JBL LE14a odd surround problem

[jimbofish]

Ordered new surrounds for LE14a's from Rick Cobb, removed the old hardened Lansaloy surround, tested the new surrounds for dry fit and they appear to be a bit too large for the recess in the frame. Asked Rick about this and he's never had or heard of this problem before. He'll take them back, but then what do I do for replacements? According to everything else I've read, these are the best ones to use and should fit perfectly. Has anyone else ever come across this problem, and if so, how did you resolve it?

I can cram the foam into the recess, but then the inner edge of the foam sticks upward instead of down onto the cone. I've spent some time searching all the LE14a threads here and came across a few that suggested to glue it to the frame first, then to the cone. This actually makes sense because there's no room for adjusting the position on that narrow edge on the frame... it really has to be centered there first. It would be extremely difficult to glue it to the cone and still keep it centered to the frame with it being too large.

Any thoughts or experience on this plan? I've been agonizing over this for a week now and it's really frustrating me.

Here's a link to some pics of the problem over at the JBL forum:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...efoam-question&p=316768&viewfull=1#post316768

 

[Sir.Byrd]

Have you thoroughly cleaned the mounting edge?

 

[gdwrench]

Well I do know one thing here Jimbo,that is not the correct surround. The outside diameter should fit "perfectly" into that basket.That overbulge on the one side should not be happening.Before adhering,you should be able to lay the surrond on the unit "upsidedown" and the OD should fit the basket, the roll area should fit perfectly between the cone and basket with the inner flange looking nice and even around the circumfrence. You will never be doing that with the one's that you do have..You need to double check with supplier or find new source.

 

[gdwrench]

You might want to clear out your messages Jimbo....It appears you are full :yes:

 

[gdwrench]

This is how they should look.......This is a LE10-H driver but that matters not.Your fit should be just good as these,if not they are wrong.

 

[jimbofish]

Have you thoroughly cleaned the mounting edge?

Yep, down to bare metal in places.

 

[jimbofish]

Well I do know one thing here Jimbo,that is not the correct surround. The outside diameter should fit "perfectly" into that basket.That overbulge on the one side should not be happening.Before adhering,you should be able to lay the surrond on the unit "upsidedown" and the OD should fit the basket, the roll area should fit perfectly between the cone and basket with the inner flange looking nice and even around the circumfrence. You will never be doing that with the one's that you do have..You need to double check with supplier or find new source.

The supplier is the "go-to guy" that's recommended for LE surrounds. Do you have a better source for this specific surround for this driver?

FWIW I did mention in the other thread that I thought it odd that the surround fits if I turn it upside down.

 

[gdwrench]

I will inquire...........

 

[gdwrench]

FWIW I did mention in the other thread that I thought it odd that the surround fits if I turn it upside down.

Yes he can help.Go to myaudioaddiction.com they have them there. I would use the "contact us" so you can message between eachother as to not have any mistakes,his name is Tom. You can get them individually or in a kit,it's your call.

My guess is that your supplier did not package them correctly as the ones you have look like 15" surrounds.It happens,we make mistakes,we're human.

FWIW I did see the photo of where you said they fit upside down when in fact they dont. The outer lip of the surround is sitting on the face of the basket and not on it's proper flange. Not trying to be a smartass,just being observant.

good luck

 

[Sir.Byrd]

Yep, down to bare metal in places.

it should be bare metal everywhere, the surrounds will not fit very well unless there is no glue left.

 

[Copa1934]

I would add that this phenomenon is only "common" with early LE10a drivers. I've done many LE10a drivers and came across 4 (purchased from different parts of the U.S.) and none would except a standard surround. These also happened to be marked 16ohm (and per Zilch who was right on the money) they tested 7ohm (as would be expected for an 8ohm speaker). Also, they had factory cones which are easily identifiable with the factory cone stamp on the back side.

In your case, however, I do agree with others, looks like 15" surrounds there.

 

[jimbofish]

Wouldn't an LE15 be close to an inch larger diameter in cone and frame than the 14"? My math says there would be approximately a 3" difference in circumference between ODs of the two surrounds. These just aren't that far off. In the last pic I have the foam squeezed into the frame, held down by the trim ring, so it will fit. It's not visible but the inner edge of the foam then angles upward instead of down to the cone.

I would add that this phenomenon is only "common" with early LE10a drivers. I've done many LE10a drivers and came across 4 (purchased from different parts of the U.S.) and none would except a standard surround. These also happened to be marked 16ohm (and per Zilch who was right on the money) they tested 7ohm (as would be expected for an 8ohm speaker). Also, they had factory cones which are easily identifiable with the factory cone stamp on the back side.

In your case, however, I do agree with others, looks like 15" surrounds there.

Hmmm... How did you repair the 4 that the standard surround wouldn't fit?

Are you saying these may be oddball LE14a's that are "un-refoamable"? :tears:

it should be bare metal everywhere, the surrounds will not fit very well unless there is no glue left.

The only thing left is some of the factory paint.

Yes he can help.Go to myaudioaddiction.com they have them there. I would use the "contact us" so you can message between eachother as to not have any mistakes,his name is Tom. You can get them individually or in a kit,it's your call.

My guess is that your supplier did not package them correctly as the ones you have look like 15" surrounds.It happens,we make mistakes,we're human.

FWIW I did see the photo of where you said they fit upside down when in fact they dont. The outer lip of the surround is sitting on the face of the basket and not on it's proper flange. Not trying to be a smartass,just being observant.

good luck

That pic (#2) had the foam laying right-side up. Pic #1 was taken today with the foam inverted and fitting nicely into the frame.

 

[Copa1934]

Wouldn't an LE15 be close to an inch larger diameter in cone and frame than the 14"? My math says there would be approximately a 3" difference in circumference between ODs of the two surrounds. These just aren't that far off. In the last pic I have the foam squeezed into the frame, held down by the trim ring, so it will fit. It's not visible but the inner edge of the foam then angles upward instead of down to the cone.



Hmmm... How did you repair the 4 that the standard surround wouldn't fit?

Are you saying these may be oddball LE14a's that are "un-refoamable"? :tears:



The only thing left is some of the factory paint.



That pic (#2) had the foam laying right-side up. Pic #1 was taken today with the foam inverted and fitting nicely into the frame.

On the LE10's I ordered by dimension rather than my make/model. The cones on mine are 1/8" smaller in diameter, so barely 1/16" of a lip makes contact. The replacements fit nice but are a tad stiffer than what is recommended. If it weren't for the number of speakers I've done I might not otherwise have noticed the difference. Only problem is two wound up guinea pigs and are currently not usable, maybe even non-salvageable due to the depth of the lip to face of spider mount being shallower. It's almost as though the lip in the frame for the surround were cut too deep, which in turn required a shorter and narrower cone (all else remaining the same, ie cone taper, etc.).

Someone will happily correct me, but I do recall reading a few posts where JBL farmed out some manufacturing to meet demand. I don't recall the model though I'm thinking the D130? If any other speakers were farmed out there is a distinct possibility something could be amiss, however, I'm more inclined to believe that the surrounds could be wrong/bad before I'll believe the frame is odd. I believe it was Gordon who confirmed the same issue with an LE10 as what I experienced, so I know I'm not nuts on that one. Also it was found to be only early serial numbers, though where exactly it begins is remaining a mystery.

Try to measure the ID and OD of the surrounds you have and post those dimensions. someone with experience with LE14's should be able to say if they are off.

 

[Sir.Byrd]

Here's what I would do, I would raise up the cone with a AA battery and glue the surround to the cone first. If you need to you can trim off about 1/16" of the outside edge so it will fit in the frame better. Scissors work for this.
Then just sit and wait for the glue to dry, pushing it down when you need to.

 

[GordonW]

I've run into this problem, occasionally, several times over the years.

Sometimes, it's as simple as a slightly mis-cut batch of surrounds. Usually, the solution is exactly as Sir.Byrd described- get out a pair of sharp scissors, and trim down the outer circumference of the flange a bit...

Though, I'm hesitant about leaving a battery attached to the terminals for that long... I'd be inclined to just do the outer edge first, THEN the cone. That's how I usually do LE14s...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[jimbofish]

Gordon,

I came across an old post of yours about the LE14 refoam and I'd decided to do the edge first, cone second method. Seems like it should work the best.

I don't think I'll trim the edges as there's precious little material there to start with.

BTW I've already got the dust caps cut and shims in place so the battery method is moot.

Thanks...

 

[Copa1934]

I've run into this problem, occasionally, several times over the years.

Sometimes, it's as simple as a slightly mis-cut batch of surrounds. Usually, the solution is exactly as Sir.Byrd described- get out a pair of sharp scissors, and trim down the outer circumference of the flange a bit...

Though, I'm hesitant about leaving a battery attached to the terminals for that long... I'd be inclined to just do the outer edge first, THEN the cone. That's how I usually do LE14s...

Regards,
Gordon.

I think that is the beauty of the cast speakers, at least with JBL. You can do the outside first with a high degree of certainty the surround and cone will line up fine. Stamped speakers are too risky to use this method.

 

[jimbofish]

After some delays, I've finally got both surrounds installed... just waiting for the dustcaps to dry before testing. I did glue them frame first, then cone, and it appears to have worked just fine... nothing's rubbing! Gluing them to the back of the cone would have been much easier though since it's flat and smoother than the front. I wouldn't suggest anyone doing these as a first re-foam.

IMHO the surrounds that Rick sent were fine. For some reason they seemed to have flattened out or "relaxed" so that they seemed too large. Dry-fitting them onto the speaker and leaving them for a few days seemed to let them shrink back to their proper shape. I see no reason to think his surrounds were incorrect or defective. :thmbsp:

I'll post some pics along with my listening impression ASAP.

 

[jimbofish]

At first listen the cones seemed a bit tight, so I let them play for a while while I did some other stuff. After a few hours the bass was noticeably better. They certainly don't hit you in the face with bass but it's definitely there... smooth, low, and seeming to rise from the floor. Very nice.

The upper range seems much smoother and cleaner, now that the caps have been replaced and the HF pot cleaned.

I A-B'ed them with L80t's and there's no comparison, literally. They don't sound anything alike. Completely different voicing, at least in the short time I had to compare. I'll need to give longer, closer listen to pick out what's different... and to decide if I want to re-do the existing cabs or make new ones, possibly larger.

Attached pics as promised...

 

[barredowl]

I hope you refoamed those LE-10s in the back of the cone. Those are my babies.