Jelco SA-370H opinions

[Muddywaters]

I'm embarking on a SP25 project which should eventually end up with at minimum 2 arms most likely a final plinth will be capable of 3.

I'm considering the SA-370H's available on the auction site from a couple sellers and have a a wtb post in Barter Town which majik47 has graciously responded to and corresponded very helpfully with me.

I am seeking thoughts, experience and opinions on the arm in question as a decent quality reasonable all rounder and definitely want to stay with a sme bayonet headshell for the initial stages with the SP25. Moving up in the Jelco range to the current 750 starts doubling the cost which I'd prefer not doing to start unless there was some compelling reason to or some major problem with 370H I haven't discovered yet. I would consider other options as well.

I have a wide variety of cartridges and realize they all can't be optimized but to give you and idea high to low compliance they run the gamut from a Shure VST III with jico/SAS to my Denon rebodied 103's with , AT440mla, Stanton 680EL/vivid etc. On the moving coil front I thinking this arm would be very good for my AT 33mono and Dynavector 20XH and 50X MKII.

I have two KAB'd 1200's and an Aries so this won't be lonely. Darn this site you guys are bad news

 

[MWalt]

If you can justify the money I would get the Jelco 750 with the 10" arm. That would fit on the SP25 plinth and really sound good.

Nothing wrong with the Jelco 370, but IMHO it isn't in the same league as the 750 and it also doesn't have the 5 pin DIN plug at the base.

 

[vinylkid58]

The 370H might be the better option, IF you want to run higher compliance cartridges, as it's effective mass would be substantially less than the 10" 750.

I have a 370H on my LP12, which replaced the original Akito. Sounds great with an AT33PTG, and to a lesser degree, with stock DL-103's. You'll most likely need the heavier C-weight with a rebodied DL-103.

jeff

 

[MWalt]

The 370H might be the better option, IF you want to run higher compliance cartridges, as it's effective mass would be substantially less than the 10" 750.

I have a 370H on my LP12, which replaced the original Akito. Sounds great with an AT33PTG, and to a lesser degree, with stock DL-103's. You'll most likely need the heavier C-weight with a rebodied DL-103.

jeff

That is a good point about the higher compliance carts.

 

[Muddywaters]

@ MWalt I won't have a Technics base. I can spend the money if I want but trying to weigh it carefully. I'd be looking at adding a more high compliance friendly arm down the road and and 12" Denon 103 loving type too. If I decided to bail out of the project after playing a bit before adding additional arms I'd not have too high a sunk cost.

If I was going to go up to the 750 I'd probably jump to the 12" for the slight premium over the 10" version. Although maybe the 10" would be easier to move to someone down the line? With cable needed it will be more than double the 370 no matter which 750. I realize I'll need to come up with some termination for the 370. I would terminate with a high quality female rca and run a low cap cable from there.

@vinylkid58 do you happen to have verified specs on the 370H effective mass? The only thing I've seen so far is the specs given on one of the ebay listing which indicates 20 mg lateral and horizontal which. I haven't been looking yet but haven't seen a heavier cw anywhere for the 370. The 750 options on the auction site do include that which is nice.

Discrepancy between ve download of the 750 manual stating 30mg hor 20mg ver and the auction site listing 20/20... Just went to the Jelco site and it is 30/20. The 750 will favor a lower compliance perhaps depending on what the 370 is actually.

Hashing out with you is most helpful guys thanks. Keep the thoughts coming.

 

[MWalt]

Scott,

That does clarify things somewhat. If you are building a plinth for the SP25 then you MUST go with a 12" arm! Man, a thomas schick tonearm with that Soundsmith wood bodied Denon you have would be the cats ass....

Also, I didn't mean to imply that the 370 is any slouch; I think it is a fine arm. I bet that Dynavector would be a great match with it.

 

[Muddywaters]

Hey Mark, what have you been reading my mind? I have had my eye on the Schick for awhile. Also been peeking at the Riggle and dreaming of them set up with the woodie or the aluminum one when it gets back from SoundSmith.

I hope I'm interpreting the spec correctly on those Jelco's. It isn't stated as effective mass so I'm wondering if the lateral/horizontal is a decent surrogate for the eff mass?

Hopefully others will chime in with thoughts and maybe Jeff has the scoop on the 370 since he has one. Be nice if he did have the manual/specs.

Regardless his experience with it suggests that the 370's flexibility/suitability would be there at least with a range of compliance carts if not my heavy bodied 103's.

 

[vinylkid58]

Hopefully others will chime in with thoughts and maybe Jeff has the scoop on the 370 since he has one. Be nice if he did have the manual/specs.

Sorry, no manual, but pretty sure the stock 370H effective mass is 16-18gram range with the stock headshell, which is lighter than the Sumiko HS-12. I think the heavier headshell + heavy C-weight would be advised for low compliance DL-103's.

I'm pretty sure the 370/750 share the same c-weight stub diameter. I've seen pics of a 370H with the heavier c-weight. I don't have one myself.

Edit: Ok, i found the photo I was looking for, that show the heavy c-weight, along with the HS-12 headshell and an Ebony bodied 103

jeff

 

[MWalt]

Jeff, do the Jelco 750 counterweights fit on the 370? I believe that they do on the Sumiko MMT (which I have on my Technics).

 

[MWalt]

Hey Mark, what have you been reading my mind? I have had my eye on the Schick for awhile. Also been peeking at the Riggle and dreaming of them set up with the woodie or the aluminum one when it gets back from SoundSmith.

I hope I'm interpreting the spec correctly on those Jelco's. It isn't stated as effective mass so I'm wondering if the lateral/horizontal is a decent surrogate for the eff mass?

Hopefully others will chime in with thoughts and maybe Jeff has the scoop on the 370 since he has one. Be nice if he did have the manual/specs.

Regardless his experience with it suggests that the 370's flexibility/suitability would be there at least with a range of compliance carts if not my heavy bodied 103's.

My Sumiko Premier MMT was the predecessor to the current Jelco 750 and they both share an effedtive mass of 20g. I believe Jeff is correct about a slightly lower mass on the 370H.

 

[Muddywaters]

Sorry, no manual, but pretty sure the stock 370H effective mass is 16-18gram range with the stock headshell, which is lighter than the Sumiko HS-12. I think the heavier headshell + heavy C-weight would be advised for low compliance DL-103's.

I'm pretty sure the 370/750 share the same c-weight stub diameter. I've seen pics of a 370H with the heavier c-weight. I don't have one myself.

Edit: Ok, i found the photo I was looking for, that show the heavy c-weight, along with the HS-12 headshell and an Ebony bodied 103

jeff

Thanks much Jeff! This info pushes me more strongly towards the 370 for sure especially having access to the heavier counterweight. I have Sumiko 'shells too might have some heavier somewhere.

I was wondering where the MMT fell in the scheme I thought it was closely related to the 370 Mark, thanks.

 

[vinylkid58]

This info pushes me more strongly towards the 370 for sure especially having access to the heavier counterweight. I have Sumiko 'shells too might have some heavier somewhere.

IMHO, the MMT and the 370H are basically one in the same, except for the heavier headshell on the MMT, and a slightly different anti-skate knob. I believe the MMT also has the 5-pin plug, which the 370H doesn't, so that may be of some benefit.

jeff

 

[majick47]

Muddywaters this may not be the overall design direction you want to go with which was a large plinth with multi arms but it could be a simpler alternative and I'll throw it out for you to consider. Go back to the Technics SH15B1/2/3 plinth for the SP-25. Get a B500 tonearm base and any of the 500 series tonearm wands or a EPA-A250 wand that will match whatever cartridge and compliance your going to want to use. You can switch out the Technics tonearm wands easly in less than a minute with out having to disconnect and then reconnect the tonearm cable for each arm your going to use. Technics had about six arm wands that would cover just about any cartridge weight/compliance and in the end might be a lot simpler setup to live with never mind an excellent long term investment. It's all OEM off the shelf, not cheap, not easy to come by but far from impossible and unlike custom items is easly resellable since it is stock/OEM Technics which has only one way to go, up, up and away $.

 

[hags]

Had the 370H but got rid of it in favor of a Micro Seiki MA 505 for $50 more than I paid for the 370H.

It's a good deal for the money to be sure. Not as refined as the MA 505, nor are the bearings as smooth.

I prefered my Syntec S220 over it sonically.

Not to dump on it but I just wasn't overly impressed.

Like I said , good for the money.

 

[Muddywaters]

Really appreciate all your input gents! Head is swimming a bit with various scenarios.

Maj: I'm still keeping your Denon option in mind. It would keep the budget down but makes me look at picking up an arm that truly could do justice to my 103's too. :yes: I will keep the Technics in mind also for down the road need; to do some educational work.

There is Japanese gent on the auction site that has a number of very cool arms available: Denon 304 & 308 broadcast arms (same $ range as a Jelco 750 12" w/cable), Micro Seiki 202L and a MA-505 which Hags brought up though the 505 at the BIN is double the 370... I'm digging up info on them

Thanks and keep the ideas coming.

 

[taskerc]

Jelco and the multitude of variants

The 250 and 750s are all well known, as is the MMT version. I have a 370 that I am not currently using, but I see to remember it is 10" in length. I also have the LAD variant which is a 370 version with iirc a shorter 9" arm. Both were OEM versions which is why they had no installed DIN plug for cabling. On both mine , the bearings seemed rough, but a small tweak on the arm Bering screws on the side resolved that and they are both nice and smooth now -in fact as smooth as I have ever experienced.

I keep meaning to get rid of my Jelco and lad arms but just can't seem to do it. My rega p5 is my main player and I like it very much, but those arms are just so nice I may resurrect my lenco idler project.

The 370 and lad were very nice with the sumiko head shell and my aluminum bodied denon dl103r-very nice indeed.

 

[ehoove]

I too had the 9" LAD versiom and found it a very nice arm once the bearings were tweeked a bit. I have a 750D and it is superior to the LAD, but the LAD was a tremendous bang for the buck Arm. IMHO
Regards,
Jim

 

[majick47]

A 10" tonearm is a very good length that is also a good compromise between a 9" and 12" and can be fairly easly fit on most turntables.

 

[Muddywaters]

The 370 is just a shade under 9 1/2" - 239mm

I'm bouncing forth 'n back between the 370 and the 750 10" version. :headscrat I've been reading in all the usual haunts some of you folks have come in on some those threads too :yes:

The consensus seems to be the 370 is a fine arm (especially for the $) but the 750 ups the ante; is clearly superior. Better bearings, better wiring and the termination would be a neater solution. I'm thinking the difference between them re: mass might be actually very small and can be accommodated with proper judicious head-shell selection. Neither arm is going to be ideal for some of my mm variants but that is less critical for at this time.

If the SP25 project has legs I'll add a low mass something to handle the chores properly. Makes me miss the Black Widow ADC XLM MkII 126 I had stolen back in about '80

I think I'm slowly talking myself into going the extra step up to the 750.

Anybody know if there is a vta solution for either the 370 or 750 on the market?

Thanks again...

 

[taskerc]

The 370 and the LAD had collars that allowed quite simple adjustment of VTA. He weakness in my ind was that the collar screws tend to mangle the tone arm post over time if multiple adjustments have been made - and it is highly manual in approach. No nice turn something to raise or lower arm post arrangement here :-(