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Isolating my turntable from footfall

Krasdale

Krasdale

New Member
Hope you're all doing well. I just moved into an apartment with extremely bouncy wood floors and it's wreaking havoc on my suspension turntable. I already know that mounting it to the wall will fix the problem, but I'm not crazy about how that would look. Could really heavy duty feet on my rack do the trick, or would they just be a waste of money?

When I say heavy duty feet, I'm talking about these: http://www.lignolab.com/en/products/daempfer/

I'll certainly mount it to the wall if I have to, but want to make sure there isn't a different solution first.

Thanks for your help!
 
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Thanks for your speedy reply. IIRC, the resonance frequency of my arm/cart combination is about 12hz. The tracking force on my cart is already 2.5 grams. If I or my girlfriend walk through the living room, it's easy to observe the turntable suspension rocking and moving the platter and arm. So it's not just really small vibrations, the floor is basically a trampoline and any need would be easily bounced out of the groove. I've tried adjusting the suspension a little, but it doesn't help.

What cart/arm combo helped in your situation, and were you using a suspension turntable? In my case, I'm using a modified Acoustic Research ES-1, a Jelco TK-850S, and an EMT TSD 15N SFL cartridge.
 
Those heavy duty feet that you show on your post are interesting and just might do the trick but I have no experience with them. I can say, however, that in my listening room I experienced horrible skipping with my suspended 'table (Thorens TD-160) when placed on a heavy mid-century modern buffet, but no skipping at all with either my non-suspended VPI Gen. 1 Traveler 'table or my solid plinth Garrard 301 in the same position on the same buffet. I have suspended wood floors as you do, but they are not as bouncy as the one you describe.

I tried different cartridges at various tracking weights, etc. on the 160 to no avail. The problem in my case was not the cartridge itself, the suspension adjustment, or the cartridge setup. The problem was the suspended 'table in combination with the suspended wood floors. Sometimes they don't work very well together. A wall mount was the answer. No problems with skipping after that.

I wish that I had the opportunity to try the feet that you mentioned but I never heard of them until I read your post.
 
You could try the Auralex ISO-Tone turntable isolation platform. There are some other isolation platforms out there, but I can't remember them. Some audio racks have platforms built into the shelving. If you really do have the trampoline effect going on, you might be better off just mounting a shelf to the wall. Unfortunately, a bit of experimentation is in order to get the best result. Best of luck.
 
Decibel_116 said:
You could try the Auralex ISO-Tone turntable isolation platform. There are some other isolation platforms out there, but I can't remember them. Some audio racks have platforms built into the shelving. If you really do have the trampoline effect going on, you might be better off just mounting a shelf to the wall. Unfortunately, a bit of experimentation is in order to get the best result. Best of luck.
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Thank you. That platform seems much more affordable than the others. I'll look into it.
 
SB12345 said:
Those heavy duty feet that you show on your post are interesting and just might do the trick but I have no experience with them. I can say, however, that in my listening room I experienced horrible skipping with my suspended 'table (Thorens TD-160) when placed on a heavy mid-century modern buffet, but no skipping at all with either my non-suspended VPI Gen. 1 Traveler 'table or my solid plinth Garrard 301 in the same position on the same buffet. I have suspended wood floors as you do, but they are not as bouncy as the one you describe.

I tried different cartridges at various tracking weights, etc. on the 160 to no avail. The problem in my case was not the cartridge itself, the suspension adjustment, or the cartridge setup. The problem was the suspended 'table in combination with the suspended wood floors. Sometimes they don't work very well together. A wall mount was the answer. No problems with skipping after that.

I wish that I had the opportunity to try the feet that you mentioned but I never heard of them until I read your post.
Click to expand...
Yes, a wall mount seems like the most certain solution. Did you make your own or buy one? Thanks for your reply.
 
rothwellaudio said:
Buy a box of screws and screw the floorboards down to the joists properly. If the joists are bouncing up and down, you're the one who's screwed. ;)
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I wonder how the co-op board would feel about that one! The amount of paperwork I had to fill out just to get the floors sanded...
 
Blewpernt said:
Hi,

I can’t really say because I honestly don’t remember and he wouldn’t apply to you because it wasn’t your arm or turntable. I was trying a few different cartridge at the time and was swapping them out when I noticed that one of them was just impervious to footfalls and even jumping. It wasn’t anything special, either, notable for tracking or anything. It just matched the arm well and was rock solid. I think it may have been a Yamaha. The TT was a stock SL-1200 with KAB fluid damper. But you’d just have to try different cartridges and find one that works. But I can see now why you’re probably not going to do that. I mean, an EMT has got to stay.
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Yeah, I'd certainly use a wall mount before switching carts.
 
If the rack is up against a structural wall there's a good chance it's swinging forward and back more than up and down. Anchoring the top of the rack to the wall will prevent it, and may be just enough to fix the problem.
 
ripblade said:
If the rack is up against a structural wall there's a good chance it's swinging forward and back more than up and down. Anchoring the top of the rack to the wall will prevent it, and may be just enough to fix the problem.
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I hadn't considered that. Yes, the rear of the rack is about 10 inches from an outside wall.
 
rothwellaudio said:
Buy a box of screws and screw the floorboards down to the joists properly. If the joists are bouncing up and down, you're the one who's screwed. ;)
Click to expand...

Your suggestion might apply to the UK, but I doubt that It'll apply to the OP at his location. Totally different means of construction. Besides, screwing down the floorboards might just cause him to get him fined by the Co-op board. The UK is not NY:oops:
 
Krasdale said:
Hope you're all doing well. I just moved into an apartment with extremely bouncy wood floors and it's wreaking havoc on my suspension turntable. I already know that mounting it to the wall will fix the problem, but I'm not crazy about how that would look. Could really heavy duty feet on my rack do the trick, or would they just be a waste of money?

When I say heavy duty feet, I'm talking about these: http://www.lignolab.com/en/products/daempfer/

I'll certainly mount it to the wall if I have to, but want to make sure there isn't a different solution first.

Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
I wasn't going to clutter your thread with this but it might be enjoyed for a laugh... when I read the title somehow I read it as isolating my turntable from football. I laughed to myself thinking football has pretty done that on it's own... oh well... I'm done.

Turntables on a bouncy wooden floor has always been a problem... tables with floating suspension seem to do better but I've seen them find resonance with the bounce... a tricky thing to minimize... sometimes it gets worse... I don't think it's a matter of the feet, will just move with the floor... a matter of isolation through wall mounting or suspension... like really soft dampening....like putting a pillow under the table
 
I took a piece of sheet 2" foam (the rubber kind that HVAC ac line sets are insulated with) and built a wood box that covers the top 3/4+ of the foam with a mdf top. Between that and the stock spring feet I can jump up and down right in front of the table with no effect on sound.
You can also use the foam as great speaker bases on the wood. I angled mine to tilt up speakers a little.
20200913_170819.jpg
 
No amount of isolation will stop the interaction of bouncing floor and a bouncing suspended table They will still bounce and cause the arm to bounce as well.

You have three suspensions in action here, the floor the table and the cartridge.

The only table I have personal experience with that can handle bouncing floors is a SOTA Sapphire/Nova/Cosmos etc .
They do it right with enough bounce and mass in the sub-chassis to counteract the bounce of the floor with out allowing the third suspended component to be excited, the cartridge.

Try this, if you can lock down your tables suspension so it doesn't bounce do it. then see if
you have the same issues. you might get lucky and not hear footfalls or other outside noises.

PS: Your issue isn't called footfall, its bounce . Footfalls are heard through the speakers.

Nashou
 
Krasdale said:
I hadn't considered that. Yes, the rear of the rack is about 10 inches from an outside wall.
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You need some way to bridge that gap. If possible, for trial purposes, clamp a dowel of some kind to the top of the rack in such a way that the dowel end butts against the wall, stabilizing the rack. That might be enough to keep it from rocking. If it works, you have the challenge of finding a permanent solution that doesn't look bork. ;)
 
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Wall mounting is the surest way to isolate but be sure to use an outside, or at least load bearing wall, if possible. It's what I've done for decades. I first used the Target mounts but even the heavy duty one with twin beams could be seen to flex. 20 years ago when looks weren't so much a concern but cost was, I went with the large cantilever arms sold at HD and Lowe's.
gi.mpl


If appearance matters and you need to avoid the cantilever support arm for space reasons, check into these Hybrid Brackets from A&M. https://www.aandmhardware.com/PDF/hybrid-price-list.pdf The 18x18 is what I someday will get around to except my current setup ain't broke.
 
+1 on wall mount. I was hesitant to do it but 100% solved the issue. I used solid walnut slab and black iron pipe to mount it. Made it big enough for a couple of decks;)20181103_115100.jpg
 
rothwellaudio said:
Buy a box of screws and screw the floorboards down to the joists properly. If the joists are bouncing up and down, you're the one who's screwed. ;)
Click to expand...

This is sometimes, the only cure. I crossed braced my floor where stereo and sound room (for guitar amps) is located. Did this from under the house --- while I was rewiring the house --- to isolate the breaker switches in the panel.

You only need to do this once, for both good floor vibration insulation and electrical isolation.

minion - thumbs up.gif
 
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