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JICO SAS Discontinued

wualta said:
Do want to hear Seth's comment, but I can tell you that SAS brush pivots have removable caps just like the ones on a Shure brush, so for my too-floppy-no-dampy SAS I simply squeezed out a little 100,000 CSt diff oil into the existing oil on one pivot and that was sufficient. So the good news is that SAS brush pivots do let you modify/correct them. Unless they stick, and I have one of those as well. Haven't been able to fix that one.

The Shure and Jico pivots look different, and Jico didn't use a conductive pigment in their oil, but they work about the same way. To change the rate of fall of a Shure or Jico brush, get some 80k and 100k silicone diff oil, pop off the little caps that cover the pivots, and add/subtract oil until you get the fall rate you want. Shure says 1 to 3 seconds, as boreas mentioned earlier.
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Thanks for this Spike. And thanks to all the other people commenting on the dynamic stabilizer damping issue. Your feedback is very helpful and I will be sure to inform our engineering department of our user's experience.
 
boreas said:
The stylus Gary has listed is an elliptical for a V15 Type IV, not the HE that originally came with the V15/IV or the Micro Ridge that came along later. It and the V15 Type V for which the (V15)VMR is intended both have the small diameter shank but the VMR won't fit the V15 Type IV because the mounting cap for the type IV interferes with the stylus grip of the Type V. It's quite possible that the VN45 styli will fit the Type V without modification but I don't know.

Confusingly, there is another V15 Type V, the V15VxMR it's the final version of the V15 and is based on the "x" body of the M97xE (or is it the other way around?). The V15VxMR has the large shank.
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needlestein said:
Yes, that I knew. You can use an M97xE (N97xE) stylus as a downgrade on the V15VxMR. I suppose you could use the V15VxMR as well as the V15VMR stylus as a sort of upgrade to the M97xE. Although the shank is smaller, it slides right in and the plastic grips on the side hold it securely in place. I didn't realize that I got an SAS for my M97xE as well in the purchase of the SAS for my V15VMR--but it sounds very different in the M97xE. That caused me to wonder if the SAS for the M97xE is different, besides shank size, in order to bring out more definition. The VMR SAS in the M97xE really loses a lot of attack transient edge. That was surprise! The stock M97xE stylus doesn't sound this way at all. The original VMR stylus in the M97xE sounds very good, too, but not very different from the stock N97xE stylus and very different than how it sounds in the proper body. Lots of electronic voodoo going on here, I think.
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boreas said:
I'm not sure that sounds wise to me. The shank is what locks in the azimuth of the stylus. Having a loose fit on the shank might allow the stylus to sort of "rock" side to side, throwing the azimuth off.

John
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Just want to confirm the following:

VN5xMR SAS and N97xE SAS are interchangable. Technically speaking, they are identical.

VN5MR SAS not compatible with either VN5xMR SAS or N97xE SAS, as noted above shank sizes are different. It may be possible to fit the smaller shank into a cartridge designed for the bigger shank, but it is not recommended, at least not by JICO.

Needlestein, apart from the variation in shank width, the V15VMR and M97xE cartridges probably account for most of the difference in sound. The V15V has laminated pole pieces (aka laminated core) and lower inductance (I think) than the M97xE, giving the V15V a very flat frequency response. The M97xE has rolls off the high end above 10k Hz (please correct me if I am mistaken on the roll-off point). Here's a thread on the V15 series and their differences.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/shure-v15-versions-and-variations.432335/

My understanding is that all the SAS styli have a peak around 15k Hz due to mechanical resonance. This means the V15V paired with an SAS has an accented high frequency profile, which might account for the difference in transient attack you hear. The HF roll off of the M97xE combined with the resonant peak of the N97xE SAS give it a high frequency profile closer to Unity gain, though not necessarily flat.
 
Chrisxo55441 said:
from what i can find the HG (high grade) is a non export model sold only in japan, i got mine from a Japanese seller. i cant find any info that it is any different , a couple of sellers saying the export is inferior but nothing about why and the literature with it is all Japanese. the box and case do have HG on them though. i think your right probably the same.
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Don't listen to all that boo-boo. Domestic and Export versions are the same, just feature different packaging.
 
noisemodule said:
... The M97xE has rolls off the high end above 10k Hz (please correct me if I am mistaken on the roll-off point).
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Well, it depends on whose graphs you're looking at, but my ear, at least, seems to agree with the posted graphs that show a tiltdown instead of a rolloff, a gradual 1.5 to 2dB/octave slope from 1 or 2 kHz down to 10kHz where it flattens and goes to 20kHz, or simply continues straight down to 20kHz.

It's not quite like any other Shure I've seen, even the broadcast ones with a shaped HF response curve.
noisemodule said:
...The HF roll off of the M97xE combined with the resonant peak of the N97xE SAS give it a high frequency profile closer to Unity gain, though not necessarily flat.
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I did some experiments about 3 years ago that showed that the M97xE's treble-tiltdown effect is solely a function of the stylus. The M97xE body sounds like the old M97ED if given an N97ED stylus. However, despite specifications that would indicate that the old M97ED and the M97xE have virtually identical bodies (700mH v. 650mH), in real life they are more likely to measure 800mH v. 575mH (@800Hz), still a small but noticeable difference, especially when compared back to back. So in fact it's the old M97ED that's more likely to tame the brightness of the SAS. And the less efficient pre-1973 cartridges with the old thick multi-piece magnetic innards tame it even more.

Keep in mind that this is in my system, with my particular samples of the M97xE (two bodies, one stylus) and M97ED (four, several styli).
 
noisemodule-

The first SAS I bought came with a little sticker/decal (tattoo?) with, I'm guessing, kanji writing on it (apologies if that is not what it is). The second one I bought didn't. It obviously has nothing to do with the stylus or sound, but it was a fun surprise. What was that thing, why was it packaged with the stylus, why did they stop packaging them? FWIW, I ordered both of my styli straight from JICO in Japan.
 
dodog said:
noisemodule-

The first SAS I bought came with a little sticker/decal (tattoo?) with, I'm guessing, kanji writing on it (apologies if that is not what it is). The second one I bought didn't. It obviously has nothing to do with the stylus or sound, but it was a fun surprise. What was that thing, why was it packaged with the stylus, why did they stop packaging them? FWIW, I ordered both of my styli straight from JICO in Japan.
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I got one too, the kanji word for "sailing" ! :cool:

February 014.JPG
 
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Seth (noisemodule), I just want to add my thanks for all the time you're spending with us. It really is helpful and very reassuring as regards JICO's commitment to its products and its customers. It's very much appreciated.

John
 
dodog said:
noisemodule-

The first SAS I bought came with a little sticker/decal (tattoo?) with, I'm guessing, kanji writing on it (apologies if that is not what it is). The second one I bought didn't. It obviously has nothing to do with the stylus or sound, but it was a fun surprise. What was that thing, why was it packaged with the stylus, why did they stop packaging them? FWIW, I ordered both of my styli straight from JICO in Japan.
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I have a few of those too. It was a little omiyage from JICO.
 
My second N-95HE SAS stylus has shipped. That hurt going from a few days ago at $140 to $225. I just decided that it was indeed worth it.

Picture 1089.jpg

Spin on......
 
Just don't understand why folk want to jump on this SAS. Didn't Jico say it was working on an improved stylus? So why not wait for the new one? Kinda like spending bucks on a new car that's just been discontinued. Strange
 
tnmike1 said:
Just don't understand why folk want to jump on this SAS. Didn't Jico say it was working on an improved stylus? So why not wait for the new one? Kinda like spending bucks on a new car that's just been discontinued. Strange
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I guess you haven't heard it............
 
tnmike1 said:
Just don't understand why folk want to jump on this SAS. Didn't Jico say it was working on an improved stylus? So why not wait for the new one? Kinda like spending bucks on a new car that's just been discontinued. Strange
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Maybe not everyone thinks that "New!! Improved!!" will be either. I hedged my bets but hope that the new generation will exceed the former. I will still think I made a reasonable decision.
 
tnmike1 said:
Just don't understand why folk want to jump on this SAS. Didn't Jico say it was working on an improved stylus? So why not wait for the new one? Kinda like spending bucks on a new car that's just been discontinued. Strange
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Well this way Jico gets you to buy both. The discontinued one and the new and improved one.;)
 
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