JBL 4367 Am I crazy or stupid?

[NavnFugl]

Hello, I'm new here.

So,

I like doing what nobody else seems to be doing. I like the idea of a line array.

I'm acquiring 2 sets of JBL 4367 at a good price.
I'm thinking to stack them on top of each other. The set sitting on top would be flipped upside down as for the horns to be closest to each other.
My amp delivers 300 Watts per channel in 8 ohm. The speakers have a nominal impedance of 7 ohms. I thinking of wiring the speakers in series to give a 12 ohm load to the amp per channel. I calculate around 200 Watts per channel into 12 ohms. Seeing as the speakers er 94db sensitive, 200 Watts per channel should be plenty.

My question to the forum:
Is there anything inherently wrong with my mad idea?
Am I wasting my money for too little to be gained?
Are there any drawbacks I should watch out for?

Initially I wanted to acquire a set of JBL Everest DD67000 and never have to think about new speakers again-
But seeing as they rarely come up on the used market the idea stated above is my second choice.

I'm open to critique and questions if you'd please give your two cents to me.

/Navnfugl

 

[donprice]

Sort of like a JBL K2 S9500?

Got any DIY interest? It looks like the JBL M2 components are reasonably available (Speaker Exchange) so you could try an MTM arrangement with a pair of 2216Nd and the D2430K compression driver on the M2 Gorilla Butt waveguide in the middle. Go with an active DSP crossover with the M2 files as a starting point. Hint- if the project fails you chop the boxes down to size, build M2 clones, and use the spare woofs for a triple chamber bandpass sub...or not. The drivers are not that expensive...the 2216Nd-1 used in the 4367 appears to be much more difficult to source than the 2216Nd which is also used a couple of JBL Pro boxes. Alternatives....place a pair of 2216Nd side by side and run as 2.5-way design like the JBL 4435...or stack vertically for 2.5-way.

Oh...welcome to AK!

Good luck!

 

[toddalin]

My question to the forum:
Is there anything inherently wrong with my mad idea?
Am I wasting my money for too little to be gained?
Are there any drawbacks I should watch out for?

Lobing
Probably, and maybe much to be lost in the way of soundstage and imaging. And these speaker are really not great at imaging to begin with (Stereophile Magazine testing).
Lobing

 

[Cosmos]

The concept of a two way with a 15" (or good 12") and medium size horn with good driver is a great combination that punches way above its pay grade. Take a look at some of the better Zilch Econo-wave projects, Wayne Parham's Pi Speakers, JBL's 4430/4435 series or TAD studio monitors (and many other similar well-done designs) and you will find excellent sounding speakers all built around similar concepts. The design concept works. That's why it's been so replicated.

Impossible to go wrong with Everests, of course.

In any case, you're looking at an (at least) near end game speaker and more than an end game level for most. A DIY pair similar in concept are my main system.. if that is any indication about how I feel about it. You might notice the JBL Bullet tweeters up top.. just playing around with those. The horn drivers are 2445s with Beryllium diaphragms..

Finally, the only real question and ultimate answer rests within your head - and nobody can trump it. It's all about what you like and enjoy.

 

[SaturationPt]

As a 4367 owner I would say that you will likely lose some imaging accuracy, and unless you are trying to fill a very large space with high SPL music, you will gain nothing.

Todd you might want to read the review again. There was a mention of a lack of imaging during break-in, but not after: https://www.stereophile.com/content/jbl-4367-studio-monitor-loudspeaker I feel that like any speaker, proper setup and equipment is key, and that they image exceptionally. Mine are now over a year old and lack nothing, some of the most truthful and dynamic speakers I ever auditioned in the sub-$60k range.

 

[GordonW]

The main thing that would happen in a stack like this, would be a narrowing of the vertical dispersion. Whether of not that would be uniform enough to not be a problem, is unknown without trying it.

I've used that effect to my advantage, in some cases- I used to use a stack of two JBL PT waveguides, one on top of the other, to deliberately reduce vertical dispersion, to mitigate somewhat, the effects of the highs bouncing off of the floor and ceiling. In my application, it worked, but that wasn't as "high end" as what you'd be doing here...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Danathepill]

I’m confused by this. Aren’t these $16,500 speakers new? They certainly should be able to give you as much sound as you could possibly want. If a single pair can’t then just buy a used pair of Kef Blades and you’ll have all the sound you could possibly want and then some.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Hello, I'm new here.

So,

I like doing what nobody else seems to be doing. I like the idea of a line array.

I'm acquiring 2 sets of JBL 4367 at a good price.
I'm thinking to stack them on top of each other. The set sitting on top would be flipped upside down as for the horns to be closest to each other.
My amp delivers 300 Watts per channel in 8 ohm. The speakers have a nominal impedance of 7 ohms. I thinking of wiring the speakers in series to give a 12 ohm load to the amp per channel. I calculate around 200 Watts per channel into 12 ohms. Seeing as the speakers er 94db sensitive, 200 Watts per channel should be plenty.

My question to the forum:
Is there anything inherently wrong with my mad idea?
Am I wasting my money for too little to be gained?
Are there any drawbacks I should watch out for?

Initially I wanted to acquire a set of JBL Everest DD67000 and never have to think about new speakers again-
But seeing as they rarely come up on the used market the idea stated above is my second choice.

I'm open to critique and questions if you'd please give your two cents to me.

/Navnfugl

Ever thought about a powered subwoofer? Maybe two.

 

[NavnFugl]

Thank you for the comments everybody, appreciate it.

I'm only looking at original JBL models.
I'm getting the 2 pairs of JBl 4367 used for less than the price of 1 new pair. That's contributing immensely to my mad idea.

I was hoping to achieve a broader soundstage, vertically. I understand not much more would be abel to be gained, other than increased SPL.
I'll be running 2 array 1500 subs as well, to take care of anything below 30hz.

In my system I've a McIntosh MEN220 room correction system. I hope this would correct any problems that would arise running 2 sets at once sonically.

/NavnFugl

 

[Mr Boochie]

Thank you for the comments everybody, appreciate it.

I'm only looking at original JBL models.
I'm getting the 2 pairs of JBl 4367 used for less than the price of 1 new pair. That's contributing immensely to my mad idea.

I was hoping to achieve a broader soundstage, vertically. I understand not much more would be abel to be gained, other than increased SPL.
I'll be running 2 array 1500 subs as well, to take care of anything below 30hz.

In my system I've a McIntosh MEN220 room correction system. I hope this would correct any problems that would arise running 2 sets at once sonically.

/NavnFugl

Be sure those woofers are in-phase, and you'll be good to go!

Multiple 15-inch or 18-inch woofers are so nice.

 

[Nyjblbob]

IMHO you only need to add more power to One pair of 4367's
to get the higher SPL's and bigger soundstage. you already have the Subs.
you can Keep the best pair and sell the other pair!
I can't see you wasting a pair of 4367's for Rear Surrounds.
Have you tried Bi-amping them?? Tubes on just the horns?
That alone can Dramatically change the Sound stage!

 

[NavnFugl]

IMHO you only need to add more power to One pair of 4367's
to get the higher SPL's and bigger soundstage. you already have the Subs.
you can Keep the best pair and sell the other pair!
I can't see you wasting a pair of 4367's for Rear Surrounds.

I can't get the idea and image out of my head before I've tried 2 sets stacked, it has to be done and tested.
If all else fails, I will indeed sell 1 pair and keep the other.

/NavnFugl

 

[Nyjblbob]

Have you tried Bi-amping them?? Tubes on just the horns?
That alone can Dramatically change the Sound stage!

 

[toddalin]

As a 4367 owner I would say that you will likely lose some imaging accuracy, and unless you are trying to fill a very large space with high SPL music, you will gain nothing.

Todd you might want to read the review again. There was a mention of a lack of imaging during break-in, but not after: https://www.stereophile.com/content/jbl-4367-studio-monitor-loudspeaker I feel that like any speaker, proper setup and equipment is key, and that they image exceptionally. Mine are now over a year old and lack nothing, some of the most truthful and dynamic speakers I ever auditioned in the sub-$60k range.

I know what it says. And compared to "as new" I'm sure they got better over the three weeks. But so many speakers "start out" sounding "great" and also get better. Have you ever read a review where the author came out and said "these stink?" Maybe he "habituated" to the speakers as much as they changed over time? He never did come back and say, "The imaging is now..."

BTW, did you buy yours new and did you notice a substantial difference over the first few weeks?

I am not so convinced that horns, in general, produce that nice 3D image that I have become accustomed too when I created the Mermans. When I was setting up the L200/300s, I was happy to try to get a smooth frequency response and thought little of imaging/soundstage. I think that speakers that are time and phase coherent do a better job, and that's not a horn's forte unless you "process" the signal.

Sure any system can throw a left/right/center and many even extend beyond the left and right speakers, but until you hear steller soundstage/imaging, you just don't know what you are missing. I would love to come by and hear your 4367s and be proven wrong. Alternatively, you are welcome to come by and listen to my wares anytime. I'm in Orange County, CA.

 

[NavnFugl]

I thought about it. But from what I can see, the JBL 4367 is only setup for bi-wiring or passive bi-amping (Still using internal crossover)
I've read that active bi-amping is what one should strive for, bypassing the internal crossovers, having an active crossover sending the correct frequency band and octave (Such as it was intended with some of the older JBL 43XX monitors with the switch on the back for selecting to bypass the internal crossover)

 

[Nyjblbob]

Yes Even Passively Biamped just split the signal with Y RCA's . from your Preamp
to the 2 diff amps.
This keeps the High pass X-overs internal to the 4367's Intact.
Of course gain controls on both amps helps Zero in the Balance.
You would be surprised what volume {7 watts SET 300b} on a JBL horn puts out!

 

[SaturationPt]

I know what it says. And compared to "as new" I'm sure they got better over the three weeks. But so many speakers "start out" sounding "great" and also get better. Have you ever read a review where the author came out and said "these stink?" Maybe he "habituated" to the speakers as much as they changed over time? He never did come back and say, "The imaging is now..."

BTW, did you buy yours new and did you notice a substantial difference over the first few weeks?

I am not so convinced that horns, in general, produce that nice 3D image that I have become accustomed too when I created the Mermans. When I was setting up the L200/300s, I was happy to try to get a smooth frequency response and thought little of imaging/soundstage. I think that speakers that are time and phase coherent do a better job, and that's not a horn's forte unless you "process" the signal.

Sure any system can throw a left/right/center and many even extend beyond the left and right speakers, but until you hear steller soundstage/imaging, you just don't know what you are missing. I would love to come by and hear your 4367s and be proven wrong. Alternatively, you are welcome to come by and listen to my wares anytime. I'm in Orange County, CA.

Yes new, I left them face to face overnight wired out of phase running pink noise for initial break-in and then there is the measurement and adjustment period, by the time they were completely set up they had some hours on the suspension. They are also a charge-coupled crossover, which in theory takes a little time to charge and function at its best according to the manual, but I doubt that takes much time unless you’re listening very quietly.

I would love to hear your system & creations, unfortunately we’re separated by most of a country and I seldom get west. Thanks for the offer however.

 

[SaturationPt]

I thought about it. But from what I can see, the JBL 4367 is only setup for bi-wiring or passive bi-amping (Still using internal crossover)
I've read that active bi-amping is what one should strive for, bypassing the internal crossovers, having an active crossover sending the correct frequency band and octave (Such as it was intended with some of the older JBL 43XX monitors with the switch on the back for selecting to bypass the internal crossover)

True, without the jumper you still have a crossover network in-line for each driver, and the HF one definitely does some shaping.

The power handling is pretty impressive, I can’t see wanting a quartet of them, but I guess it would be fun to try it! I’ve seen the power needles get somewhere between 45W and 450W on dynamic music, they really are painful at that level and the bass down to the mid-20s just doesn’t seem to break up. Being that the motors are from the M2 which is biamped with twin 1,800W amplifiers, ... I think that they can handle pretty much anything a consumer amp can throw at them in clean power.

Good luck with the experiment, should be fun. Take pictures and show us!

 

[markd51]

The more the merrier!

I can recall seeing ELP, where their stacks of JBLs made anything else look like a pocket transistor radio.

 

[Tom Brennan]

I thought about it. But from what I can see, the JBL 4367 is only setup for bi-wiring or passive bi-amping (Still using internal crossover)
I've read that active bi-amping is what one should strive for, bypassing the internal crossovers, having an active crossover sending the correct frequency band and octave (Such as it was intended with some of the older JBL 43XX monitors with the switch on the back for selecting to bypass the internal crossover)

Note that many speakers have voicing EQ circuits built into their passive crossovers. Bypassing such crossovers with an active crossover will change the intended tone of the speaker.