Is it possible to be a budget audiophile
- Thread starter Chandos
- Start date
Sure, it's fairly easy to be a "budget audiophile". Everybody's budget is different and everyone's definition of audiophile level gear is different but I think one could put together a very satisfactory system for $1000 retail and half that buying used.
My recent living room set-up is a combination of new and used and it's "audiophile" enough IMO:
Marantz PM8004 integrated amp - open box from Vann's $629
Marantz CD6004 CD player - new but discounted to $429 from Vann's
NHT SuperOne speakers - used for $128 shipped from Audiogon
Denon DP-23F with Stanton L737S cartridge and D73S stylus - used $45 local shop
Total: $1231 including shipping
"Audiophile"? yeah, to me it is. "Budget"? For me, yes.
My recent living room set-up is a combination of new and used and it's "audiophile" enough IMO:
Marantz PM8004 integrated amp - open box from Vann's $629
Marantz CD6004 CD player - new but discounted to $429 from Vann's
NHT SuperOne speakers - used for $128 shipped from Audiogon
Denon DP-23F with Stanton L737S cartridge and D73S stylus - used $45 local shop
Total: $1231 including shipping
"Audiophile"? yeah, to me it is. "Budget"? For me, yes.
sled108
Super Member
Well, Mine Never Did...So, I ended up with an 6 Transistor in Leather...And, the White Ear Plug...
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TerryO
Super Member
Study, learn, trade, bargin and build!
For me, my audio system has become increasingly less expensive, as well as much better sounding. I have a far better system today that cost mere pennies, compared to what I spent nearly 40 years ago.
I just looked over at my system as it's configured right now and I have a little less than $50 (I think?) invested in it. It doesn't sound bad at all, in fact I'm getting ready to add a Lil' Mike tapped-horn subwoofer pretty soon. If I like it, I'll build three more for my listening room, as I already have the drivers and amplifiers waiting to go.
I do have a few irons in the fire that should dramatically change the status of my system if things work out. However, that's (hopefully) in the future, so there's no sense talking about it now!
BTW: My first audio system was a crystal radio that I built as a kid in the mid-50's!
(Update: My radio worked very well as soon as I found a good place for the cat whisker)
For me, my audio system has become increasingly less expensive, as well as much better sounding. I have a far better system today that cost mere pennies, compared to what I spent nearly 40 years ago.
I just looked over at my system as it's configured right now and I have a little less than $50 (I think?) invested in it. It doesn't sound bad at all, in fact I'm getting ready to add a Lil' Mike tapped-horn subwoofer pretty soon. If I like it, I'll build three more for my listening room, as I already have the drivers and amplifiers waiting to go.
I do have a few irons in the fire that should dramatically change the status of my system if things work out. However, that's (hopefully) in the future, so there's no sense talking about it now!
BTW: My first audio system was a crystal radio that I built as a kid in the mid-50's!
(Update: My radio worked very well as soon as I found a good place for the cat whisker)
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Rowrbazzle
Active Member
I'm a proud budget audiophile. Always have been, always will be. Partly a matter of circumstance -- low-paying jobs, sporadic unemployment, kids to raise, help with college...and then, before I knew it, retired and on a fixed income. But I like the challenge also.
Exercise patience and diligence. Investigate all the usual sources -- craigslist, thrift stores, garage sales, etc. And let firends, neighbours and relatives (especially older folk) know that you're looking for old stereo equipment. You'd be surprised what some people have kept in their attics or basements for the previous 20 years. Oh, and when you do find something that looks promising, AudioKarma is a great source of information. I always google everything I see in craisglist or the equivalent and sometimes when I find something at a garage sale or in a thrift shop, I'll pretend that I need to go to the bank, have them set it aside for me and then go home and see what AudioKarma members have to say about it. I've saved myself a lot of grief that way -- avoiding equipment that looked pretty but was, by membership consensus, not worth buying.
Get handy, if you aren't already. Learn how to do simple cleaning and repairs -- such as refoaming speakers. Invest in some cleaning fluid. Sometimes you can get equipment cheap because it has minor, annoying problems that people don't know how to fix -- or can't be bothered. Also, see if you can find a cranky old audio repair guy in your area. Old-time audio technicians, who really know vintage equipment, are golden. And they often work out of their homes or in funky old shops, so they don't have much overhead. I found a guy in a nearby town who asks for a $40 deposit on everything I bring him, and sometimes he gives me money back when I come to pick up the equipment. He has replaced switches, capacitors, resistors, lubed, oiled and "unfroze" a very complicate automatic turntable, even designed new crossovers for a pair of vintage German speakers. If you can find someone like that, you can take more of a chance when something comes your way.
Your amplifier is better than anything I have. I think that it's a great foundation for your system. Beyond that, just make sure that everything you have is in good repair and performing to its maximum capabilities. Then decide where the weak links are in your system and start looking for upgrades. A turntable is obvious -- since you don't have one. And a proper preamp wouldn't be a bad idea.
My gear is nothing special, but it sounds good to me. I actually have four systems set up right now -- office, family room, living room and garage. In my office, where I am now, I have a Luxman L-215 amp that I got for $40, a Luxman CD player (DZ-122) that someone gave me because it skips for 30-40 seconds before it warms up (someday I'll get it fixed, but I'm in no hurry), a very nice Sony PS-X60 turntable that I swapped for a crap surround sound amplifier that my sister gave me several years ago, a big Akai tape deck (GXC-730D) that I found at a thrift store for $20 and a pair of JBL bookshelf speakers that I bought at a yard sale for $25.
Elsewhere, I have several mid-range, 35-50 wpc vintage amps and receivers -- Yamaha, Akai, Pioneer, Sansui. I didn't pay over $40 for any of them. In the family room I have a big Nikko Alpah 220 power amp that I paid $50 for, with a Rotel preamp that was a freebie because I saw it on a shelf in a basement when I went to pick up a Yamaha receiver (CR-450) for $35 and the elderly seller (whose deceased husband had owned an audio shop) didn't even know she had it or what it was for. I have some promising speakers in the garage that were either given to me or that I got for $5-$10 because they need refoaming. Those are winter projects to keep me busy. The only "big name piece of vintage equipment I have is a Marantz 2240 receiver that I got for next to nothing because it was covered with mould. My audio tech guy got it running for $30 and I've been scrubbing and deodorizing it off and on for the last several months. I also sanded down and oiled the wooden cabinet, so I think it's about ready to go back into service.
So there you have it....
Exercise patience and diligence. Investigate all the usual sources -- craigslist, thrift stores, garage sales, etc. And let firends, neighbours and relatives (especially older folk) know that you're looking for old stereo equipment. You'd be surprised what some people have kept in their attics or basements for the previous 20 years. Oh, and when you do find something that looks promising, AudioKarma is a great source of information. I always google everything I see in craisglist or the equivalent and sometimes when I find something at a garage sale or in a thrift shop, I'll pretend that I need to go to the bank, have them set it aside for me and then go home and see what AudioKarma members have to say about it. I've saved myself a lot of grief that way -- avoiding equipment that looked pretty but was, by membership consensus, not worth buying.
Get handy, if you aren't already. Learn how to do simple cleaning and repairs -- such as refoaming speakers. Invest in some cleaning fluid. Sometimes you can get equipment cheap because it has minor, annoying problems that people don't know how to fix -- or can't be bothered. Also, see if you can find a cranky old audio repair guy in your area. Old-time audio technicians, who really know vintage equipment, are golden. And they often work out of their homes or in funky old shops, so they don't have much overhead. I found a guy in a nearby town who asks for a $40 deposit on everything I bring him, and sometimes he gives me money back when I come to pick up the equipment. He has replaced switches, capacitors, resistors, lubed, oiled and "unfroze" a very complicate automatic turntable, even designed new crossovers for a pair of vintage German speakers. If you can find someone like that, you can take more of a chance when something comes your way.
Your amplifier is better than anything I have. I think that it's a great foundation for your system. Beyond that, just make sure that everything you have is in good repair and performing to its maximum capabilities. Then decide where the weak links are in your system and start looking for upgrades. A turntable is obvious -- since you don't have one. And a proper preamp wouldn't be a bad idea.
My gear is nothing special, but it sounds good to me. I actually have four systems set up right now -- office, family room, living room and garage. In my office, where I am now, I have a Luxman L-215 amp that I got for $40, a Luxman CD player (DZ-122) that someone gave me because it skips for 30-40 seconds before it warms up (someday I'll get it fixed, but I'm in no hurry), a very nice Sony PS-X60 turntable that I swapped for a crap surround sound amplifier that my sister gave me several years ago, a big Akai tape deck (GXC-730D) that I found at a thrift store for $20 and a pair of JBL bookshelf speakers that I bought at a yard sale for $25.
Elsewhere, I have several mid-range, 35-50 wpc vintage amps and receivers -- Yamaha, Akai, Pioneer, Sansui. I didn't pay over $40 for any of them. In the family room I have a big Nikko Alpah 220 power amp that I paid $50 for, with a Rotel preamp that was a freebie because I saw it on a shelf in a basement when I went to pick up a Yamaha receiver (CR-450) for $35 and the elderly seller (whose deceased husband had owned an audio shop) didn't even know she had it or what it was for. I have some promising speakers in the garage that were either given to me or that I got for $5-$10 because they need refoaming. Those are winter projects to keep me busy. The only "big name piece of vintage equipment I have is a Marantz 2240 receiver that I got for next to nothing because it was covered with mould. My audio tech guy got it running for $30 and I've been scrubbing and deodorizing it off and on for the last several months. I also sanded down and oiled the wooden cabinet, so I think it's about ready to go back into service.
So there you have it....
spl225
Super Member
My personal experience is Audiogon has some spectacular deals and Craigslist is mostly BPC. Ebay has tons of BPC also and some good things but they're ususally overpriced to begin with or bid up too high to make sense. You have a much better chance of landing something on Audiogon as opposed to Ebay because there's less competition and the buyers and sellers on Audiogon are typically more knowledgable.
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soundboy
Super Member
Thanks
Looking at the components I have, if I bump the budget up to $500, I can have the below system....
Sherwood RX-4109 stereo receiver $ 60.00
Onkyo C-7030 single disc CD player with Wolfson DAC $180.00 (street price)
Pioneer SP-BS41LR bookshelf speakers $100.00/pair
Energy 8" powered subwoofer $120.00 (from audioadvisor.com)
My under $500.00 system. Again, all new components. Obviously, this system has limitations. However, I think it's something everyone can afford and will do justice to the music.
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sled108
Super Member
BTW: My first audio system was a crystal radio that I built as a kid in the mid-50's!
(Update: My radio worked very well as soon as I found a good place for the cat whisker)
[/QUOTE]
Oh, Lucky You...I didn't Know back then, that you needed at least 50' of Copper Antenna Wire W/Those Glass Insulators...I should have Read the Manual a little Better...
Wait a Minute Here...I was a Good Scout back then...But, I couldn't Make that Antenna Happen...And, That's what makes a Crystal Set Work...
(Update: My radio worked very well as soon as I found a good place for the cat whisker)
[/QUOTE]Oh, Lucky You...I didn't Know back then, that you needed at least 50' of Copper Antenna Wire W/Those Glass Insulators...I should have Read the Manual a little Better...
Wait a Minute Here...I was a Good Scout back then...But, I couldn't Make that Antenna Happen...And, That's what makes a Crystal Set Work...
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AnalogDigit
Realistic fan.
Yes. Just keep an eye peeled at thrift shops, Craigslist, Flea Markets, Church sales, Yard and garage sales. Even price cuts on new discontinued items.
TerryO
Super Member
BTW: My first audio system was a crystal radio that I built as a kid in the mid-50's!
(Update: My radio worked very well as soon as I found a good place for the cat whisker)
__________________
I remember that it was about 50 ft. Luckily, we had a number of trees outside my bedroom window which worked rather well. Other than offering a thumb as a wire hold-down, my Dad made me do it all. I don't think I ever thanked him for that and of course he's gone now.
Best Regards,
TerryO
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I bought a brand new, all-Linn system in the mid-1980's (LP12/Basik Plus/LK1/LK2/Saras--about $3500 then; adjusted for inflation, about $7500 now) on a part-time (25 hours per week, no benefits), $5.00 per hour job. It took three years of scrimping and saving (e.g., no heat in the house, sharing expenses with a like-minded and similarly-strapped roommate), buying a piece at a time, but it was certainly possible, and I used that system virtually unchanged for about the next 20 years.
Of course, you don't need an "audiophile" system to enjoy music. Currently in a small apartment, I get plenty of musical satisfaction from a Denon DP-300F turntable, Marantz PM5004 integrated amp, and Bose 301 series V speakers with stands. The total current price is just $1200--brand new, fully warrantied, easy to find and buy; nothing to have to "luck" into, or to have to clean up, repair, scrounge for parts, etc. It may not be audiophile grade, but unless I get the upgrade bug, even these budget components will likely give trouble-free service for the next 15 years or more, and that translates into some pretty cheap yet satisfying entertainment.
G'day all, much of my audio gear (electronics wise) is DIY using mainly ESP circuit boards and designs. I have saved a lot of money in DIY and built truly high quality gear too.
However the best part of DIY is the 'learning'. Yes, you will make mistakes but that's all part of the learning! Regards, Felix aka catman.
However the best part of DIY is the 'learning'. Yes, you will make mistakes but that's all part of the learning! Regards, Felix aka catman.
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G'day all, speaking of 'crystal sets', this is my 'AM crystal set tuner' that I'm listening to right now listening to the Rugby Union game between Australia and New Zealand.
I feed the audio output into my audio system (in mono, of course). Regards, Felix (vk4fuq) aka catman.
I feed the audio output into my audio system (in mono, of course). Regards, Felix (vk4fuq) aka catman.
Attachments
I appreciate the comments above, but would add that a person is not a fool simply because he buys new product from a local high end store. I was fortunate to work part-time in such a store for about six years starting in the late 1980's. Our customers almost always had budget parameters to work within, and they were definitely seeking the best deal they could get. For them, though, the "deal" wasn't seeing how cheaply they could buy something, it was using the local shops, and both in-store and in-home auditions, to help them ascertain just what kind of system and component choices would meet their particular sonic goals. The "good deal" was knowing that what they were buying would prove satisfying long term, that they wouldn't be wasting money by endlessly swapping gear, hoping to luck into a system that would satisfy them.
I also don't see a problem with denoting some items as "audiophile" while others are not. I consider "high fidelity" sound to be that which comes from components meeting the DIN 45 500 standards from the late 1960's, and that quality of sound can be had from many budget components, new or old. The term "audiophile" I would reserve for companies and components that go beyond just hi-fi. My 1970's BIC, Pioneer, EPI system was hi-fi, but not audiophile; my current Denon, Marantz, Bose system falls in the same category. "Audiophile" gear generally comes from companies like Naim, Roksan, conrad-johnson, Audio Research, Vandersteen, VPI, Ayre, Classe, Harbeth, Quad, etc., etc., not mass-market gear from big-box stores or flea markets.
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6 pages of posts in a day tells you all you need to know about how it can and has been done. Everything you see listed in my signature was obtained through thrifts and CL. What I did not get directly from a thrift or CL was traded for with items I got for from thrifts or CL.
Patience and knowledge are the key. Good stuff does not come up everyday at thrifts or CL but you need to be able to recognize it when it does.
Patience and knowledge are the key. Good stuff does not come up everyday at thrifts or CL but you need to be able to recognize it when it does.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
To me, the term "audiophile" doesn't just apply to the gear one uses. It also applies to the source material you play on that gear. Whether analog or digital, it pays huge dividends to seek out the best-sounding pressings available (On vinyl, this is usually the original 1st-pressing vinyl from the country of origin, which can be found very-cheap at flea markets and such... CD's are kind of all over the map, but there are plenty of bargains out there if you know where to look). Doing this has given me a BIG leg up in the audiophile game. I first got interested in this through a Rolling Stone article that ultimately-led me to the Steve Hoffman forum, back when I first started trying to put together a decent vintage setup. And now that my system is much-better, I have all this great audiophile-grade music to enjoy.
poppachubby
Boo Yaka! Boo Yaka!
I don't think my comments really implied this. The "phools" are simply one segment of the market which help to keep the industry afloat. I was just trying to show that there is some merit in their ways.
I am one of those customers you described - to the letter. Before I had my kids I was in the shops every Sunday. And much like you described, I really got my bearings by checking out all the high end kit.
As far as the whole commercialization of "audiophile", I agree that it should be reserved for high end gear. One of the local stores was advertising really low end sound cards as "audiophile" on the radio. I took it up with one of the sales clerks (whom I am friendly with) and it ended up becoming a huge existentialist debate.