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JICO SAS Discontinued

tnmike1 said:
Just don't understand why folk want to jump on this SAS. Didn't Jico say it was working on an improved stylus? So why not wait for the new one? Kinda like spending bucks on a new car that's just been discontinued. Strange
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Once bitten, twice shy. I know I missed when Shure and Stanton stopped their OEM styli. I don't want to be caught like that again.

And JICO will of course say "new and improved" but past experience has shown, that's usually more marketing than truth.

Reading between the lines of noisemodule's posts, it sounds like whatever JICO does come up with will be good, but won't be able to match up to the SAS.
 
tnmike1 said:
Just don't understand why folk want to jump on this SAS. Didn't Jico say it was working on an improved stylus? So why not wait for the new one? Kinda like spending bucks on a new car that's just been discontinued. Strange
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It was not mentioned that the eventual replacement will be better. They lost a key component and hope to be able to develop a quality replacement. It may or may not be better according to the 14 pages of SAS love posted here.

I'm just seeing folks buying more than one and I know there are some damn fine cartridges out there that many would prefer to the SASed models currently in use but the swap may require an MC amp of some sort. But here on ak more gear doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
tnmike1 said:
Just don't understand why folk want to jump on this SAS. Didn't Jico say it was working on an improved stylus? So why not wait for the new one? Kinda like spending bucks on a new car that's just been discontinued. Strange
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When I hear parts no longer available and "subject matter expert" retiring soon I have to think that stocking up on something I really like is a good move.

Jico could very well come up with something different, that they say is better, that actually is better. I hope they do. I work in the engineering development and production of complex components and systems for aerospace. After 35 years I have seen many companies lose their ability to innovate and maintain quality and value when key people leave. People are much harder to replace than parts.

Since I loved the SAS I thought it smart to get one before they are gone, especially at list price. It was an easy decision to make.

Cheers, Bob
 
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needlestein said:
I totally understand hoarding in this hobby. Things come and go. Really great stuff just ups and disappears. Sometimes it reemerges at triple the price or worse. A stitch in time kinda...

I'd have bought a couple myself if I could have afforded it, but I'm going to have a $400 bill real soon for a couple of Expert Stylus retips with Paratrace diamonds and sapphire cantilevers. If they sound at least as nice as the SAS, I'll be very happy. If they sound better than the SAS, my SAS might go up for auction.

Naaahhhh!!!!

I had you going for a second, right?
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Perhaps it looks like hoarding, but my real goal is "future-proofing" my systems. As we have seen prices rise just during this post, I have concerns over cost to performance issues (being an engineer, this is always in the front), and of course, the availability of some key ingredients. We also all know that accidents happen, and if you like the cartridge, that could lead to some very unhappy times. I've had this cartridge in a bin for years (with the wrong stylus) and never gave it any thought until I acquired another table, and a need arose. For (at the time) $140 I could have a fairly quality cartridge running, so I made the plunge. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I had no idea how the cartridge would sound with really any correct stylus, let alone the SAS. This has been a most pleasant surprise. It is (IMO) a terrific performer (even in its less then desirable Baerwald alignment (Lofgren A)), and it soon became ear candy. The struggle was to come to terms with the additional, back-up stylus that was now (a week later), at $240. While it was painful, I would have been mad at myself for not getting another, backup stylii.

'ner
 
WaynerN said:
Perhaps it looks like hoarding, but my real goal is "future-proofing" my systems. As we have seen prices rise just during this post, I have concerns over cost to performance issues (being an engineer, this is always in the front), and of course, the availability of some key ingredients. We also all know that accidents happen, and if you like the cartridge, that could lead to some very unhappy times. I've had this cartridge in a bin for years (with the wrong stylus) and never gave it any thought until I acquired another table, and a need arose. For (at the time) $140 I could have a fairly quality cartridge running, so I made the plunge. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I had no idea how the cartridge would sound with really any correct stylus, let alone the SAS. This has been a most pleasant surprise. It is (IMO) a terrific performer (even in its less then desirable Baerwald alignment (Lofgren A)), and it soon became ear candy. The struggle was to come to terms with the additional, back-up stylus that was now (a week later), at $240. While it was painful, I would have been mad at myself for not getting another, backup stylii.

'ner
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Hard to argue with that. The great thing about Jico SAS was the availability of high quality replacement stylus for an affordable price - I hate it when there's something great sounding but for styli your left with trying to find the occasional NOS one that pops up. Unfortunately with the SAS discontinuation that is gone, I just hope they come up with a decent replacement that retains the great bang for the buck.

I recall you singing praises for the AT-440MLa, do you have experience with the AT-150MLx? It just seems to me personally rather than pay $200+ for the SAS I'd get an ATN-150MLx stylus for $190 or whatever you can find them for these days, I think under $200 anyway, plus it would be an interesting comparison.
 
Thanks needlestein.

muovimies, Yes I am also a fan of the AT440MLa, and if I did need a replacement styli, I'd go for the 150 rather then the 440 (for just around $10 more, its a no-brainer), however, I do have currently (and hoarding yes!), a half dozen styli and 2 other cartridges with styli NIB. So, (yes I did hoard these) I have a total of 6 carts and 12 styli in use or in storage. I also recently bought an AT120e/b to be used on older, "grinder" LPs, to be interchanged with my new SL1210MK5 table. I did also find out that is the same body as the 440, so it can have interchangeability with most of my cartridge collection, which is a real good thing in my books. Thank God I don't have any more Shure bodies laying around......

:)
 
WaynerN said:
Thanks needlestein.

muovimies, Yes I am also a fan of the AT440MLa, and if I did need a replacement styli, I'd go for the 150 rather then the 440 (for just around $10 more, its a no-brainer), however, I do have currently (and hoarding yes!), a half dozen styli and 2 other cartridges with styli NIB. So, (yes I did hoard these) I have a total of 6 carts and 12 styli in use or in storage. I also recently bought an AT120e/b to be used on older, "grinder" LPs, to be interchanged with my new SL1210MK5 table. I did also find out that is the same body as the 440, so it can have interchangeability with most of my cartridge collection, which is a real good thing in my books. Thank God I don't have any more Shure bodies laying around......

:)
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How do you like the SAS as compared to the AT's (440/150)? I'm asking because with all this going on, I was thinking "thank god we still have AT".
 
The Shure M95HE with the SAS stylus is different then the ATs. I think this is all due to the stylus shape of the SAS. Certainly, I would not suggest doing any fancy rake angle other then keeping the tonearm flat (parallel to record). I'm kind of a slow learner when it comes to A-Bing things. I need to play a bunch of LPs that I'm familiar with to know if I like the sound-stage, top to bottom performance or if I notice any "unusual" behavior(s).

Time to spin and I think I'll start with some Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.......

'ner
 
Been doing comparisons between 2 different 2a3 amps the last 30hrs while the wife is on a business trip.
 
wualta said:
Well, it depends on whose graphs you're looking at, but my ear, at least, seems to agree with the posted graphs that show a tiltdown instead of a rolloff, a gradual 1.5 to 2dB/octave slope from 1 or 2 kHz down to 10kHz where it flattens and goes to 20kHz, or simply continues straight down to 20kHz.

It's not quite like any other Shure I've seen, even the broadcast ones with a shaped HF response curve.

I did some experiments about 3 years ago that showed that the M97xE's treble-tiltdown effect is solely a function of the stylus. The M97xE body sounds like the old M97ED if given an N97ED stylus. However, despite specifications that would indicate that the old M97ED and the M97xE have virtually identical bodies (700mH v. 650mH), in real life they are more likely to measure 800mH v. 575mH (@800Hz), still a small but noticeable difference, especially when compared back to back. So in fact it's the old M97ED that's more likely to tame the brightness of the SAS. And the less efficient pre-1973 cartridges with the old thick multi-piece magnetic innards tame it even more.

Keep in mind that this is in my system, with my particular samples of the M97xE (two bodies, one stylus) and M97ED (four, several styli).
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thanks for this great information, wualta. So you're saying the M97xE has a linear decline in freq. response from 1-2k Hz downard at 2 db/8ve? or a maybe linear from 1 or 2k Hz down to 10k Hz and then level, like a low-shelving EQ or filter, as opposed to a negative logarithmic curve? I really need to do some testing of my own, I still have much to learn. your experience is greatly appreciated, however!
 
dodog said:
noisemodule-

The first SAS I bought came with a little sticker/decal (tattoo?) with, I'm guessing, kanji writing on it (apologies if that is not what it is). The second one I bought didn't. It obviously has nothing to do with the stylus or sound, but it was a fun surprise. What was that thing, why was it packaged with the stylus, why did they stop packaging them? FWIW, I ordered both of my styli straight from JICO in Japan.
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probably this was one of JICO's annual "New Years Gift" campaigns.
 
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