It's remarkable what deeper bass response and its effect can make, even with two speakers of virtually the same design and components.
Enjoy!
It isn't every day you get to make a thread like this..
- Thread starter canuckaudiog
- Start date
It's remarkable what deeper bass response and its effect can make, even with two speakers of virtually the same design and components.
Enjoy!
Very nice!
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
The more I listen to these and try different music on, the more I am in love with these.
Oh my god.
This system I've got going right here, just wow. I can't even think of why I would want to upgrade this any more. Maybe better speaker cables and acoustic panels? That's all I can think of.. this system is just so AMAZING!
Oh my god.
This system I've got going right here, just wow. I can't even think of why I would want to upgrade this any more. Maybe better speaker cables and acoustic panels? That's all I can think of.. this system is just so AMAZING!
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
Thanks! I'll hopefully get around to the restor-a-finish and waxing this weekend. And of course when it's lighter in the room.
The crossovers are just going to get recapped. I'd rather not mess with them. These are keepers though, so it's something I could consider down the road, but for now I am just going to bring them back to spec.
audiomagnate
Addicted Member
Congrats! Your quest is over, not many people here can say that. I had a brand new pair many many years ago when I used to sell them. But a 6.5 watt tube amp? That's different. I used to throw some serious power at them and they gobbled it up and spit out simply glorious bass into a fairly huge listening room.
audiofred
Active Member
I'll google them and see what all the excitement is about
Well here is a link and some technical on these speakers.
Very unusual design. The woofer seems to be an out-of-this-world oval speaker.
http://www.marklev.com/IMF/RSPM/index.html
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Congrats! I'm glad your upgrade worked out to more listening pleasure. They look awsome! :thmbsp:
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Nice.... Those look like they're in fantastic shape (Perhaps all they need is a little Feed N' Wax and that's it... I just bought some of that stuff for my W90's). Don't those have book-matched veneers (or am I thinking of your KEF's)?
I bet you'll have lots of ways you go in terms of power. Isn't it great though, having that bigger, better bottom-end and richer, airier mids and highs?
I picture those speakers playing something like Roger Waters' "Running Shoes" and sounding all big and effortless... (There's just no substitute for big, smooth, effortless speakers, and I mean that smooth, balanced, open kind of effortless where music just sounds like music and not music being pumped through SPEAKERS).
Do you have yourself some "test CD's/LP's" (or CD's/LP's that you know are well-mastered and not compressed)? When I made my last speaker-purchase, that's the first thing I did. I noticed I'm listening to digital recordings more-often than I used to, even though I'm not a big fan of digital recording. I guess it's easier for analog recordings to sound good through inexpensive speakers than it is for digital.
What are some of your go-to demoing picks? For jazz, I often use the old CD version of Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" or the Japanese 1st-pressing CD of Cannonball Adderley's "Somethin' Else", For rock, your choices are endless. Just choose CD-pressings from no later than say, 1994. Things got really-crazy with rock CD's by '97. Basically, ALL rock and pop titles were compressed by that point. If you need a rock album from '97 or later, see if there's a vinyl version because odds are REALLY-strong that the CD version is compressed, except for the odd classic-rock reissue that slipped through untouched, but that rarely-happened, and these days it NEVER happens...
Anyway, just free advice. You can take it or you can throw it away...
I bet you were up REALLY-late last night listening. It's great when it's so-good that you can't drag yourself away...
_______________________________________________________________
Listening to Portishead's "Roseland NYC Live" LP (Vinyl-rip)
2000x / MSII / W90's /
= Go Beat 
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frperdurabo
AK Member
Those look gorgeous!
What are you using for amp(s) ?
What are you using for amp(s) ?
electra100
Super Member
I can't wait to move to Alberta next year if this is the kind of deals I can find!
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
Yeah, it actually surprises me too. This little tube amp is a real performer. There's full bottom end, it doesn't sound shrill, thin or lacking in any way. These speakers reveal ancillary equipment like no tomorrow and this combination is actually very, very good. I can tell though if I wanted to really listen to these at a higher volume, in a bigger room, I'd need more gusto for sure. But in this situation, it is more than enough. I was a little worried in fact that a tube amp would be a bad choice for these speakers due to impedance issues and sounded woolly and just overall not enjoyable. But it's far exceeded my expectations, this tube amp matches better with these speakers than my TLS 80's which blows me away!
Nice.... Those look like they're in fantastic shape (Perhaps all they need is a little Feed N' Wax and that's it... I just bought some of that stuff for my W90's). Don't those have book-matched veneers (or am I thinking of your KEF's)?
I bet you'll have lots of ways you go in terms of power. Isn't it great though, having that bigger, better bottom-end and richer, airier mids and highs?
I picture those speakers playing something like Roger Waters' "Running Shoes" and sounding all big and effortless... (There's just no substitute for big, smooth, effortless speakers, and I mean that smooth, balanced, open kind of effortless where music just sounds like music and not music being pumped through SPEAKERS).
Do you have yourself some "test CD's/LP's" (or CD's/LP's that you know are well-mastered and not compressed)? When I made my last speaker-purchase, that's the first thing I did. I noticed I'm listening to digital recordings more-often than I used to, even though I'm not a big fan of digital recording. I guess it's easier for analog recordings to sound good through inexpensive speakers than it is for digital.
What are some of your go-to demoing picks? For jazz, I often use the old CD version of Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" or the Japanese 1st-pressing CD of Cannonball Adderley's "Somethin' Else", For rock, your choices are endless. Just choose CD-pressings from no later than say, 1994. Things got really-crazy with rock CD's by '97. Basically, ALL rock and pop titles were compressed by that point. If you need a rock album from '97 or later, see if there's a vinyl version because odds are REALLY-strong that the CD version is compressed, except for the odd classic-rock reissue that slipped through untouched, but that rarely-happened, and these days it NEVER happens...
Anyway, just free advice. You can take it or you can throw it away...
I bet you were up REALLY-late last night listening. It's great when it's so-good that you can't drag yourself away...
_______________________________________________________________
Listening to Portishead's "Roseland NYC Live" LP (Vinyl-rip)
2000x / MSII / W90's /
Thanks very much! Actually I don't have a lot of great recorded music to listen to. I imagine most of it is digital. Do you have some more suggestions? If you wouldn't mind could you PM me some of your favorites so I can check them out? Thank you!!
Also yes, the veneers are mirror matched just like the TLS 80's and TLS 50's that I had.
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frperdurabo
AK Member
Impedance through the bass is benign, thanks to the TL loading. Have you done any measurements - even simple ones using test tones and a RatShack SPL meter? If I had to guess, your little tube amp probably rolls off the bottom octave pretty severely - which is not a bad thing, unless you've got a real high damping factor monster solid state amp. (While not suitable for full-range use, my AB International Precedent 800 drove the bass like nobody's business - 16hz organ tones actually induced mild nausea)
If you're going to rebuild the crossover, I'd recommend adapting it for bi-amping - that way you can get the best of both worlds: a Crown DC300a - or similar - for the bass, tubes for everything else).
If you're going to rebuild the crossover, I'd recommend adapting it for bi-amping - that way you can get the best of both worlds: a Crown DC300a - or similar - for the bass, tubes for everything else).
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
It's possible it could be, but this tube amp is very full sounding to my ears. I'll have to get myself some test equipment to confirm, but it doesn't sound lacking in the bass department at all. I could feel the bass, that's for sure!
And yeah, I agree. Bi-amping would be the way to go. That might be something I will do later on down the road. For now, I'm pretty happy with them as they are, except of course I am going to recap them. I encourage you to do the same, and also get those super tweeters fixed.
Recapping them I can tell will make a good difference, the balance is a bit off on the speaker. Although it does sound very, very good, I know that the recap will bring this speaker back to the way it should sound.That is seriously-cool, dude. I know how much you liked the TLS80's, so you must be psyched to get the big daddy RSPM's. It's funny, your scenario sounds exactly like what I went through with my W90's. The seller, a fellow AK'er, was having second thoughts after he plugged them in to warm them up for me (Hey, it happens), but he said it was my enthusiasm that convinced him to go through with it ("Enthusiasms................. Enthusiasms").
I like the TLS80's a lot. Great mids and bass. The RSPM's must be off the hook. Was that their TOTL at the time? Those are big'uns...
For those who've never seen pictures of the RSPM MKIV, this will give you an idea of the size:
Speakers are great looking . I am digging those stands too .
frperdurabo
AK Member
When you play something with seriously deep tones, like the beginning of "Also Sprach Zarathustra," do you hear a continuous low tone, or a series of clicks?
Also, when you describe the tone as "off," what are you hearing? My measurements showed spikes at 3K and 1.5 - but these were done with an SPL meter, nothing fancy. Removing those spikes with some digital EQ made the midrange much smoother and and less "shouty".
Also, when you describe the tone as "off," what are you hearing? My measurements showed spikes at 3K and 1.5 - but these were done with an SPL meter, nothing fancy. Removing those spikes with some digital EQ made the midrange much smoother and and less "shouty".
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Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
My private message box is at like 99% until I go through and delete some (I've saved a lot of messages from people because of info they contain, but it's finally caught up to me), so I'll start off by putting a bunch of suggestions in a single post here, and I'll come back and edit as I remember more stuff.
For actual "test CD's", the best I've found is the Chesky Records "Ultimate Demonstration Disc" (1995). They kind of walk you through it. Also, Sheffield Labs has done quite a few test CD's AND LP's. In terms of sound-quality, I like these even better than the Chesky one, but the music is pretty-weak at times. Still worth looking up (The Sheffield Drum CD is really-cool... You can find a selection or two from that on YouTube). Ultrasone did one called the "Headtest CD", and Stereophile Magazine did a test CD in 1990. McIntosh did some reference CD's for their amps, if I remember correctly.
There's some neat hi-rez stuff online that can be downloaded for free. Here's a good link that compiles a pretty-big list of free, downloadable hi-rez/audiophile-type stuff...
http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/free-hi-res-music-downloads/
OK, now regarding your standard CD releases, remember what I said about most rock or pop titles from '97-present being compressed. This mastering compression I'm referring to here basically squashes the dynamic-range, causes a bunch of distortion (especially on the highs), and generally-makes the music sound like poop (Makes it sound fatiguing and in-your-face, and your ears get tired of it after 5 or 10 minutes... sooner if it's REALLY-brickwalled). It essentially chops the top right off of the dynamic-range, and this causes the distortion. Some CD's prior to '97 had some compression, but it didn't totally get out of hand until '97 and the "remaster craze" that I spoke of before. Mastering engineers first started using compression around '91-'92, but it was in such minute amounts that it still sounded okay compared to later releases.
I'm also not a fan of noise-reduction/no-noise. The 2001 CD remaster of George Harrison's "All Things Must Pass" is a good example of this. I'd rather have one of the old, non-remastered CD versions from the '80's for that one. Also, some Hendrix reissues from the '90's have it too.
If you have a particular title you like, go and google "Best-sounding CD version of -----------" or something like that (Actually, you can also insert the words "stevehoffman.tv" in parentheses after the other search words I mentioned... The Steve Hoffman website is an excellent resource for CD/LP pressing sound-quality info, but most forum sites don't have the greatest search engine, thus the reason for putting the words "stevehoffman.tv" into a google search, since google does a better search).
It also helps to get to know your record companies and the sound-quality for which each is known. The old Verve jazz stuff was very-well-recorded (Better-sounding than the old Blue Note recordings IMO). Atlantic made some great recordings, jazz or otherwise. Deutsche Grammophon is very-well-regarded in the classic genre (CD & LP). The old, mid '80's CBS Great Performance Series classical CD's are excellent-sounding as well. For audiophile labels, there's the well-known Mobile Fidelity (Their earliest CD releases from the mid to late '80's are my favorites, but they did make some nice ones later on). DCC/Audio Fidelity has put out some great stuff (Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray were the head mastering engineers at DCC, and DCC was later resurrected in the form of the Audio Fidelity label with Hoffman and Gray still at the mastering-helm... Take your pick with any of the DCC/AF releases... They're all good). Also, I've been really-happy with all of the Sony Mastersound CD's I've heard. These were done in the early '90's, I believe (The Sony Mastersound CD of Brubeck's "Time Out" is my favorite on disc... Sounds like a straight transfer from the album master... Same with Dylan's "Blonde On Blonde", the "Chicago Transit Authority" debut, the "Boston" debut, Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", and Boz Scaggs' "Silk Degrees").
There's a lot to learn, but the more time you spend researching this stuff, the better your music will sound. I spent a solid 2 years on the Hoffman site and elsewhere, learning what I could, and it's come in really-handy as my stereo system has improved (REALLY-handy, actually). The UK discs from the '80's are predominantly-better than the US CD pressings, but then the West German and Japanese CD pressings are usually even better than the UK versions (It really-depends on the album... For example, I love the Japanese 1st-pressings for all the old Floyd albums except for "The Wall"... For that one, the US 1st-pressing 2CD is actually my go-to favorite, and I believe the UK 1st-pressing used the same mastering as the US release). I'll have to see if I can throw some kind of list together of a bunch of my favorites, but take note of the points I mentioned above because it'll be really-helpful later on as you add new things to your music collection...
Maybe post a list of your favorite artists, and then I can go through them and tell you the best way to go (CD-pressing-wise) for each of them... (This is your thread, so I guess we're not really-going off-topic).
*EDIT* - I just noticed the AT13EA turntable cartridge you have listed above... I have an AT13EU for my Dual 1019.
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stish
Well-Known Member
It's possible it could be, but this tube amp is very full sounding to my ears. I'll have to get myself some test equipment to confirm, but it doesn't sound lacking in the bass department at all. I could feel the bass, that's for sure!
And yeah, I agree. Bi-amping would be the way to go. That might be something I will do later on down the road. For now, I'm pretty happy with them as they are, except of course I am going to recap them. I encourage you to do the same, and also get those super tweeters fixed.
IMHO, now is exactly the time to take a deep breath, and get lost in the music. You may find the "urge to tinker" never strikes. I love it when good things happen for good people.