JBL 1200hz crossover for 2225/2425

[EarlK]

I’ve been thinking about using Emilar bowtie horns. I need the speaker cabs to be under 25” tall. With the bowties the woofer can sit very close to the horn. Even with that I’m sure not I can fit the woofer/horn in that area. I need to lay it out and see.

I’m not a big fan of the 811 horn. I don’t currently own any 811/511.

I’d love to make a crossover that uses the LF circuit from a JBL xover, and something else for the HF section. I’m wondering if the HF section should be tailored more to the horn or driver I use.

What's the depth of the "Bowtie" horn, measured from back-of-baffle mount to drivers VC are/gap/ring?? Think the figure is about the same as the mounted 811 back to theVC area.

Over at HiFiHaven, Woody just successfully used a Z19 crossover with his bowtie//Emilar driver combo.

You can check out my thread about my latest speaker project. I modded some 846B Valencias and so I'm running an EH800/416 combo there. I used the Z19 network. I'm using a modern Radian compression driver on mine.

Woody's Altec Valencia-19 project

 

[elitopus]

I don’t have the bowtie horns at my house right now, but next time I’m at my speaker storage I can measure them. I think you’re right about the depth being very similar to the 811.

I don’t have to use the JBL 2425 drivers. I thought it would be cool to use JBL woofers and horn drivers, but it isn’t necessary.

I have Emilar EC and EA175, Renkus 1400, 1800, 1801, Altec 802, Radian 455, and some other 1” drivers I’m probably forgetting.

Right now my JBL 2425 are hanging on the back of my PAS CXLs

 

[Franknfurter]

Iirc, Woody uses a Radian cd on his Bowties.
I also started a Bowtie +15" (fieldcoil) project, compared 802 (GPA dias, Tangerine) to EA175 and EC175, also started with a simplified (no HP EQ) Z19 xover.
The EA175 won the race. Meanwhile I changed the 12dB LP of the Z19 to a 6dB + Zobel with success, but that might depend on the woofers midrange abilities.

 

[bowtie427ss]

Right now my JBL 2425 are hanging on the back of my PAS CXLs

Hey, there's something familiar about that box.

 

[elitopus]

Hey, there's something familiar about that box.

The PAS fit in there perfectly.

My favorite thing about them is the woofer clamps.

 

[elitopus]

I really like the EA175 drivers, but I want to use something else for this project. I have a pair of EA175 in my Altec 9849 wannabes right now. Those are my current living room speakers.

Last time I used the EH800 horns it was for this project. I made the 8227 cabs from the Altec plans. I got the 3127 woofers from the same place I got those gray cabs the PAS woofers are in

 

[Riley Casey]

If you have the rotary passive/biamp switches ( not all 4722s did ) you probably want to jumper them out. They are a weak point in every speaker JBL used them in.

Here's what I bought last week at a musical instrument store--old SR 4722 band speakers. 2416 driver on 2322 horn, 2206 woofer, 1200 crossover. Very well balanced and they kick ass. They image too. $500 and in excellent condition, I think they often go for less. Made in California. 2416 takes same diaphragm as 2425 but it's incorporated into the back cap for easier installation. Radian aluminums fit and Radian makes a separate back cap to use .

 

[elitopus]

I have some smaller cabs I went to do something with also. They were Aztec something. I just bought a pair of LE14H. I think those will do well in a cab around 3.5cuft?

 

[elitopus]

I’m thinking since I’m getting the LE14H I might do something a little different. I’ll put them in my Aztec cabs with a JBL 338800-001 waveguide and 2416 HF drivers. This should get me a little more low end extension than the 2225, and in a smaller cab. And it is my understanding that the 2425/2426/2416 are functionally very similar

 

[grindstone]

Should be bass out the wazoo, comparatively, at the expected lower output level. If it was me, I'd see if you have room for a few pavers after you get everything in there Interested to hear where you go with this, man! You have a lot of fun stuff

 

[elitopus]

From what WinISD says, a 3.5 cuft cab tuned to 30hz should be decent for a LE14H. I might still use an Emilar bowtie horn, or possibly the 6x12 JBL waveguide. If I used the waveguide I would want to use a threaded driver.

I don’t have very many threaded options. And I don’t like adaptors. My options are
JBL 220Ti
JBL 2412 (thought they were 2416, whoops)
Peavey 22a

I still need to actually get the LE14H from the seller, verify they’re good, and refoam them. I think they were pulled from a pair of L222.



Oh and fix that dustcap…

I’ve never refoamed a woofer that has the foam on the back of the cone. Should be interesting. I’ve done a bunch of advent woofers where the foam is on the back of the Masonite though.

 

[elitopus]

What do we think about some JBL 2416 versus something like the PRV 290py? I’ve read the PRV is a copy of the B&C 250.

Seems like the JBL with its Ti phragm might have more HF extension, versus the PRV with its poly phragm. But the PRV might be smoother. Now if the JBL had a Radian 1225, that would things makes more interesting.

If I use the JBL 338800-001 waveguide I want to use screw on drivers with it.

 

[twiiii]

I don't like taking 15 inch drivers above 300 to 400 hz. They are to heavy and slow and suffer from cone break up at higher frequencies. JBL makes or use to make great 10 and 8 inch professional drivers that work great as midranges if you want to reach up to 12 or 16 hundred HZ.

 

[elitopus]

It’s interesting to me how the thinking is different with Altec and JBL guys. With Altec there were mostly 2 way designs, and they wouldn’t hesitate to run the woofer to 1200hz, or even 1500hz (or the old 604 xovers that were 2000hz ).

JBL stuck around longer, and designed a lot more home speakers. Many of them 3 way (or more) designs.

I don’t feel the need for this. I could see doing a mid horn and HF horn, but not a cone mid. I have no issues running a 12” or 15” woofer up to 1200hz. Maybe someday I’ll copy a pair of JBL 3 way speakers. Maybe even cone mid. Not today though.

On a side note, I have a pair of PAS speakers that uses 2x18 per side, and also a horn loaded 12” woofer. Originally they had a HF horn on top. Mine didn’t come with the horns but maybe I’ll find them someday. I’m not even sure what HF driver they used.

Like these…

 

[elitopus]

I bought a pair of JBL 338800-001 horns. I bought them from one place and they told me 2 days later they’re out of stock. So I cancelled that order and got them from Speaker Exchange. We’ll see if they actually have them.

I have to decide what HF driver I want to use. The 220ti I have, or something else. Like the JBL 2416. I’ve read the 2425, 2426, and 2416 can used interchangeably? Obviously used in pairs

 

[Tom Brennan]

I have to decide what HF driver I want to use. The 220ti I have, or something else. Like the JBL 2416. I’ve read the 2425, 2426, and 2416 can used interchangeably? Obviously used in pairs

The 2416 is a simplified version of 2425-26-27 and uses the same diaphragm though in the 2416 the diaphragm is an integral part of the back cover, making for a simpler design and easier change. The Radian replacement diaphragm for the 2425 fits right in the 2416 but must be used with a back cover Radian makes to replace the stock 2416, which can no longer be used. The 2416 is a high quality driver and was used in the JBL 4425 monitor and in the Urei 809 monitor.

 

[elitopus]

I usually steer clear of the screw on drivers. I want to use these JBL waveguides though, and I don’t want to use screw on to 2 bolt adaptors.
I missed out on a good deal on a pair of 2416 recently. I should’ve jumped on them. They do seem to go for cheaper than the 2425/2426 though.

If I could find a nice pair of 2426 that would be cool also. Since they have the fancy removable snout

 

[EarlK]

The advantage of going with the Selenium 220Ti is that Zilch//JackGiff already worked out a decent eWave crossover for it.



You'll need//want to measure the crossover area with an RTA ( of some sort ) to determine the correct polarity relationships between the drivers ( since back in the day I believe Jack simply assigned the "+" sign to the red terminal of each and every driver ).

This would then translate into the following ( if I'm correct );



One doesn't achieve much substituting a 2426h driver into this design ( apart from having to learn to mod the network to get back to the intended response.



Something like the following seems to work for the HF ( when using s 2426H ).



PS' this combination of components can result in a visually stunning ( to my eyes ) speaker.

Here's what Zonkers92 achieved some years back;

 

[elitopus]

I think I’ve read about Zonker’s project during my research for these. Those were C36 if I remember correctly. Just over 2 cuft

Ok I’ll start out with the 220ti. If they sound good I’ll just leave them. I’m sure they will with all the crossover work that’s already been figured out for me

The first crossover you posted is what I was planning to build. I’ve read the LE14A and LE14H have very similar specs. It’s good enough for who it’s for, as my dad would say

 

[elitopus]

The horns are on the way, so are the parts from PE. The crossovers cost about $115 in parts to build.
Cabs will be modified Aztec Gaugin