Is this really where we are going?

[gogofast]

it's not just about music, but it's an overall social trend that we're experiencing. faster is better. we try to save every second we can and waste 'em all in doing something meaningless. we don't care about the process anymore - just the end result. cleaning the records, changing the needles, aligning the table, warming up the amp, and etc. - to most, that's just waste of time. we're getting lazier and lazier while making everything work faster and faster because we're not the ones doing the work anymore. i feel the same way about traveling. people only care about how fast we can get from point A to point B while in fact, most of the fun is in between the points. i honestly think that's why today's kids can never learn to appreciate and be thankful for a loaf of bread.

 

[mrt2]

CDs aren't dead yet, but they're in real trouble.

Mass market consumers are by most accounts lazy, unsophisticated and cheap. You have to go to the store to buy a CD. You have to store and handle a CD. If you don't take care of a CD it will get scratched and become worthless. CDs cost 1.5 times as much as down loads from iTunes or Amazon. The music biz in the states has been "singles" driven for over 50 years. Traditional labels have hammered and coerced artists for singles to the point that maybe they have finally killed the golden goose. Mainstream consumers that think buying the Eagles latest exclusively at Walmart is actually good for them are never going to appreciate the story or nuances a complete, cohesive, thematically linked album can provide in any format anyway.

Then there's us. The not so FDH. The few that know and appreciate the difference. We have a vinyl resurgence going on. New music, reissues (albeit with some unevenness) and tons and tons of vintage vinyl coming out of the dust and into circulation. I suggest we enjoy it before the bubble bursts and gobble-up everything in site like we're at the Rio buffet in Vegas.

True. 40 years ago, relatively disposable singles were a big source of income for the big labels, played on cheap, all in one TTs that destroyed the records. Then lps became the mass medium for a relatively short period of time, until the oil shocks of the 70s, at which point the cassette gained mass acceptance, then the cd, and now the mp3 download.

IMO, the vinyl resurgence is temporary, and when it bursts, vinyl will recede and be an even smaller niche product.

The future will be some form of download, though there is hope that higher quality downloads will emerge.

 

[mrt2]

IMO, now is the time to buy cds. Nobody wants them, they sound better than their itunes counterparts, and once they are gone, the record companies will charge us for the right to download uncompressed, cd quality audio. Just buy the cds now and rip them yourself if you want pc based audio.

 

[Mark W.]

I have news for you back in the day say 1972-1982 Home stereos went all that commom. granted I didn't grow up in a big city but in the small town I grew up in I honestly don't remember anthing more fancy then a cheap all in one or a Monkey wards consol. And a couple of the kids I ran with were from upper middle class Doctors, Dentists, Successful business type families.

The first real Stereo System I remember seeing was in College when the asshole across the hall moved in with a Very nice Kenny Receiever and TT setup. I know in our house it would have been played on a mono suitcase mom had or for a short time I had some POS plastic GE TT that was portable powered with D batteries.

 

[70salesguy]

Just one (old) guys opinion

Then lps became the mass medium for a relatively short period of time, until the oil shocks of the 70s, at which point the cassette gained mass acceptance,

I don't recall the price of oil being a factor in declining sales of LPs as much as the combination of the cassette for some and CDs for others.

That said, "Stereo" for most people now is Home Theatre, all in one mini-system or boombox, Bose "Lifestyle" pieces or Ipods and clones.

Practically no one has a component stereo setup anymore, except a few of my "vintage" friends with vintage gear.

I have an iPod myself for listening when flying and I have an interface system that allows me to control it and play it through my vehicles stereo system. I have on very few occasions played it through my vintage system, but it just doesn't compare to other sources for serious listening. All songs on my iPod were loaded from CDs that I own.

Having thousands of songs available is great for portability and convenience when listening in situations other than at home, but reminds me of the expression about those "who know the price of everything and the value of nothing". :scratch2:

Just my point of view from an old curmudgeon.

Hopefully those AKers that see themselves as judges of all that is right and good are taking the day off! :tongue:

 

[donberry]

Practically no one has a component stereo setup anymore, except a few of my "vintage" friends with vintage gear

My kids are 26, 24 ands 19. I just could not wait for them to see my new audio gear, a Spec 1 and a Spec 2 - pretty much each one walked in, listened to my forced upon them demo, said sounds ok, but sure is ugly.....
I gave up at that moment.
I honestly was thinking the Spec gear could be like heirloom pieces - handed own for all to enjoy - too ugly.........:sigh:

 

[titanstats]

Personally, I've come to pretty much hate CDs; they are quickly becoming obsolete as is shown by the lack of CD players on the market, save for 'high end' machines. Don't worry -- FLAC files are wonderful, and 320 MP3s are pretty good too. As market forces push the technology along, digital storage will only get better. I do not miss the clutter of CDs at all; for the ones that I kept, they went into a 200 disk transport, and all is much tidier now. :thmbsp:

It amazes me just how many people are still down on digital music files; they are convenient, can be accessed in a flash, and sound great when done well. Listen to a good setup, then tell me it doesn't sound excellent.

I honestly was thinking the Spec gear could be like heirloom pieces - handed own for all to enjoy - too ugly.........:sigh:[/QUOTE]Well, I appreciate the looks -- could always be my heirloom, if the kids don't want 'em :D. Seriously, I got my tube rig (a thing of beauty) from a very nice lady whose children didn't want it, told her to get rid of it; they'd owned it since new for almost 50 years... :scratch2:

 

[ianj]

I dont think that cd will die; its too common now, and people are happy with the shiny discs for dvd and cd--sure, the mp3/solid state chip technology suits small walkmans and cheap small stereos, car stereos etc.. but for quality, album covers, booklets, ownership, etc.. its always record or cd.

 

[Hifirob2]

I'm way too old school to have an ipod, although I have over 400 CD-R's of mp3's (that I seldom pull out to listen to).

I've never lost touch with my vinyl roots, and my record collection grows all the time - another 100 or so the past two weeks alone.

What excites me now days, is that I buy TT's cheap, refurbish them to become "plug and play", and sell them quickly on Craigslist. I can't keep up with the demand. Every buyer is a young kid (guy or girl) who is mesmerized by a "record", and that it can sound so good. I think local radio station 100.3 that has 'record side Wednesdays' helps a lot. These youngsters are amazed when they come over to try out their new TT, and start asking about my system and my collection. Their eyes light up when a 40 year old Lp can sound so good. They have my phone number, and my email address - and I stress that they can contact me whenever if they have any questions on how something works, or where to go when it's time to upgrade.

I'm converting my main rig in the living room to all 70's silver face gear, and they go nuts over the build quality and the visual impact, and it's not even done yet.

So maybe not all is lost - I remain hopeful. I have to. I want my thousands of records to find a good home when I'm gone.

Nothing against the digital age and instant downloads (portability is not a bad thing), but I try to steer people towards vinyl when I can, because I know how deeply it has enriched my life.

Rob

 

[Dr. Music]

people drift that way and do not even realize it. Is sort of what I did. Like an idiot got rid of all my real good gear at one time. Then picked up all I could afford at the time, a mid level mass market piece of crud. After a while, you start getting used to it, do not even realize just how bad it is.


Foggy memories start coming back to you. All that time you used to spend with your friends, debating for hours over beer why you thought TDK sounded better then Maxell tape.
Dawns on you suddenly just how far you have drifted.
Surely though the memory is not as good as it really was, just like all my old girlfriends were gorgeous.
Still thinking about the talk you had with your son, you decide to get a few pieces of vintage gear, mainly for memory's sake.
On a whim, you buy a Marantz 2216 receiver, just like the very first piece of component gear you ever had, you had your dad buy it for you for your 16th birthday. You think back how your dad thought you were crazy, why get that when for the same amount of money you could get a all in one unit.

Day comes when the Marantz gets to your house. Anxiously, to relive old memories, you hook it up to the computer, to play those mp3's of course.
Fortunately you do still have a pair of HPM-100 speakers.
The VERY moment the sound comes thru your speakers, everything comes flooding back. The sound out of this under $100 receiver just blows away what you have been listening to for decades.
Then, it all comes back, just how far you have fallen.

Next thing you know, the same guy and ear you had re-emerges and you find yourself once again addicted to finding that perfect sound for you.

So, for me, I totally understand how it happens. If you do not have anyone around with a decent system, as time goes by, it is very, very easy to forget what music is supposed to sound like.

Sorry so long

Many of your ruminations describe exactly what I did, Donberry. As the decades passed I 'upgraded' my receivers and CDP's and the likes with bpc, because, well, it was newer equipment so it must be better, right? Then came MP3s, so easy to access as I sat at my computer. After that indulging my love for movies and going the HT route with my TV, and deciding to build my music system around movies a few years ago. To my credit I did buy good speakers for the surrounds I wanted, Paradigms all around and a good Velodyne subwoofer, but I knew without a doubt that a 6.1 setup was NOT good for listening to music.

I decided to find a good old school amp for the Sennheisers I bought myself at Christmas, stumbled into this place and was reminded of all the truly great equipment I had owned, heard and seen in the 70's and 80's. I'm not looking to put together a perfect system, I'm looking to put together a few very sweet small-ish systems that will accommodate my headphones and the music collection I have amassed over the decades. Truth be told I've already done that.... I now own better receivers than I ever owned in the 70's and 80's and I acquired them all for the cost of what one receiver cost me back in the day. Now I want to experience some wonderful amps that I never owned in my youth.

Its easy to fall when none of your old baby boomer friends have their wonderful old systems hooked up any more either.

 

[automojo]

As long as your kids have a appreciation of music-thats whats important. All of us that went through the 70's audio boon have alot of found memories of all that equipment and supporting cast-once in a lifetime for sure-it won't be repeated. We all got swept up in the equipment storm.
But kids reaction to that old equipment should tell you one thing-it's the music that matters-equipment is only a means to a end. Spec1;Spec2-whateever-is more or less worthless without the most important part-music
And yes, for us it makes being able to afford all that expensive gear a heck of alot easier now.
Unless kids start to not appreciate music (I don't really see that on my end) I don't see much of a problem-your parents probably thought the same thing about a different subject- and their parents as well-that's life.

People get too tied up in the details of life, and forget the big picture.

 

[JoeESP9]

It might be where you're going. They will have to drag me. I'll be resisting all the way. One of my great pleasures is to get someone in my sweet spot and give them a demo of good sound. It sounds good to me at least!
Everyone loves the sound and a few love it enough to return and become more involved in good sound.
So, get out of your chairs and intice your friends and neighbors with some good sound. You might get a convert. At the very least they won't think you're so much of a nut case.

 

[Cavity]

How mainstream society works.

In this post, I'm going to quote posts and reply to them, and then I'm going to contribute my two dollars on the issue. Allow me to destroy arguments (if there are)!

Most folks dont care about hifi anymore. People just want to be able to hook their iPod into their soccer mom home theater in a box and not fuss with changing CDs.

people drift that way and do not even realize it. Is sort of what I did. Like an idiot got rid of all my real good gear at one time. Then picked up all I could afford at the time, a mid level mass market piece of crud. After a while, you start getting used to it, do not even realize just how bad it is.
Then CD's came out, who needs vinyl - no cleaning records, no flipping them over, no need to record cassettes....so much easier with cd.
Then after a bit, again, u get used to it as that what everyone around you is doing.
Ahhh, the mp3's come out. What "bliss" - listening to it now on a mass market stereo, so sounds just as good as a cd, maybe not quite as good, but so convenient. Download and go.
Now is so easy to fill up your library with all of the songs you want. Get a 500 gig hard drive and you think you have it all.
Times goes by, you just get used to listening to it, even the mass market stereo starts to dwindle as you only listen to mp3's now - just so proud you have 8,000 songs you like, using Itunes is so easy to get any song you want, instantly.
Then of course you want a surround sound for your tv. used to listening to mp3's for the last decade, why do I need to spend so much, end up picking up a Yamaha Surround for under $400.00.
Ahhh, movies sound so good now. Got my big old Pioneer HPM-100's as the mains, pleasing the wife, plus no ear left, put in those in ceiling speakers so I can hear the jets whoosing by...

Stereo now basically consists of a surround sound receiver and speakers, use your laptop of course for the source.
Isn't technology great.

Then one day you are talking to your son about music. Trying to explain to him why just because they say it is 1000000 watts per channel, that does not make good music.
Foggy memories start coming back to you. All that time you used to spend with your friends, debating for hours over beer why you thought TDK sounded better then Maxell tape.
Dawns on you suddenly just how far you have drifted.
Surely though the memory is not as good as it really was, just like all my old girlfriends were gorgeous.
Still thinking about the talk you had with your son, you decide to get a few pieces of vintage gear, mainly for memory's sake.
On a whim, you buy a Marantz 2216 receiver, just like the very first piece of component gear you ever had, you had your dad buy it for you for your 16th birthday. You think back how your dad thought you were crazy, why get that when for the same amount of money you could get a all in one unit.

Day comes when the Marantz gets to your house. Anxiously, to relive old memories, you hook it up to the computer, to play those mp3's of course.
Fortunately you do still have a pair of HPM-100 speakers.
The VERY moment the sound comes thru your speakers, everything comes flooding back. The sound out of this under $100 receiver just blows away what you have been listening to for decades.
Then, it all comes back, just how far you have fallen.

Next thing you know, the same guy and ear you had re-emerges and you find yourself once again addicted to finding that perfect sound for you.

So, for me, I totally understand how it happens. If you do not have anyone around with a decent system, as time goes by, it is very, very easy to forget what music is supposed to sound like.

Sorry so long

CDs aren't dead yet, but they're in real trouble.

Mass market consumers are by most accounts lazy, unsophisticated and cheap. You have to go to the store to buy a CD. You have to store and handle a CD. If you don't take care of a CD it will get scratched and become worthless. CDs cost 1.5 times as much as down loads from iTunes or Amazon. The music biz in the states has been "singles" driven for over 50 years. Traditional labels have hammered and coerced artists for singles to the point that maybe they have finally killed the golden goose. Mainstream consumers that think buying the Eagles latest exclusively at Walmart is actually good for them are never going to appreciate the story or nuances a complete, cohesive, thematically linked album can provide in any format anyway.

it's not just about music, but it's an overall social trend that we're experiencing. faster is better. we try to save every second we can and waste 'em all in doing something meaningless. we don't care about the process anymore - just the end result. cleaning the records, changing the needles, aligning the table, warming up the amp, and etc. - to most, that's just waste of time. we're getting lazier and lazier while making everything work faster and faster because we're not the ones doing the work anymore. i feel the same way about traveling. people only care about how fast we can get from point A to point B while in fact, most of the fun is in between the points. i honestly think that's why today's kids can never learn to appreciate and be thankful for a loaf of bread.

It appears that a couple of users on the AudioKarma.org forums are not elegant in expression and don't know the facts to how society and psychology work. In order to explain the patterns of 'mainstream society' and consumer audio, I have to break it down to psychology.

People work on a basis - what is there and available to them in the first place. What is available to them in the first place are the technologies consumers are surrounded with! Portable digital media players, pay-per-download services, and digital audio. In addition, the average are aware of the inconveniences that can be seen in consumer formats, nevertheless, they are apathetic unless the wise men embark and create new technology that solves the inconveniences and problems from the formats prior. The problem that is abundant the most is work and time, and when a stimulus surrounds the age consumers are in, the wants and needs are fulfilled, and simultaneously, they take it for granted. Why? Because it's there! And it's all about marketing!

According to the Gregorian calendar, the year is 2009. The latest audio technologies that come to mind have been typed and form an appearance in the first paragraph of this post. Analogue audio, nevertheless, is not 'popular' in the mainstream society of today. There is a logical explanation for this cause. Analogue audio and digital audio consumerism can be compared to human sociability at school. Digital audio is the popular fad and analogue audio is not popular. If this happens, a group is threatened by their sense of selves and choices.

Bring the audiophiles from AudioKarma.org. The 'analoguers' are just a margin. When there is a margin, you will be granted the option to walk along the path of individualism. If you follow individualism, you will encounter a rude awakening.

I admit, I love being an individual. However, it's burdensome! It's taxing! It's hard work! Collecting records, magnetic tape and creating an analogue listening station requires work! It involves money and time, because it's not mainstream! There are more costs!

It is easy to be same instead of being different, because it requires less work and time, and more quantity to increase your sense of belonging! Another example: why code a program when somebody else can?

But here on AudioKarma.org, I feel I belong with the 'analoguers'.

 

[240sx4u]

I love having my CD collection ripped into lossless files. Quite honestly, it was the rebirth of digital for me. I would gladly buy albums off of amazon if I could buy them lossless and for a reasonable price.

Evan

 

[elwood127]

Records, 4 track, 8 track, 16 track, reel to reel, cassett, cd, mp3. It's like a bell curve of quality. Like said earlier, we have a duty to be the weirdos that show as many as possible what music can be. Hook as many as we can and come here where it's safe.

 

[jimbofish]

Practically no one has a component stereo setup anymore, except a few of my "vintage" friends with vintage gear

My kids are 26, 24 ands 19. I just could not wait for them to see my new audio gear, a Spec 1 and a Spec 2 - pretty much each one walked in, listened to my forced upon them demo, said sounds ok, but sure is ugly.....
I gave up at that moment.
I honestly was thinking the Spec gear could be like heirloom pieces - handed own for all to enjoy - too ugly.........:sigh:

They will appreciate it... eventually. Give them another 20 yrs.

 

[jdandy]

Agreed that it's not an isolated incident but I'd like to point out that hifi never did matter to the masses, it's always been for a rather small group of enthusiasts. I suppose it became a bit more mainstream during the 70's but faded back away along with the flower children.

Chazb11.......I agree with you. High Fidelity has never penetrated the masses. It picked up steam in the late 60's, but began to loose momentum by the early 80's. My feeling is, there will always be a group of individuals who enjoy a great home audio system, and put the energy and income into creating that system, but what most of us here at AK enjoy daily will never be in every household. Most of us are not the "Home Theater In A Box" type, and never will be. I believe the core of our hobby will remain strong enough to support the industries that provide what we want, and use, although some downsizing may take place. As we are all well aware of, companies come and go, not just in audio.

 

[Sharpstik]

the Circle of Life.

 

[grillebilly]

Interesting topic, hat's off to the OP.
Growing up in the 60's and 70's almost all families had a decent stereo, at least in the suburb I lived in. Most of my friends made stereo gear their first big investment, if it wasn't a car. But we all ended up at the local sound center comparing gear and cost.
I fell into the surround sound trap a few years back and that alone is what got me addicted to collecting vintage gear. The BPC just didn't cut it. I needed the real thing. Lucky for me I still have the stereo I bought in 1978 so I knew what it was supposed to sound like.
Music nowadays isn't treasured like it once was. Kids listen to music on their cell phones. I just can't understand it, coming from another era.
Convenience has cheapened everything, especially music.
Much of the gear you see on CL is from people who have "quit" critical music listening.
I guess times have changed. :tears:

 

[BrocLuno]

Gee I feel as though I came through a time warp. I was building crude DIY audio at 12 or 13 in the early 1960's. Collected some OK basic pieces as a teenager. Got some better stuff as young college guy (SX650 - EPI - TEAC - Dual). Used to trade stuff and worked at GRT/Chess -Janus for a few years.

Never went in for pure digital compressed stuff. Don't have a MP3 player. Still play Walkpersons (CD or Cassette). Have Cassette players in all the cars and trucks including a Nakamichi cassette in the Beemer. No speakers on PC at home or work. Have systems in each location.

I guess I'm just too old and old fashioned to get with it? But I love the way my gear is evolving as I acquire new to me bits and pieces like the Infinity speakers that finally bumped the EPIs out to the shop. I really love the new to me Denon DR-M44 (silver faced) that just rocks my old cassettes and new thrift store finds. My TT's have only gotten better or more capable including the AT PL120 that I use for vinyl preview & spinning 78's. The JVC QL is a marvel on vinyl.

Seems like it's been one long steady road up a modest improvement slope for ever. Somehow the bad stuff just never snuck in