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JBL Dynamics Project - L200 box, 2216ND/Smith Horn/2405 Slots

hjames

hjames

We are all just walking each other home.
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Initial Plan Updated: The general plan is to get rid of the clutter of excess speakers, and build a set of "Forever Speakers,"
based on things I found I liked in other speakers I have owned (like the wooden smith horns).
It's a start down that path. And its fun to find I am better with the power tools than I thought I was!
(Though I don't think I'm up for building cabinets I want to look at for the next 10+ years)

Some of you recall when I took a pair of JBL 4320s,
moved the drivers into L200 cabinets in 2007, and grew a 3 way system out of those parts.
The final configuration used these drivers:
JBL 2234 15" woofers
JBL 2445J 2" pro drivers for mids
JBL 2405 slot drivers for highs
I sold them in 2015 back when I started another project, but remember them fondly.

When I started I had a pair of Heathkit branded Altec Valencias 2 ways in my living room.
I tried adding a high pass network and a pair of JBL 2405 slots on top, and then a pair of Great Heil tweeters,
but I've since sold off the 2405 slots, and the Heils are sidelined - not sure either added a lot to the Altec Valencia system,
and I hated the faux "Moroccan" finish of the cabinets - dated and ugly!

But I have fond memories of the custom walnut Smith horns on my old L200+ system with the 2445J pro drivers ...
there was something magical about the mids with that system.

Not sure what comes next - but - I just bought a pair of 2445J 2" drivers,
I might try Tractrix horns, or something else - but - the game is afoot!

Just for FYI - my old JBL sorta L200 3ways ...

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Well, I know you like the Smith horns- but I had outstanding results from the PT-F95HF waveguide. They're made to mount on 2451 or 2452 1.5" throat neo magnet horn drivers- but I adapted mine to work with the JBL 2447H (ceramic magnet, same as the 2445 except 1.5" throat instead of 2" throat).

They roll off at about 1000Hz, but that should be fine with a 2234 woofer. I used mine with a 2226, which has similar HF response to the 2234.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
Well, I know you like the Smith horns- but I had outstanding results from the PT-F95HF waveguide. They're made to mount on 2451 or 2452 1.5" throat neo magnet horn drivers- but I adapted mine to work with the JBL 2447H (ceramic magnet, same as the 2445 except 1.5" throat instead of 2" throat).

They roll off at about 1000Hz, but that should be fine with a 2234 woofer. I used mine with a 2226, which has similar HF response to the 2234.

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...
Sounds interesting - I've got two 2445j drivers coming next week (no rush to build yet),
But whatever I use needs to mate to them ...
'believe I also have a pair of Emilar horns stashed away ...
have to dig them out and check them closer ..
 
hjames said:
Sounds interesting - I've got two 2445j drivers coming next week (no rush to build yet),
But whatever I use needs to mate to them ...
'believe I also have a pair of Emilar horns stashed away ...
have to dig them out and check them closer ..
Click to expand...

If you have them, the Emilar EH500 radial is a very nice sounding horn ( I've used them for going on 20 years now with no plans to replace ).

Put some Radian 1245 aluminum diaphragms into those 2445's and you're away to the races.

:)
 
Dug out and took pictures of the "Emilar" horns I have - they're actually stamped Rauland-Borg RB90F
Sadly, its just a 1 inch port, so they'll be no good to me for 2" drivers.
RB90F-03.jpg RB90F-02.jpg RB90F-01.jpg
 
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The Yiuchi horns reputedly play down to 290Hz. I have my doubts about that however If your driver will get down to 500Hz then you have a much easier time with your choice of Bass driver.
There's a ton of DIY threads out there , long winter coming Heather. All that sanding will keep ypiu nice and cosy
 
A 2445 can definitely do 500Hz, if it's loaded properly in a big enough horn.

The original THX theater systems, designed by Tomlinson Holman, used dual JBL 15s (usually 2225s) vertically stacked, along with a large biradial horn using a 2445 driver, as the HF unit. The original crossover point was 500Hz- more than one article describing this system, stated that the woofers were stacked vertically, so that the vertically narrowing angle of the woofers' polar pattern at 500Hz, would be the same as the vertical polar dispersion of the horn on the 2245, at 500Hz. That made for a very consistent, even, power balance through the crossover region- and was one of the reasons the THX speakers sounded good, with consistent tonal balance, from virtually any seat in a movie theater- something which was very uncommon, beforehand...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
hjames said:
The 2445J drivers arrived this even - OMG, they are so H E A V Y!

View attachment 2669357
Click to expand...

I don't think there are many pieces of audio equipment, that are denser (in terms of mass) than those drivers.

It's for good reason, pretty much every system that JBL used them in, had extensive BRACING on the rear of the horn, to support the 2445! It's perilously easy to break off the neck of a horn with that much weight hanging on it!

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Just snagged a pair of these, just in case I go the route for Smith Horns or the like.
Gaskets are easy enough to make (cereal box cardboard worked fine last time),
and if it turns out I don't need them, I can easily resell them later.

2328-Horn-Adaptors-JBL.png
 
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Things are moving along. The 2445j drivers are here, and the 2328 JBL adapters for them arrived Monday.
I have a lead on a pair of wooden midhorns for them, and snapped up a set of Nelson Pass style modded L300 style crossovers the other day.
The possibility exists I may have some L200 Cabinets (or something similar) by November.
I've still got the Great Heil drivers for top end sizzle, and I'm optimistic about a pair of 2216nd woofers (if a pair turns up),
tho the possibilty of pair of 2234 (15") woofers like I had before would do.
 
A few contrarian suggestions after many decades of listening to and carting around far too many 2441 and 2445s. Right out of the gate replace the diaphragms with the aluminum Radian version. The titanium was an effort to get high frequency extension on long throw horns ( and to reduce warranty returns on shattered diaphragms). They are much less pleasant to listen to than the aluminum. Also having a little something between you and the 2" driver seems to help as well. There were choices made in the design of the phase plug on those drivers that other makers and later JBLs didn't suffer from. The old 2390 folded plate lenses made those drivers sound noticeably better to my ears while still providing a fairly wide pattern. They might even fit in with the mid century modern look. Pretty rare though. My set got bulldozed in a house in Annapolis along with the original grey Smith horns I owned back in the day. While I think super tweeters are a waste of money and effort above 1" drivers they really are a good idea above 2" drivers in short throw / home listening as long as you low pass the 2" drivers. You want to avoid if you can what those drivers do to the sound above about 6k.
 
Melissa wrote me and said they were available just before dinner today,
so a pair of JBL 2216ND Woofer for JBL M2 #5041785 are now ordered!
I've had a couple folks recommend the warmer sounds of the aluminum diaphrams for the 2445j,
so I'll consider that as a worthwhile upgrade after I get them up and running.
I had a nice set of wooden JBL lenses on the exponential horns of my original L200 -
it did improve the sound on those 1" drivers and horns, but since those lenses were redundant once I committed to the
external 2" pro drivers and walnut smith horns - I sold them offshore.

For some air up top - I'm not saying I will go with the Great Heils - but they are already here and it won't take a lot to hook them up to see how they mix in.

So - now I need a pair of L200 Cabinets or something similar to install my parts in :)
 
Took a few moments to test the drivers I got last week. Don't have any horns yet,
so I bolted the adapters on just to protect the diaphrams.
Demoed with "NRPS - Lyceum 1972 - Glendale Train" via Qobuz HiRes and Jolida tube amp.
Wow! Thats a palate cleanser ...
Don't know what diaphrams they have in them, but they sound great, even without the walnut horns!
LH-2445j-rear_8510.jpg LH-2445j_8509.jpg
 
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L200B-Right_topCrop8709.jpg
The speaker above is from the last pair of L200 Custom 3ways I built circa 2007 ... (foolishly sold in 2015).

Since I need to provide support for the wooden Smith horn, instead of the stacked isolators I used last time,
my current thinking is to build the crossovers into an external cabinet to sit on top of the main cabinet.
That will give me a box to easily tinker in as I try different components.
Basic needs will be the main signal in, pots to adjust mid and high levels, and 3 pairs of outs for Bass, Mids and Highs.
3way-NelsonPass Modded Crossover.png
I got a pair of these "Nelson Pass modded L300 Summit crossovers" from an eBay seller recently -
I'll sit down this week and trace out the circuits and see how accurate they are to the original Pass networks from his article.
Since I'm not actually using them with L300 Summits, I expect some tweaking will be necessary .
3way-adapter_8513.jpg 3way-alone_8511.jpg

Just ordered 4 Yung 50watt 8 ohm Lpads from Madisound - sheesh,
price has DOUBLED on them since I bought them last in 2018!
 

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