Jelco arms- where it improves on the Technics SL-1200

[KentTeffeteller]

Paul,

Another area where the Jelco arm is better on is the stock wiring. Especially over new stock 1200's with dodgy stock wiring. Agree about the end stub needing some damping vastly. I also say upgrading headshell wiring is another way to upgrade the stock arm performance too (and it's inexpensive).

 

[jfine]

Snapped these photos to show one of the reasons the Jelco has it's leg up on the Technics SL-1200 stock arm.

One other reason it might have it's leg up, (wiring, damping, etc., aside) is the armboard used for mounting.

Hard to make an assumption unless both use the same armboard/mounting design.

Has anyone tried to mount a stock arm to a different armboard, or mounted the Jelco to the stock 1200 armboard?

I wouldn't expect anyone to try either, but, well there it is.

 

[thedelihaus]

Paul,

Another area where the Jelco arm is better on is the stock wiring. Especially over new stock 1200's with dodgy stock wiring. Agree about the end stub needing some damping vastly. I also say upgrading headshell wiring is another way to upgrade the stock arm performance too (and it's inexpensive).

Agreed- the stock Jelco wire is superior to the Technics wire.

And one can go further by upgrading wire in both the Jelco and Technics.

But the Jelco wire is by no means chopped liver.

One other reason it might have it's leg up, (wiring, damping, etc., aside) is the armboard used for mounting.

Hard to make an assumption unless both use the same armboard/mounting design.

Has anyone tried to mount a stock arm to a different armboard, or mounted the Jelco to the stock 1200 armboard?

I wouldn't expect anyone to try either, but, well there it is.

Are you talking the plinth, or the arm base? The design of the Technics arm base kind of throws a monkey wrench into doing this.

I have seen a few folk adapt the Technics VTA base to take other arms but it requires machining.

 

[jfine]

Are you talking the plinth, or the arm base?

The circular piece you will need to mount the Jelco to a 1200, but if that becomes part of a custom plinth, then you have an even bigger monkey wrench.

I'm basically saying that it's not really a fair comparison, arm to arm, without the mounting design being equal. Not easy to do in this case.

 

[thedelihaus]

The circular piece you will need to mount the Jelco to a 1200, but if that becomes part of a custom plinth, then you have an even bigger monkey wrench.

I'm basically saying that it's not really a fair comparison, arm to arm, without the mounting design being equal. Not easy to do in this case.

By mounting the Jelco to a circular piece that then fits into the 1200, you have introduced another set of variables.



What this thread is intended for, is to show a handful of areas the Jelco is superior, and adapting these identified sections somehow to the Technics stock arm.

The Jelco and the Technics are different enough that trying to get them to sound the same is going to an effortvin frustration.

The goal however is to goose the Technics up a few notches in improvement.


I am equally a proponent of tweaking the stock arm as I am of adapting the Jelco arm- both rewarding efforts.

 

[jfine]

What this thread is intended for, is to show a handful of areas the Jelco is superior, and adapting these identified sections somehow to the Technics stock arm.

You must mount it, listen to it, in order to determine sonic superiority on your system in your room with your source.

The goal however is to goose the Technics up a few notches in improvement.

The claims of arms sounding better are thru listening to the arm. The superior areas really can only be substantiated when listened to. You need to mount it for that.

 

[thedelihaus]

The Technics arm has been tested and shows slight resonance.

This manifested itself in the tonearm tube. And around tone arm end weight/stub.

The Technics tone arm is hollow in the end stub, and arm tube.

The Jelco tests less resonance. It has a solid end stub and foam filled arm tube.


My point is not favoring the sound of one arm over the other- I own both.


It is simply picking out tangible areas that the Jelco construction is more substantial in construction and finish.

Identify these areas, identify the areas of the Technics that could benefit from attention, and apply them.


If you want to.

 

[zirtico]

Sorry to interrupt, but I'm curious; noob question, but what really makes one arm better than another? I know the bearings are important. And how do you test for resonance?

 

[Trower]

First- the solid end stub. One can fill the hollow technics end stub with foam or silicone to mimic the solid, enclosed end stub of the Jelco.

I think that is a huge huge issue with the Technics arm. And even filling it with silicone or foam, while making it less resonant, sucks the life out of the arm, IMO. I think that if it had a solid endstub it would be a much better arm:yes:

 

[Dr. Ear]

I put an O-ring between the auxiliary weight and the arm stub. This has changed the resonance somewhat. The sound you hear when tapping the arm tube with a pen is different.

 

[slate1]

Have you guys tried the Resonance Cap KAB sells for $5? It solves most of the problem with the "ringing" end stub in a similar fashion to Dr.Ear's o-ring solution:

KAB Tonearm Resonance Cap

Click on "Resonance Cap" in the "Tonearm" box.

 

[thedelihaus]

I bought azfistful of Kab's caps- nifty little things for $5.

I use it along with additional stub damping.

 

[thedelihaus]

I put an O-ring between the auxiliary weight and the arm stub. This has changed the resonance somewhat. The sound you hear when tapping the arm tube with a pen is different.

Clever!

 

[Cantabury Guy]

Paul,

Any opinion on the KAB damper system with regard to high compliance cartridges ie Shure V15 IV and Pickering XVS 3000?

 

[similost]

Great stuff Paul... The 1200 is a great table, but I believe it suffers greatly because of the arm..

Personally, I found it easier to sell my 1200 and replace it with a nice JVC...

 

[finnbow]

Great stuff Paul... The 1200 is a great table, but I believe it suffers greatly because of the arm..

Personally, I found it easier to sell my 1200 and replace it with a nice JVC...

Hey, lighten up! Some people aren't into easy.

 

[thedelihaus]

I think that is a huge huge issue with the Technics arm. And even filling it with silicone or foam, while making it less resonant, sucks the life out of the arm, IMO. I think that if it had a solid endstub it would be a much better arm:yes:

Maybe I should try to fill the tune with JB weld....???? Hmmmmm.......

 

[fiddlefye]

Interesting thread. I'm looking forward to getting to hear the results of my own Sumiko MMT (courtesy of delihaus) soon. I'm very impressed with the construction quality and sense of rigidity. I think I'll probably try making up a mount for it on the AT base for my SP-15 for a starter get a feel for working with it, then on to building a plinth finally (life gets in the way sometimes). Then some mods?

 

[thedelihaus]

Great stuff Paul... The 1200 is a great table, but I believe it suffers greatly because of the arm..

Personally, I found it easier to sell my 1200 and replace it with a nice JVC...

I just sold my JVC-QL-50- it was a nicer table, I think, than the stock SL-1200mkII.


But the technics, both arm and deck, are so uber- tweakable, it's a blast to mod....

 

[BHamm]

I'm comparing my SL-1200M3D w/ Jelco SA-750D to my new SL-1210M5G with stock arm. They both sound great!

How close are the arms in effective mass?