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JICO SAS Discontinued

needlestein said:
If that's a rebadged Pfanstiehl hyperbolic, that's a good price. I just tried mine out in my V15V body and it sounds so close to the original VN5MR that I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference between the two in a blind test. Definitely sounds much more stock than the SAS.
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except the stylus you link to is hyper elliptical, not hyperbolic............you sure is a Phanstiehl and not a EVG/Jico?
 
Needles, you're mentioning the Pfanstiehl 4772-DHE and the VN5MR in the same breath. Just to be clear, the Pfanstiehl (4)772 group is for the V15 Type IV and the VN5MR is for the V15 Type V. The Pfanstiehl group for the Type V is (4)773.

John
 
marcmorin said:
except the stylus you link to is hyper elliptical, not hyperbolic............you sure is a Phanstiehl and not a EVG/Jico?
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Could be that it's both. Check out where it's made.

4772-DHE.jpg

And the hyperbolic vs. hyper elliptical thing appeas to be Pfanstiehl's fault.

John
 
needlestein said:
No. I'm saying that I have a Pfanstiehl hyperbolic, the 4772-DHE, and it's fantastic. It sounds like the original VN5MR. .
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As Boreas pointed out, Phan is calling the HE stylus a hyperbolic. hyperbolic is a term I think Shure came up with to suggest a contour not unlike a shibata, only to find it had 0 advantage over their .2 X .7 stone. the DHE should be hypereliptical.
 
needlestein said:
It's the 4772. It says it's for the IV and it looks like a IV stylus, but it plays in the V. It's what Gary Stork gave me to use when I asked for a stylus.

If it's "only" HE and not hyperbolic, to my ears it doesn't matter. It sounds like the MR. Perhaps an RF graph will show that it doesn't plot the same. My ears don't care.
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Yup! Physical fit is no problem. I was thinking more along the lines of the electrical differences between the Type IV and Type V. But, if it sounds good to you, then it's all good.

V15/IV 1,380 ohms/500mH
V15/V 850 ohms/330mH

John
 
needlestein said:
It's the 4772. It says it's for the IV and it looks like a IV stylus, but it plays in the V. It's what Gary Stork gave me to use when I asked for a stylus.

If it's "only" HE and not hyperbolic, to my ears it doesn't matter. It sounds like the MR. Perhaps an RF graph will show that it doesn't plot the same. My ears don't care.
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Ummmmm........an HE cut is above a hyperbolic. HE being the first real line contact, where the hyperbolic "may" be a line contact under certain conditions. The Shibata cut was a way to get more relief before and after tracing area to better prevent TIM especially albums cut with the 40khz.
Hyperbolic "mimicked" it without being cut like it, assuming so royalties didn't have to be paid. Again, Shure found no advantage of the hyperbolic cut over 2X7 cut in trackability. The HE has a longer scanning area, and a smaller minor radius than standard Shibata and hyperbolic.
 
You mean "tracing ability", right? Trackability(tm) is avoidance of mistracking. It has everything to do with suspension, mass, and resonance, and almost nothing to do with tip shape.
 
Needles, that "Designed for use in: Shure V-15 type V cartridges, Suitable replacement for: SHURE VN5xHE and VN5xMR" looks really wrong. It appears to be based on the aftermarket brushless 771 group styli for the Era IV M97. It looks like the shank's too big for the V15/V too. I'd give this thing a wide berth.

John

s-l300.jpg
s-l1600.jpg
 
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needlestein said:
Wait, so .2 x .7 is hyperelliptical? But all I read says that .2 x .7 is potentially the most damaging stylus shape because of its low contact area while the hyperbolics have the greatest contact area. Tap."
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no no no. look at the list presented. the Shure chart shows the tracing area of the hyperbolic a 3 X 7. pretty much the scanning area of the original Shibata. The HE listing of scanning area is one side.......not listed in that chart is how far apart the two sides are. where the .2 X , .3 X, etc tell you they are .7mil apart. However in the post about Shure developing the HE stylus (and other useful info) shows the distance of the scanning areas to be 1 mil apart.
 
needlestein said:
That's what's sort of in my head. According to that chart, the .2 x .7 elliptical is referred to as a biradial--Shure's name for the elliptical.

So my Pfanstiehl "hyperbolic" is really a hyperelliptical of 0.2 x 1.5 mils, which is also the same size cut as some hyperbolics, right?
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The Super Shibata is probably a hyper elliptical.......but I'm sure they didn't want to pay royalties either and call the SS a HE. The original Shibata and hyperbolic were the same size in scanning area.
 
needlestein said:
That's what's sort of in my head. According to that chart, the .2 x .7 elliptical is referred to as a biradial--Shure's name for the elliptical.

So my Pfanstiehl "hyperbolic" is really a hyperelliptical of 0.2 x 1.5 mils, which is also the same size cut as some hyperbolics, right?
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"Hyperbolic" is the Shure trademark name for the short live Shure version of the Shibata.

See the following for shape comparison:
http://cdn.shure.com/user_guide/upload/1506/us_pro_sek-2_ug.pdf :thumbsup:

See sample stylus description:
http://cdn.shure.com/user_guide/upload/1614/us_pro_ss4_ug.pdf
 
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Highly recommended to the curious: the text and illustrations of Shure's 1978 Technical Seminar (abridged version in the May and June 1978 issues of Audio). In this case, you want to scroll down to the part titled "The Hyperelliptical Tip" by
B. W. Jakobs and S. A. Mastricola. [updated link May 2020, removed dead link Mar 2022, added new live link Sep 2022]
 
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wualta said:
Highly recommended to the curious: the text and illustrations of Shure's 1978 Tech Seminar. In this case, you want to scroll down to the part titled "The Hyperelliptical Tip" by
B. W. Jakobs and S. A. Mastricola.
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This is actually an outstanding page all on it's own. Practically everything you ever wondered about the V15 series is explained on it. Incredible find, Wualta! :thumbsup:
 
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You're [both] welcome! There's a nice drawing showing clearly the dimensions and other handy physical details of the Shure Hyperelliptical, including the 1mil spacing marcmorin mentioned. The text details how they tested the glue joint that holds the diamond spike in place. Great stuff, worth going back to again and again, even if you believe that "white papers" like these are mere company propaganda.
 
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boreas said:
Needles, you're mentioning the Pfanstiehl 4772-DHE and the VN5MR in the same breath. Just to be clear, the Pfanstiehl (4)772 group is for the V15 Type IV and the VN5MR is for the V15 Type V. The Pfanstiehl group for the Type V is (4)773.

John
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I read all the way though this thread and had to come back to here where I got lost. Even though needles is using a V15 Type V, is he saying that he loves the Pfanstiehl stylus that belongs in the Type IV better than an SAS? If I wanted to see if this is so great in my Type IV, I would get a Pfanstiehl 4772-DHE?
 
drummergrl said:
I read all the way though this thread and had to come back to here where I got lost. Even though needles is using a V15 Type V, is he saying that he loves the Pfanstiehl stylus that belongs in the Type IV better than an SAS? If I wanted to see if this is so great in my Type IV, I would get a Pfanstiehl 4772-DHE?
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Dunno. I think he's saying that he can hear no difference between the Pfanstiehl and the original Shure. Maybe he'll tell us how it compares to the SAS.

John
 
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