nice tables for a first timer) but she has no audio system whatsoever. That has her needing a receiver and speakers at minimum - things she has expressed no interest in owning - where would I put all that crap? So, I let it play out.
Yesterday, I helped her clean a few records (on my Okki Nokki - that's funny in and of itself) and then we plugged the thing in and I showed her how to use it properly. It sounds just awful - 5 octaves maybe. However, that does not matter to her one bit. She sat off to side of its dual 2" full range speakers and marveled - just marveled at this device. It's got bluetooth, an aux in, and can play records at three different speeds. She had never seen a 45 before, so I pulled one out, showed her what the little circular doo-dad was and how it's used to play 45s, etc. Her eyes were lit up and she was smiling from ear to ear the entire time.
She has access to any of my audio systems - no interest other than watching movies. She will listen to her records with me on the system in my sig but cares NOTHING about how they sound. Most of her records are compressed to **** and many have not one single musician playing an instrument of any kind. A few are compressed to the point where my 3BX can barely do anything with them at all. Doesn't matter. Sound quality means nothing to her. Zero. WGAF? Not her. She's a GREAT kid but has no interest in learning about audio systems, their function, why one recording is prized over another, etc. Louder is maybe the only function that she has an interest in.
Here's how I look at it. I started with an Emerson amplified record player with detachable speakers at the age of 5. My dad had a nice set-up (Marantz, h/k, Dual, CV), I didn't give TWO SHITS. If I had a record in my own bedroom on my own system, it was the very thing that I wanted to listen to at that time. Not what dad or mom wanted to listen to. I remember begging him to loan me his LZII record so I could play it on my system - you're not playing my records on your system son - you'll ruin them. Here she is right where I was then. So, this Victrola doo-dad is the perfect tool for her. Will she ever desire better gear? Only time will tell . . .
My bet is that 99% of the population feels just like she does. You can't fight city hall . . .
Yesterday, I helped her clean a few records (on my Okki Nokki - that's funny in and of itself) and then we plugged the thing in and I showed her how to use it properly. It sounds just awful - 5 octaves maybe. However, that does not matter to her one bit. She sat off to side of its dual 2" full range speakers and marveled - just marveled at this device. It's got bluetooth, an aux in, and can play records at three different speeds. She had never seen a 45 before, so I pulled one out, showed her what the little circular doo-dad was and how it's used to play 45s, etc. Her eyes were lit up and she was smiling from ear to ear the entire time.
She has access to any of my audio systems - no interest other than watching movies. She will listen to her records with me on the system in my sig but cares NOTHING about how they sound. Most of her records are compressed to **** and many have not one single musician playing an instrument of any kind. A few are compressed to the point where my 3BX can barely do anything with them at all. Doesn't matter. Sound quality means nothing to her. Zero. WGAF? Not her. She's a GREAT kid but has no interest in learning about audio systems, their function, why one recording is prized over another, etc. Louder is maybe the only function that she has an interest in.
Here's how I look at it. I started with an Emerson amplified record player with detachable speakers at the age of 5. My dad had a nice set-up (Marantz, h/k, Dual, CV), I didn't give TWO SHITS. If I had a record in my own bedroom on my own system, it was the very thing that I wanted to listen to at that time. Not what dad or mom wanted to listen to. I remember begging him to loan me his LZII record so I could play it on my system - you're not playing my records on your system son - you'll ruin them. Here she is right where I was then. So, this Victrola doo-dad is the perfect tool for her. Will she ever desire better gear? Only time will tell . . .
My bet is that 99% of the population feels just like she does. You can't fight city hall . . .
That may well be true. Not in my house though.
Both of my sons grew up around vintage gear. Each have commented to the fact, "I spoiled them" ! Seems now they know the difference between just reproducing some sort of sound and quality reproduction. Quit counting the number of times they couldn't wait to tell me about one their friends I know new system. Just how they couldn't come to tell them how awful it sounded. Both have good TT's and borrowed LP's from Dad.
damacman
Resident Psycho
She did not. While you introduced your kids at an early age, like my dad did me, she got introduced to HiFi only one year ago . . . I didn't have any interest in my dad's HiFi until maybe 12 or 13 . . .
What percentage of the population was introduced to HiFi while a toddler or a kid even? Not many now-a-days I wouldn't think . . .
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Trekkie4
Retired Member
Here are my 2 cents...
I was born in 1986, and was raised by my parents who LOVE music. Both in different ways ... dad was the "HiFi" guy, who loved to tinker with his Kenwood components and was the one who always wanted to experiment & change things from time to time. Mom on the other hand is more simpler, and simply wants to enjoy the music here & now, without thinking about technical "stuff" that goes on in the background so to speak. Whenever it's a turntable, tape deck, or mp3, she simply wants the unit to work & play, and not having to worry about stylus tips, platter mats, cassette types and/or amplifiers. In fact, we had a very interesting discussion recently (about the turntables) where I compared one model - Pro-Ject Essential with far more robust & "DJ" oriented Audio Technica AT-LP140XP. I picked the 140 as my personal choice, where on the other hand she picked Pro-Ject. Not because this other one is Hanpin, or because she finds Pro-Ject to be more reliable or better sounding, but because Pro-Ject is simple, straightforward & just "works" straight out the box & without the need of any upgrades. Where for me, someone who likes to tinker & change things on the fly, the ideal choice would be the 140XP, or SL-1200 if I could actually afford one.
So anyway, I grew up with dad's old Kenwood HiFi, which (among other components) consisted of KD-1600 - a typical, Japanese-made budget turntable from around the mid 80s. I remember playing dozens, maybe even hundreds of LPs on that one, and it always sounded great. Eventually our interest for vinyl faded, and the KD-1600 developed some serious issues, to the point where investing any more time & money into it was pointless, so we got rid of it.
To fast forward the story, only couple of years ago. I was in the market for a "new" turntable, and instead of picking vintage & reconditioned, I settled for AT-LP120. Why? Because I liked the idea of owning a brand new SL-1200 look-alike, for the price I could actually afford. And even today, I don't regret my decision of buying one. As I already mentioned couple of times, it really was the best bang for the buck! As for the sound quality, it sounded the same (if not even better) than KD-1600, especially since I had a really nasty hum coming from the Kenwood, because some wiseguy removed the ground wire (which was done professionally, at the HiFi repair shop by the way), so having a quiet LP120 was literally music to my ears!
Was there a better model for me to choose, would I get better results buying vintage instead of new? Who knows... But to me personally, it brought back a lot of happy memories! I know for the fact that it did the same to mom, because she asked me to digitize some of her old LPs into MP3, and she was super excited to play them once again, after 20 years or so. I'm guessing most people feel the same way, or at least share the same (or similar) bond with their choice of music. And that is what "drives" vinyl community forward, INCLUDING cheap(er) turntables.
On the other hand, there are others, mostly younger folks who are only just now discovering the world of vinyl and want to have fun with it. I know for the fact that my mom had a portable, suitcase player back in a day (when she was around 15-16yrs old)! It wasn't made by Crosley or Victrola, but it had a ceramic cartridge with extremely worn stylus that's been chipping off the grooves. She "fixed" the problem of skipping & getting stuck by stacking coins on top of the tonearm
It is all part of the evolution and journey through life IMO, those who are truly interested in vinyl WILL eventually look for something better. Maybe not top of the line, but at least something more decent & reliable. Whenever it is new, or used, reconditioned unit. So overall, I honestly don't see what's all the fuss about Crosley & other similar record players & their bad influence on vinyl society. But that's just my personal opinion, obviously I don't expect everyone to agree.
I was born in 1986, and was raised by my parents who LOVE music. Both in different ways ... dad was the "HiFi" guy, who loved to tinker with his Kenwood components and was the one who always wanted to experiment & change things from time to time. Mom on the other hand is more simpler, and simply wants to enjoy the music here & now, without thinking about technical "stuff" that goes on in the background so to speak. Whenever it's a turntable, tape deck, or mp3, she simply wants the unit to work & play, and not having to worry about stylus tips, platter mats, cassette types and/or amplifiers. In fact, we had a very interesting discussion recently (about the turntables) where I compared one model - Pro-Ject Essential with far more robust & "DJ" oriented Audio Technica AT-LP140XP. I picked the 140 as my personal choice, where on the other hand she picked Pro-Ject. Not because this other one is Hanpin, or because she finds Pro-Ject to be more reliable or better sounding, but because Pro-Ject is simple, straightforward & just "works" straight out the box & without the need of any upgrades. Where for me, someone who likes to tinker & change things on the fly, the ideal choice would be the 140XP, or SL-1200 if I could actually afford one.
So anyway, I grew up with dad's old Kenwood HiFi, which (among other components) consisted of KD-1600 - a typical, Japanese-made budget turntable from around the mid 80s. I remember playing dozens, maybe even hundreds of LPs on that one, and it always sounded great. Eventually our interest for vinyl faded, and the KD-1600 developed some serious issues, to the point where investing any more time & money into it was pointless, so we got rid of it.
To fast forward the story, only couple of years ago. I was in the market for a "new" turntable, and instead of picking vintage & reconditioned, I settled for AT-LP120. Why? Because I liked the idea of owning a brand new SL-1200 look-alike, for the price I could actually afford. And even today, I don't regret my decision of buying one. As I already mentioned couple of times, it really was the best bang for the buck! As for the sound quality, it sounded the same (if not even better) than KD-1600, especially since I had a really nasty hum coming from the Kenwood, because some wiseguy removed the ground wire (which was done professionally, at the HiFi repair shop by the way), so having a quiet LP120 was literally music to my ears!
Was there a better model for me to choose, would I get better results buying vintage instead of new? Who knows... But to me personally, it brought back a lot of happy memories! I know for the fact that it did the same to mom, because she asked me to digitize some of her old LPs into MP3, and she was super excited to play them once again, after 20 years or so. I'm guessing most people feel the same way, or at least share the same (or similar) bond with their choice of music. And that is what "drives" vinyl community forward, INCLUDING cheap(er) turntables.
On the other hand, there are others, mostly younger folks who are only just now discovering the world of vinyl and want to have fun with it. I know for the fact that my mom had a portable, suitcase player back in a day (when she was around 15-16yrs old)! It wasn't made by Crosley or Victrola, but it had a ceramic cartridge with extremely worn stylus that's been chipping off the grooves. She "fixed" the problem of skipping & getting stuck by stacking coins on top of the tonearm
It is all part of the evolution and journey through life IMO, those who are truly interested in vinyl WILL eventually look for something better. Maybe not top of the line, but at least something more decent & reliable. Whenever it is new, or used, reconditioned unit. So overall, I honestly don't see what's all the fuss about Crosley & other similar record players & their bad influence on vinyl society. But that's just my personal opinion, obviously I don't expect everyone to agree.