It isn't every day you get to make a thread like this..
- Thread starter canuckaudiog
- Start date
KrisM
Lunatic Member
Thank you so much! I am going to be checking these out.
A bit off topic, but do you have a library card? Reserving music through the EPL website is easy, and I think it is about $15 a year. A very easy, and affordable, way to sample music. The titles get delivered to your neighbourhood branch. I've even borrowed SACDs, MFSL and DCC discs, etc from them over the years.
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
Huh! I didn't know that. I'll definitely have to do that. Thanks!
I'm just putting the ol' restor-a-finish and feed-n-wax treatment on them right now. The cabinets looked nice but a bit tired, this should spruce them up. I'll put up some pictures of them after. They look GORGEOUS!
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
Thank you, those are about the same sentiments I have about this find.
Please do post in your IMF topic about your progress, would love to see those beauties come back to life!!
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
All right so the wood restoration and polishing is finished. It was painstaking to leave them unhooked for that long, but it was worth it.
This is the left speaker after the Feed-n-Wax and Restor-a-Finish treatment. It came out great. I even did the back:
They went from looking a little tired to looking brand new!! Gotta love this stuff.
Since I didn't get before pictures of this speaker, I did for the other one. Here is how it looked before. Also, you can see the only damage that is on either of these speakers, which goes to show just how well taken care of they were:
Here is a close-up of the dent on the front. The previous owner said that what happened was when he lived in an apartment, his room mates kid was over and knocked something over into the speaker. Needless to say he had to take a walk after.. but at least it isn't so bad considering the shape the rest of the cabinets are in:
And now for the after pictures, quite a difference even though they were already in fantastic shape:
Also one thing that should be noticed is the attention to detail. Even the backs of these speakers are veneer matched. They really did not miss anything on these great loudspeakers. They sure are lookers..
Edit:
To make it a little easier to see the before and after here they are right on top of each other:
It was painstaking to leave them unhooked for that long, but it was worth it.This is the left speaker after the Feed-n-Wax and Restor-a-Finish treatment. It came out great. I even did the back:
They went from looking a little tired to looking brand new!! Gotta love this stuff.
Since I didn't get before pictures of this speaker, I did for the other one. Here is how it looked before. Also, you can see the only damage that is on either of these speakers, which goes to show just how well taken care of they were:
Here is a close-up of the dent on the front. The previous owner said that what happened was when he lived in an apartment, his room mates kid was over and knocked something over into the speaker. Needless to say he had to take a walk after.. but at least it isn't so bad considering the shape the rest of the cabinets are in:
And now for the after pictures, quite a difference even though they were already in fantastic shape:
Also one thing that should be noticed is the attention to detail. Even the backs of these speakers are veneer matched. They really did not miss anything on these great loudspeakers. They sure are lookers..
Edit:
To make it a little easier to see the before and after here they are right on top of each other:
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Wow, looks great, especially the before and after pics.
Now those exposed wood edges on the TL vent and around the drivers (woofer and supertweeter mainly look out of place. Wondering whether black stain/paint, Restor-A-Finish in the same color as the veneer, or veneering would be an option or just overkill? I suspect though that any amount of solvent or liquid the tint/stain is in that is adsorbed into the open particle board might actually be a problem or damage the particle board, even if evaporated.
If done, probably would have to seal the exposed wood/particle board first, then color it? Or the other way round? Or use a strip veneer on it?
Are the drivers held in by T-nuts/bolts or by wood screws?
Now those exposed wood edges on the TL vent and around the drivers (woofer and supertweeter mainly look out of place. Wondering whether black stain/paint, Restor-A-Finish in the same color as the veneer, or veneering would be an option or just overkill? I suspect though that any amount of solvent or liquid the tint/stain is in that is adsorbed into the open particle board might actually be a problem or damage the particle board, even if evaporated.
If done, probably would have to seal the exposed wood/particle board first, then color it? Or the other way round? Or use a strip veneer on it?
Are the drivers held in by T-nuts/bolts or by wood screws?
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
It's definitely a possibility. I think they are held in just by screws, but there could be bolts back there. Not too sure. I think I have a picture of behind the front baffle on my TLS 80's and I imagine it's held on the same way, I'll have to dig it up.
I think probably veneer would be the best way to go. Might be a little tough to make it blend in though. I have a carpenter buddy who is coming over to pick up a woofer for his Wharfedales soon, I'll ask him about that.
The one thing I'd really like to tackle though is getting that dent fixed up. I have no idea where to even start with that.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
I can't believe the veneers on these things. Not sure what these cost new, but IMF went all out. The restore job worked beautifully. The veneers look like new again, and they're fantastic veneers. I need to at least try the Feed N' Wax on my W90's. I have that as well as the Restore-A-Finish, but I don't want to use the R-A-F inside the house, and I'm not looking to lug these speakers outside either (At WELL-over 100lbs, you need two people to carry them... I already have someone coming over tomorrow just to help me get them up on 5" risers... Not throwing my back out again like I did last year).
Did you do the restore job INSIDE the house, or did you lug them outside? I'm wondering about fumes and all that.
I'm been trying to understand the design of the RSPM's. There's just the one woofer, right? No hidden woofer inside pointing downwards, or anything like that? Looks like they're doing the big, ported cab thing (giving the drivers plenty of cubic feet to work their magic). I took a peek at the design, but I have a hard time understanding what's going on there (on paper).
Did you do the restore job INSIDE the house, or did you lug them outside? I'm wondering about fumes and all that.
I'm been trying to understand the design of the RSPM's. There's just the one woofer, right? No hidden woofer inside pointing downwards, or anything like that? Looks like they're doing the big, ported cab thing (giving the drivers plenty of cubic feet to work their magic). I took a peek at the design, but I have a hard time understanding what's going on there (on paper).
luvmusik
HOORAY !...ELECTRICITY !
Deep transmission line woofer design, one of the nicest, along with another true mid transmission line, and tweeter plus super tweeter. Good info on www.imf-electronics.com where you may dig around and clic on interesing things there and of course cast your vote for the transmission line babe contest there when visiting. Forgot to ask owner how he likes 3 position front panel controls....Have you experimented and how did you like the results from the controls ? Regarding the request for source material have suggested trying Emerson, Lake and Palmer's 1st s/t album, quick track "Lucky Man" for total sonics and other trax. Also ELP's 2nd album "Tarkus" entire album for great listening and bass workout. Preferred formats in LP, (reel), 24-carat gold pressed cd (Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab), also ? LP from MFSL ? and just newly released "deluxe editions" of both cd's containing hi-res mixes, extra trax, original album, (5.1 mix) and additionally remastered versions all included. Have not heard those 2 new releases of these classic works yet, just released weeks ago. Also recommended the MFSL 24 carat gold pressed cd of Steely Dan "Aja" for great clarity, headroom and dynamics; believe maybe available also on MFSL LP too. Not sure of OP's listening tastes, but for start up auditioning of full range material, ELP's 1st 2 albums are in many folks' libraries, especially for test-listening new equipment and the RSPM speakers can really navigate the sensational bass on these recordings as well as a multitude of all the other musical attributes captured on record.
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
That's right, it's a transmission line. I'll take a few excerpts from Wikipedia to help explain:
So as you can see it's a fairly complex theory. It's pretty difficult to do properly and it's also very expensive to make. Ask anyone who is a DIYer and has attempted transmission line speakers. When done properly though, they sound incredible! The bass is very smooth, with very low coloration and not only that sounds full. That's why I love IMF speakers, is simply because of their magical ability to employ a proper transmission line, and then on top of that they just sound very, very good everywhere else.
As far as the Restor-A-Finish, I did it inside. However, I put a fan on in the room and left the window wide open. Then I typically leave the window open all night, and it airs itself out by morning. I don't think the fumes are too bad but I admit that it's definitely not a good thing to be breathing in, so I typically don't stay in the room afterwards when it is done. The speakers are also in their own room, so the whole apartment didn't end up smelling like the stuff, just the one room so it works well that way. If you're in a living room I'd imagine that might cause more problems.
Hope that helps you understand transmission line speakers. They are very interesting. I spoke to one gentleman who has been designing his own speakers for 30 years and he called it a "black art", and basically said you can measure properly and calculate it all out right, but it still doesn't sound good. I'm not sure what the guys behind IMF did to make it sound the way it does, but they knew what they were doing when it came to transmission lines. They have been an inspiration to other people to try this speaker design.
luvmusik - thanks for those suggestions. My listening tastes are fairly eclectic, I like just about anything. As long as there is passion and soul put into the music I can listen to it.
I'll definitely check those out!
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
I was under the impression that transmission-line designs are speakers where the woofers, mids, and tweeters form a straight line (since a linear low/mid/tweeter array is supposed to be good), but apparently that's not the case. I'll have to look into that. Hell, I don't know...
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
I was under the impression that transmission-line designs are speakers where the woofers, mids, and tweeters form a straight line (since a linear low/mid/tweeter array is supposed to be good), but apparently that's not the case. I'll have to look into that. Hell, I don't know...
They are very interesting for a design. :yes: Definitely worth looking into.
Also, my capacitor kit shipped today! That means I will receive it next week sometime hopefully. I'll be sure to put up a new thread of the job with pictures and all that fun stuff.
rx7rotary
Active Member
Thank you, those are about the same sentiments I have about this find.
Please do post in your IMF topic about your progress, would love to see those beauties come back to life!!
Canuck, just because of your and simplysound's bugging I Have started the project once again, and have startted to post photos, check it out.
Mark
nexus
Super Member
Man, you are so fortunate to get such a clean almost cherry pair of those!
i always wanted a pair of IMF or TDL. transmission lines are really an art and my attempt at home construction back in the 70's ended poorly. i also liked the early t-line designs of ESS (based on the british designs and kef drivers).
the most impressive t-line i ever heard was at the 1987 CES in las vegas. it was a dual line with two oval woofers that were supposed to be an improvement on the flat kef driver. incredible bass smoothness and with good power.
ELP was my first hi-fi demo and it was on a pair of ESS translinear IIs in 1972. it was "from the beginning" from trilogy. state of the art electronics and Rabco TT. i don't remember the cartridge. blew me completely away.
enjoy your IMFs!!
i always wanted a pair of IMF or TDL. transmission lines are really an art and my attempt at home construction back in the 70's ended poorly. i also liked the early t-line designs of ESS (based on the british designs and kef drivers).
the most impressive t-line i ever heard was at the 1987 CES in las vegas. it was a dual line with two oval woofers that were supposed to be an improvement on the flat kef driver. incredible bass smoothness and with good power.
ELP was my first hi-fi demo and it was on a pair of ESS translinear IIs in 1972. it was "from the beginning" from trilogy. state of the art electronics and Rabco TT. i don't remember the cartridge. blew me completely away.
enjoy your IMFs!!
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
Thanks!
They are really something else. I mean I thought my TLS 80's were nice, but these take it to a whole new level. I'm sitting here listening to them as I type this, listening to some Joe Satriani. It's the most natural live sound I've ever heard. Oh, let's not forget that transmission line bass.. quite impeccable.
I can understand your lust for a nice pair of t-lines. They're hard to make and do properly. I've thought about trying my hand at it but I said to heck with it, there's no way I'm going to build a nicer pair for cheaper than a nice pair of IMF's! The cabinets alone would cost that much.
The only other two speakers I could see being an upgrade from here on out would be the SACM, or the very hard to find TDL Reference Standard. Would be lovely to hear a set of those. Perhaps that was the dual oval woofer design you heard? That describes the Reference Standard. I've heard from a few who have owned the Reference Standards as well as many of the other IMF models, even the SACM's, and they say it tops even the best IMF by a good amount. Would be very cool to hear a pair of those.
But, for now, I am going to enjoy these amazing IMF's.
nexus
Super Member
yeah the reference. i told the demonstrator at the TDL room it was the best overall sound at the show, he nodded smugly. i believe he was actually one of the designers.
not being able to have a t-line (and i don't mean those pseudo 'mass loaded' MJK inventions (with all due respect to MK) which are just ported boxes tuned to the quarter wave resonances (i tried one of those too with not much luck - my engineer brother did the math cad).
therefore, my next favorite bass loading is an AS with a bessel alignment and some bass eq. and is what i have settled on because of space limitations.
well maybe someday i'll make a score like you did!
not being able to have a t-line (and i don't mean those pseudo 'mass loaded' MJK inventions (with all due respect to MK) which are just ported boxes tuned to the quarter wave resonances (i tried one of those too with not much luck - my engineer brother did the math cad).
therefore, my next favorite bass loading is an AS with a bessel alignment and some bass eq. and is what i have settled on because of space limitations.
well maybe someday i'll make a score like you did!
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luvmusik
HOORAY !...ELECTRICITY !
Thumbs up Joe Satriani - Dreaming #11 disc an all time fav ! Great taste ! Big TDL Reference Standard sure look wonderful (& monstrously heavy & large, !). Like posted here earlier, they had a design hand from someone from IMF or Fried also. Sure would love to hear an A-B test same volume, of them with the IMF RSPM MK IV. Probably ? close ? Maybe the TDL gets even closer to the "absolute sound". Be great to read if someone here has owned both , what they thought sonically; or someone who heard both.
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
Over at the IMF group there's a gentleman who has owned pretty much every IMF T-line you can think of, as well as 5 (yeah, 5!!) pairs of TDL Reference Standards. There's a few variants of the TDL Reference Standard apparently.
Anyway, from what he said the TDL Reference Standard bests any IMF speaker. It's literally the best effort ever made with those oval woofers. He's compared it to the SACM which he feels is a step up over the RSMP Mk IV, and said it is just better in every way.
Pretty amazing effort if you ask me.
I sure want to hear a pair now!JethroTech
Member
Canuck, Those things are beautiful! I'll have to pop by one day for a listen. And I need to go out and buy some of that Restor-O-Wax (or whatever it's called) and do my IMFs. I can't believe the difference it made.
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
I sent ya an e-mail back about it and where you can get it.
Home hardware for anyone else wondering in Canada, where you can get Howard's Restor-a-Finish and Feed-n-Wax.
Feel free to drop by for a listen of course